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Follow the Money (https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/10palih/follow_the_money/)
posted on January 30, 2023 06:51 PM by u/mtraven
34

This thread is a treasure trove of pointers to various shady-sounding rationalist-adjacent orgs that were the beneficiary of FTX’s largesse: https://twitter.com/xriskology/status/1620015243224293376

Whylome.org, Lightcone Infrastructure, PARPA…sounds like it was a fun party until the money spigot ran dry (ie was arrested for fraud).

u/garnet420 12 points at 1675110718.000000

Pronatalist sounds insane, I don’t see why PARPA sounds “scary”, though.

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u/saucerwizard 4 points at 1675116665.000000
Makes me think "military applications" tbh.
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u/DELETED 5 points at 1675220298.000000
[deleted]
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u/garnet420 2 points at 1675229996.000000
> I can't find anything about a secret society called Dialog. 🤫🤐 It's s e c r e t
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u/SuppaCoup 6 points at 1675111310.000000
There's nothing wrong with pronatalism as an ethical position, I uphold it, but it does tend to attract weirdos from the eugenics and quiverfull types.
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u/MattiaShaw 28 points at 1675114180.000000
Pronatalist is so obviously a eugenic/white supremacist organization. They reject immigration and link to a race science paper.
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u/SuppaCoup 10 points at 1675117349.000000
Exactly, that org looks creepy af. For me being pro-natalist means I favor policies like universal childcare, extended leave after birth, free college, access to free contraception to encourage people to have kids at the right time, etc. I don't plan personally to have kids myself, but I think we as a society should work to make having kids as easy on people as we can. Mixing in any kind of racial science bullshit or anti-immigrant fearmongering is grotesque and any org that does it should be condemned.
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u/Citrakayah 17 points at 1675121104.000000
This is just standard welfare state liberalism; it would be pronatalism if you believed we needed a constantly expanding population (this is why the pronatalists are arguing we need one billion Americans and panic whenever birth rates decline below replacement regardless of the cause).
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u/SuppaCoup 4 points at 1675121463.000000
in the long run i'd like humanity to discard capitalism and the economy to be democratically owned, but yeah basically. I still think my stance is pronatalist it's just more moderate than the weirdos.
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u/Citrakayah 4 points at 1675122491.000000
~~You're still a weirdo, dude. You can't have a constantly expanding population. At some point you've got to either reach population stability or decline.~~ ~~And eternal population growth is just a fundamentally silly thing to advocate.~~
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u/SuppaCoup 5 points at 1675123930.000000
That's not my position at all. I just want to make life better for the people who have kids through social services and direct financial interventions-young parents in debt is a nightmare. It's pretty clear that if we make life better for people and give them more control of their reproductive destiny we will see a lot of people have smaller families. I don't think it would be bad if humanity's population on earth stabilized or went down somewhat over time, I just want people not to suffer from having kids. I still thinks that makes me a pronatalist in a loose sense in that I'm in favor of social policies that make having kids easier on people. And I am very opposed to trying to top-down force people not to have kids or forcing them to have kids, that's some nightmare eugenics shit. You and I literally agree on almost everything in discussion here and have a pretty meaningless disagreement about the use of a single label, I think calling me a "weirdo" is very unfair. People who are properly educated and given the right social tools and support can and will make the right decisions that let them have families that exist in harmony with the earth.
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u/Citrakayah 5 points at 1675124346.000000
> I don't think it would be bad if humanity's population on earth stabilized or went down somewhat over time The wording made it sound like you were saying "yeah basically" to thinking we need a constantly expanding population and one billion Americans.
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u/SuppaCoup 10 points at 1675125299.000000
oh i see, i'm sorry i was saying "yeah basically" to you characterizing my position as resembling welfare state liberalism not to the idea of endless population growth, my bad i don't agree with that. If I had to go into more detail, i'd like to see us transition into a more ecologically conscious mode of living rather than the weird messy structure we live in right now-I think that the permaculture/deep ecology framings are very useful for imagining a healthier, more sane way of building a society. What we have now has left us with a poisoned, deeply unequal way of living that's precipitating ecocide. The degree of collapse happening in the biosphere right now is insane. a well-built society leaves its people educated and capable enough to understand how to create healthy, sustainable families without any kind of top-down control of people having kids. I appreciate the strikethrough by the way. I think you all have shown me that this label isn't worth holding on to if it creates this much confusion given how poisoned it is by association with creeps.
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u/DELETED 15 points at 1675120109.000000
[deleted]
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u/SuppaCoup 0 points at 1675121226.000000
I think people having kids is a good thing, I feel like that's sufficient to make the label accurate. I think if you went up to most "bog standard interventionist welfare state liberals and asked them if they agreed that people having kids is a good thing they'd say yes. I'm not letting weirdos steal a label for a very normal attitude from me.
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u/DELETED 23 points at 1675122328.000000
[deleted]
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u/Arilou_skiff 2 points at 1675267507.000000
TBH, I'd have assumed it was just a response to antinatalism, and a way of saying "I'm not an antinatalist".
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u/VersletenZetel 3 points at 1675287067.000000
>Pronatalist is so obviously a eugenic/white supremacist organization. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/vu94rm/another\_city\_state\_with\_thielbucks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/vu94rm/another_city_state_with_thielbucks/) We had fun with these goofs a few months ago. Up until their dating manual on how to "train your spouse" and a website still had Lorem Ipsum text
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u/DELETED 6 points at 1675113378.000000
[deleted]
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u/Newfaceofrev 9 points at 1675114604.000000
Is there a natal-neutral position? Like, have kids or don't I don't give a fuck.
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u/wu2481632 15 points at 1675115017.000000
that is, in fact, the default position most people take
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u/edgarallen-crow 10 points at 1675117483.000000
I think this is just called "reproductive rights" lol. Everyone has the right to have kids or not have kids according to their needs and life goals.
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u/dgerard 2 points at 1675199078.000000
> There's nothing wrong with pronatalism as an ethical position when these guys use it, they mean only and ever white pronatalism
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u/dgerard 2 points at 1675199025.000000
"Pronatalist" turns out to mean "white pronatalist", i.e. Nazis
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u/muffinpercent 3 points at 1675115176.000000
I don't like Torres, but I also think "research which is too irresponsible for the government" sounds scary.
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u/dgerard 1 points at 1675199050.000000
> I don't like Torres yes yes I think we're clear on that by now
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u/muffinpercent 1 points at 1675228533.000000
Maybe *you* are, but I can't expect every user to keep up with context, can I? 🤷🏼‍♂️
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u/status_maximizer 2 points at 1675260233.000000
+1, not familiar with your view (link or tl;dr?)
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u/muffinpercent 2 points at 1675264914.000000
tl;dr: Torres is an ex-EA with a history of lying and a personal vendetta against some people in the EA x-risk world (some of whom might be actually shitty, I don't know any of them personally). I haven't written about this in any long form, just had a very short argument about it with dgerard in the comments a few days ago.
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u/BrentMaen 17 points at 1675119178.000000

the most effective form of altruism is to seize cryptobro’s organs and redistribute them to the poor & needy

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u/potatolicious 12 points at 1675124641.000000
Unironically yeah. There's a decent amount of evidence that direct monetary disbursements would do a lot more to materially improve lives than paying a bunch of terminally online think-tankers to sit around in their mind palace.
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u/DELETED 11 points at 1675124894.000000
[deleted]
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u/potatolicious 11 points at 1675125527.000000
Don't we already have that, it's called Hacker News.
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u/impeislostparaboloid 5 points at 1675139009.000000
Most of them accept crypto. So, yes.
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