Are rationalists officially right wing now? They’ve been lurching that way for a while but in the past at least they have tried to maintain plausible deniability.
after knowing HUNDREDS OF THESE PEOPLE IRL — probably my least favorite qualification — I think the accurate label is "libertarian-sympathetic center-left techno-neoliberal"
reasons:
* "libertarian-sympathetic" because they'll never go full libertarian, nevermind full ancap. some of the bay-bimbo/baybo types are legit scared of guns. like, any gun. they'll Say They Want A Revolution (millennial reference 🤫) — but when it comes time to do a heckin Mad Max they will buckle.
* also they are ABSOLUTELY MOGGED IRL by aggro homeless people. I was 100% of the time the 'bodyguard' when we were out on the town because they didn't have any idea how to actually respond to homeless guy heckling.
* they're unconsciously used to center-left policies and don't realize they support these, ESPECIALLY urban design and therapy. the amount of support for e.g. bike lanes (relative to expressed support for bike lanes) is huge, likewise with health insurance funding therapy.
* "techno-neoliberal" is key because they don't as predictably prefer those policies outside of the tech industry. within tech though, yeah, neolib af.
That's the good (well, better [well, less bad]) side of the community. But a lot of those people are really really fucking racist, too, it just never comes up because, well, why would it in a room that contains precisely the Techie Demographics And No One Else.
it may reassure you to know that I have a writeup (but don't know how/where to integrate it) on how much of LW has been and is lowkey racist, and more than that EXTREMELY classist
my ex fiancée is black and we tested this by posting the exact same thing I'd post and the way they reacted was radically different. they gave her a pass until it got too real, then they just described behavior that was typical for her family (as in cracking good-natured insults / calling BS) as generically "aggressive"
Amia Srinivasan has a fantastic paper on something like this. she doesn't say what I'm saying but it's in the same zone [http://www.pgrim.org/philosophersannual/38articles/srinivasan-aptness.pdf](http://www.pgrim.org/philosophersannual/38articles/srinivasan-aptness.pdf)
I dunno man. *I* identify as libertarian sympathetic center-left techno-neoliberal and I think these people are all right-wing dingbats.
Maybe I haven’t interacted with them like you, but I have met some in real life and Christ on a stick they are awful
And frankly, more than any particular political ideology, the difference between a rationalist and a normal person is the insufferable smugness and made up jargon.
well we might have different irl experiences on some of this but
> the difference between a rationalist and a normal person is the insufferable smugness and made up jargon
this 100% matches my lived experiences so I can at least corroborate that
>I identify as libertarian sympathetic center-left techno-neoliberal and I think these people are all right-wing dingbats.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
I felt kinda called out too, then I realized "all As are Bs" is a different statement than "all Bs are As". :-)
Bikes and walkable cities are coded as left-wing in America, but I don't think they're inherently left-wing the way racism is inherently right-wing. Plenty of conservative nutjobs enjoy a good trip to a European city.
right, in the context of their debates they're doing a zoning / anti-zoning thing. for full disclosure I am YIMBY/anti-HOA/somewhat anti-zoning because, having been poor-poor once (not Grad School Poor), "cities with lots of zoning" almost always means "cities I can't afford to live in".
to be transparent about my politics I think San Antonio strikes a happy medium of just-enough zoning, and our mayor has done a good job of balancing that. he had some of the more effective covid policies that got things done in spite of Abbott's insanity, and also used this to indirectly shut down some of the most exploitative strip clubs / bars in the city.
(he is also a jacked powerlifter which is completely irrelevant but a point I like to bring up contra the "left = weak" meme.)
but yes I think what you are getting at is true outside America. a sharp woman I know has lived in Syria for substantial life periods and has talked about its walkability and I don't think many people see Syria as a progressive paradise.
Plenty of the Northern European states have been moving markedly rightward (largely wrt migration issues) and none of them seem to be jettisoning their enthusiasm for cycling culture and walkable urbanism. That stuff folds into standard issue RW cultural exceptionalism as well as more overtly blood + soil adjacent / _Volksgesundheit_ sentiments as well.
@cashto (can I @?) got it right, but I'll add a few things
- they see "leftist" as a slur, likewise with socialist
- they also see "conservative" as bad unless you're doing some Chesterton's Fence thing about why you need to raise babies
- however, the true right wing chuds (i.e. people who would follow Carnivore Aurelius) alienate them also. one guy unironically called someone "degenerate" in the Austin discord and it was mocked for weeks, to the point of becoming an inside joke.
but I think there may be a third ground here that isn't covered.
outside of left/right, there are a lot of politics people call "schizo".
they are 100% that. overwhelmingly.
i think in practice rationalist politics are "neoreactionary", "neoreactionary but trans people are ok" (these are the ones who are "very left-wing!!") and "racist"
Center-left usually means, like, establishment Democrats here in the US, which
I think describes the politics of a lot of rationalists.
"Libertarian-sympathetic" modifies that. Like, wholesale rejection of any authority greater than the individual is a bridge too far, but they'll still rather skeptical on the efficacy of state action in specific areas or specific topics.
So that's why there are people who describe themselves as "left-libertarians", then turn out to be basically "ancap, but thinks that shooting homeless people for sport violates the NAP". When I first heard the term, I thought that's meant for someone reclaiming the original meaning of "libertarian".
I assure you that it is. Largely because the color you call orange barely exists over here, it was either that or let the word fall into disuse.
I also assure you that we call chips "fries" and crisps "chips". You'll just have to put up with such barbarisms, I'm afraid.
Words don't have inherent meaning but if a guy shows up in your town who starts calling iron "gold" while also having a 100% pure gold jewellery store, you might want to push back against that
The current dems being considered "left" is entirely deliberate to pin down the overton window, and it is entirely reasonable for the 'original' left to push back against that
They're like the definition of "scratch a liberal". It's amazing how perfectly Love Me I'm A Liberal nails it:
"An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally."
Though, for these guys it's probably more like ten degrees to the left of centre in public, 30 degrees to the right on their forums.
130 IQ is not genius. It’s gifted. And it is meaningless when it comes to success and happiness. I know cause I have an IQ of 132. And I’m not good at math or sequencing or life in general. Here’s why…. I scored 9s in all of the of the sections on the Wisc ( that’s the highest score) except one, where I scored a 2. Sure I’m smart. But I’m not smart at everything and if you can’t admit you have flaws and limitations then you become an insufferable douche and a miserable fuck.
right, that's my point, but also this is the kind of analysis I'm trying to avoid and discourage / maybe even stigmatize
there's no way getting this granular is good for your mental health. it's necessary for academic papers and neuropsych evaluations but idk, I don't think even neuropsychologists would want to think this way in their personal lives.
” … a sophomore behind me tapped me on my shoulder and said, “Hey,
Einstein, how many beers are in a case?” Not knowing, nor really caring
I said, “I don’t know, 12?” In a very Beavis and Butthead manner he
snorted, “Heh heh, it’s 16! Shows you how much you know!” I could only
think to myself, “Yeah kid, it actually does.” The truth is this young
boy was retarded. And I don’t mean that as an insult. I mean that
because it’s true. He was a mental retard. […] the reason he was
retarded is because it was in comparison to me. The truth was this kid
in all likelihood had a normal IQ of around 95. Not officially or
clinically retarded, but no genius either. Just a normal, typical piece
of Wisconsin trailer trash.”
I know you know this but I have to say it
... the sheer absurdity of saying "normal is inferior", a word that by definition means "neither inferior nor superior"
😭
Right in the abstract of the book:
> Whether you fall asleep during class, constantly ram heads with your boss, can't understand why people watch the Oscars, are an alcoholic, or are accused of having "ADD," having a high IQ can be a maddening experience.
This guy: "I have a serious mental health problem and I am refusing to seek treatment for it"
Also this guy: "people dislike me because I'm too smart"
Edit: in case it's not clear, everything he lists there is symptomatic of adhd, which is presumably why people told him that he has adhd. He also acts like he has adhd in that video.
my parents never let me know what my childhood IQ test result was.
they said it wasn’t a fit subject for kids to be comparing in the
schoolyard. that was wise of them, I think.
most of the world: “wow I’m 130 IQ? I could be a math professor? holy crap!”
way too many LW rationalists: “I’m only 130 IQ? does intelligence testing have a Red Tribe bias? epistemic status: unsure.”
Actual quote from a book written by a guy who can’t handle being called “normal.”
Is it Yud?
I’m like an LA 180
my parents never let me know what my childhood IQ test result was. they said it wasn’t a fit subject for kids to be comparing in the schoolyard. that was wise of them, I think.