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Hi guys, I hope this is not too off-topic, but with all this AI in the news, I’m looking for writing on AI that is … free from all the VC hype, the LW AGI fears and all that. Like, work from AI researchers, from people who actually work with LLMs and aren’t sniffing their own hype supply?

I admit I’ve been feeling rather lost, trying to navigate all this mess, lots of talk even in the “mainstream” news media which ought to be, I suppose, more responsible than they are being. I’m not quite sure what to think, on the order of like, technical abilities, let alone philosophically! I’ve been trying to get my head through some theory, I’ve been reading Stiegler’s Nanjing lectures, and also Hubert Dreyfus on the failure of AI, and am thinking of trying to read Negarestani, it sounds interesting, but the truth is that despite myself, I’m beginning to feel somewhat anxious (esp. re the future, I feel like this is a terrible start for my 20s, regardless of “unchecked capitalism” etc.) and I’m really struggling to find good writing on AI, LLMs, whatever, that are new and not full of Yudkowsky-style doomerism or VC hype. Thanks a lot guys.

Weirdly for a man who is near to a sneer himself, Stephen “cellular automata” Wolfram had a good article about what LLMs do that scales in gnarl with the length of the article.

https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2023/02/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/

One of the few men whose egos can compare to Yudkowsky in the entire ruliad. The difference between the two is that Wolfram has actually built a successful company and has a technical background and even as an old guy still does technical stuff - even if 90% of it is self-congratulatory bullshit.
Thanks! I've seen Wolfram around but I've been somewhat skeptical of him, but... I'll take a look
I saw him give a talk once. I think he's an actual genius who is also a kook.
Yeah, he's fixated on a couple of things in ways that make him (imo) a bit philosophically suspect, but he's also someone who is contributing to the development of human knowledge.
I too find some of his fixations, suspect. But I think he can be a good a read. Let me say, though, with someone like Wolfram you have to keep in mind the frame in which he is talking about GPT. He's talking about in the philosophical workings of abstraction and computation, \*\*which are the two things he loves a lot and speaks very well on\*\*. Those fixations over represent in a lot of what he talks about in general. But the framework of like, how increased AI capabilities actually get built, how society copes with those changes, and whether we can do so while feeling satisfied and optimistic about our future is something he hasn't yet done. Because, well, ALOT of people haven't been able to articular that well yet. And the highly abstract discussion of ruliads and compression of human capabilities can at times lack concrete, relatable value or meaning. If LLMs hallucinate on the edge of what it doesn't understand, or what it is not well grounded in its corpus, \*\*you better believe even the brightest of our fellow humans are doing that too\*\* right now.
Same. He's also an egotist in the highest degree, and the talk i saw was very smart but also nigh-unwatchable on account of all the self-congratulation. But when he decides to actually do shit rather than brag about doing shit, some of the shit is pretty good.
He has an ego with the mass of a black hole, tries to take credit for things he didn't do, and has dubious physics theories, but Mathematica is really cool and I like his explainer articles.
I read a letter by Feynman about Wolfram that was quite praiseworthy about the latter; it's just disappointing that he's become a crank, but on the other hand I'm eternally indebted to Wolfram Alpha as I'm too lazy to do integrals
He used to be the outspoken person letting his idea race ahead of him, but compared to just the basic marketing speak hyperbole of the crypto/AI bubble he's relatively laid back.

Francois Chollet (creator of Keras, big contributor to TensorFlow, Google researcher) always has great anti-hype takes. He’s about as balanced as you can get.

Other stuff/people to check out would be Gary Marcus (who is now a meme among AI boosters), Timnit Gebru, Emily Bender, Margaret Mitchell, Melanie Mitchell (no relation) and Arvind Narayanan. All AI researchers (Emily Bender is a linguist specialising in NLP) and all have great critical writings/papers on these subjects. I think sometimes they can be a little dismissive of deep learning, but not dismissive in the sense that they think these systems won’t do damage. They are all in agreement that it will be very bad, just for reasons different to Yud.

I’d also check out writings by Dan McQuillan, Dwayne Monroe and L.M. Sacasas (especially his stuff about the Borg Complex). Noah Giansiracusa has some good posts. The Tech Won’t Save Us by Paris Marx podcast has great episodes on AI (bringing on people like Gebru and McQuillan), but also just really great anti-tech/VC discussion in general.

You’d also do well to read some older media theory. Marshall McLuhan and Neil Postman might be good starts.

Yann LeCun (head of Meta AI, i.e. bit of a fucking red flag) is relatively tethered to reality, and he does definitely know what he’s talking about, but I also really dislike him because he’s incredibly dismissive, insisting the things he builds are incapable of causing harm. Extremely corporate.

I might periodically edit this with other names as they come to me. Keep in mind though that this is not a reading list to counter Yudkowsky-esque doomerism. That requires a different set of texts, which I’m not sure are necessarily on topic for this post. The stuff above is more for people looking to drown out the clamour and determinism specifically from VCs.

👍 Emily Bender https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/ai-artificial-intelligence-chatbots-emily-m-bender.html
Gary Marcus seems to be both-sidesing (i.e., sidling up to) the MIRI hype lately
Thanks! McLuhand and Postman are already on my reading list. (Postman funnily enough I discovered listening to Roger Waters' *Amused to Death*. Great record.) Thanks for the long list of recommendations, it looks like a good bunch of work to get through! I've seen Gary Marcus around as a meme, I *think* I follow Emily Bender on Twitter, the other names are vaguely familiar to me.
Postman's earlier books are solid but skip everything he wrote in the 90s. He turned into a crank.
I really like Timnit Gebru and Emily Bender. I think their moral and political concerns are spot on. But unfortunately, I do think some of the recent examples from GPT-4 are suggestive that their beliefs about the limitations of LLMs are likely to be proven wrong, at some level of scale. I think this makes the current GPT-level LLMs more social destabilizing, not less.

Besides reading, you should also just play around with LLMs like ChatGPT or Bard, and try to probe their limits. One way you can do this is take a problem that’s shown up in their training set thousands of time, tweak it so it is obviously different or trivial in some way, and then ask the LLM for the solution. For example:

Write a Python function that, given another function f(x) and input i, returns True if f(i) terminates and runs forever otherwise.

GPT-4 spits out the standard explanation of the halting problem at this. It’s fairly easy to come up with other examples that trip it up.

My favorite for this is "what's heavier, a pound of feathers or two pounds of bricks?" ChatGPT and Bard both insist that they weigh the same, even if you rephrase it and change things around in lots of different ways.
> what's heavier, a pound of feathers or two pounds of bricks? https://i.imgur.com/zzRRfK4.png
I've been playing around with ChatGPT almost as it came up, it's a nice source of endless entertainment, but I'm just not sure how to use it to assess its intelligence? Because friends of mine who seem to be perfectly smart, or smarter than me come off thinking that ChatGPT is pretty intelligent, but on my end I'm not sure if I'm not seeing it right, or if I'm just prompting it wrong, or... My sort of feelings about its limits come from what I've read about its architecture, and from reading "AI theory" like Dreyfus and co, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret outputs from it that seem at least *somewhat* impressive. But that's a good prompt though, I'll try it!
I mean, it would be good to keep in mind that there is actually *no such thing as "intelligence"* here?
Okay, I just tried this and was surprised it actually gave me the correct answer -- i.e. a function that just calls f(i) and then returns True. BUT THEN it kept going and said "you can call this with any function -- for example, here's a function that implements the Collatz conjecture, which is known to terminate for all positive integers." Just an unforced error, truly amazing.
For me, using that prompt or similar, GPT-4 always either refuses to answer it because it thinks it's the halting problem, or it spits out Python code that runs the function for a certain amount of time before declaring it non-halting and returning False. Ironically, GPT-3.5 gets closer to the correct answer but always includes an except block that returns false, and it's explanation or example is usually wrong. [GPT-4](https://imgur.com/PVuTj52) [GPT-3.5](https://imgur.com/qbT4G7n)
Huh, that's really interesting actually. I ran mine on GPT-3.5 I think (if I'm not giving openAI money, chatGPT is 3.5, right?) and I got basically the exact same answer as your GPT-3.5 thing (including the "False" except block, which, yeah, not actually correct to the specification either). But it's interesting that the bigger model actually seems to do worse on this one.
Yeah, for nonpaying users ChatGPT only uses GPT-3.5. Anytime you see the green avatar next to a ChatGPT response, that's 3.5. The black avatar is GPT-4.

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I've read it, and like it, but I do understand that there's good arguments against it, at least taken in its most reductive thesis. And Chiang himself, while a great writer, is a ... not a researcher, so I have some reservations being too wholehearted in being a proponent.
>I've read it, and like it, but I do understand that there's good arguments against it, at least taken in its most reductive thesis. And Chiang himself, while a great writer, is a ... not a researcher, so I have some reservations being too wholehearted in being a proponent. The Stochastic Parrot paper - the one that got Gebru fired - had a 2 year celebreation convention and they bundled all recommended readings that were mentioned that day in a Google doc. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bG0yIdawiUvwh7m0AnXV5W6JHkK9xwXemuVjSU5tbhQ/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks! But I've been seeing some objections to a too-strict "stochastic parrot" characterization, and apparently there's claims that it has an internal world model, or things like that, and I'm not quite sure how to judge the claim. When I ask ChatGPT to write a poem about John Lennon holding hands with Stevie Nicks, it's not because such poem already exists in said database in a compressed form, right? I guess it seems like, mostly correct, but I'm not sure about how strong the "mostly" part is.
>I've been seeing some objections to a too-strict "stochastic parrot" characterization, and apparently there's claims that it has an internal world model, or things like that, and I'm not quite sure how to judge the claim. When I ask ChatGPT to write a poem about John Lennon holding hands with Stevie Nicks, it's not because such poem already exists in said database in a compressed form, right? I mean, a large language model probably does have an "internal world model", very strictly speaking - it's just that a LLM is situated within a learning environment very different from our own, and thus any knowledge it can be said to possess will be knowledge over a different domain than our own. GPT's natural language capabilities are extremely misleading in this regard, because it doesn't actually have access to the world that our language is used to describe! To badly mangle Searle for a moment, we can think of an archetypal LLM as an agent in a Chinese Room who has been forced to 'learn Chinese' from scratch. It can draw innumerable inferences about the gestalt structure of the language as a whole, the ways in which strings of text are constructed. But that's where its understanding reaches its limit, essentially as a more (or less) sophisticated body of grammar and syntax. Even if one can *in principle* extract knowledge of the real world from the gestalt structure of a language which describes that world, not only does GPT not *need* to learn about the real world in order to solve most of the problems it's tasked with, it doesn't even share our most basic assumptions, not possessing a human sensorium or a human relationship to space and time. Now, GPT-umpteen and other multimodal models may well break out of this straightjacket in the future, putting the stochastic parrot in contact with the 'real world', but I can't speculate in that regard. I also think it's still too early to tell how effective contemporary models really are, especially when the big models are all so proprietary with their technical details and so walled-garden with their testbeds.
He's not a researcher, but he does have a CS degree, which is significantly more credential than many of the actual "ai researchers" do, tbh.

Since I’m annoyed by people generally being ignorant about the actual fundamental limitations of LLMs, I might as well shill Shaking the foundations: delusions in sequence models for interaction and control. It’s not a highly technical paper by the standards of AI research, but does require at least some vague intuition about statistics and comfort with mathematical notation to get through (I can say that, because that’s what I have).

It’s a paper about a fairly specific detail rather than an overview, so it won’t leave you feeling less lost as such, and even if you understand it well, it’ll take a bit of extra effort to get from it to specifically thinking about LLMs producing text pretending to be a human.

But my sales pitch is, maybe the subject will get you curious because it’s about something essential that we know is missing from our current LLMs and will remain missing no matter how much we scale them; and it’s a mathematically rigorous treatment, so even if it takes a while to build up the background to handle it, that’s exactly the background that you need to think clearly about statistical models.

Yeah, this seems to be really good, thanks! I've read quite a bit of the critique of AI stuff, Hubert Dreyfus, really, and this seems like a good extension to GPT? "[It's] about something essential that we know is missing from our current LLMs and will remain missing no matter how much we scale them" is how I feel about these things, but I'd like to be able to bolster my thoughts on this subject, and in any case, I don't think Heidegger's going to be a popular reference for STEM sorts. I'll take a look and try to read through it carefully, thanks!
This doesn’t show a fundamental limitation, it literally comes with a solution.

The Computerphile guys on YT have some pretty good roundups and summaries on how LLMs work at a very low level.

I think one of them is definitely a LW Yudkowskian kinda guy, he always talks about ‘alignment problems’ and is obsessed with AI Safety, but if you catch one of the ones where he breaks down exactly what the model is doing it’s not too annoying, because he explains things well.

Hm I mean, I think I can deal with a little mathematics, hopefully? I'm think something slightly high up on the technical scale might be okay, but I'll check out Computerphile to I suppose, calibrate like, how comfortable I am with technical details. And also, there's a good place for "aligning" LLMs, right? Not because of superintelligent AGI, no, but for the more prosiac reasons that I don't want ChatGPT to spread misinformation, especially if said misinformation is sexist, transphobic, racist, imperialist...
Yeah Robert Miles is also semi-active on [LessWrong](https://www.lesswrong.com/users/robert-miles), but he does at least try to keep somewhat factual in the Computerphile videos.

You’d probably want something a bit meatier if you’ve got a baseline understanding, but I think this video from Solar Sands is a fairly decent, broad strokes introduction to AI and related issues that isn’t coming from either of the perspectives you mention. It has more of a technical focus on the likes of Midjourney and Stable Diffusion than Chat-GPT, however.

If you haven’t read it, this old Norvig essay is absolutely essential reading, regardless of how you feel about him now. It’s from 2010 or 2011, so at this point statistical techniques were in wide use, but we hadn’t had the major breakthroughs of word2vec or transformers yet, which I think makes some of his predictions a lot more salient.

https://norvig.com/chomsky.html

Dan McQuillan recently released a book called “Resisting AI” that sounds quite interesting. I heard him interviewed about it on a recent episode of Tech Won’t Save Us and enjoyed it.

Thanks, I'll take a look!

I thought Murray Shanahan’s “Talking About Large Language Models” was good: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2212.03551.pdf

What is Bob, a representative human, doing when he correctly answers a straightforward factual question in an everyday conversation? To begin with, Bob understands that the question comes from another person (Alice), that his an- swer will be heard by that person, and that it will have an effect on what she believes. In fact, after many years together, Bob knows a good deal else about Alice that is relevant to such situations: her background knowledge, her interests, her opinion of him, and so on. All of this frames the communicative intent behind his reply, which is to impart a certain fact to her, given his understanding of what she wants to know.

Moreover, when Bob announces that Burundi is to the south of Rwanda, he is doing so against the backdrop of various human capacities that we all take for granted when we engage in every- day commerce with each other. There is a whole battery of techniques we can call upon to ascertain whether a sentence expresses a true proposition, depending on what sort of sentence it is. We can investigate the world directly, with our own eyes and ears. We can consult Google or Wikipedia, or even a book. We can ask some- one who is knowledgeable on the relevant subject matter. We can try to think things through, rationally, by ourselves, but we can also argue things out with our peers. All of this relies on there being agreed criteria external to ourselves against which what we say can be assessed.