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https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1660227831488745475

After 20 years of trying and failing to stop the AI apocalypse, this genius lets us know that an education would not have helped.
Someone should tell him that he could still go to college. He doesn’t have to stick with the current grift.

“I had the dumbest ideas about the way the world worked when I was in college” it’s almost like most people go to uni in their late teens to early twenties, an age where coincidentally most of us have very silly ideas, who would have known

This is also why all the breathless "a college student had a dumb opinion, what does this mean for the future of America" articles are dumb as shit. If you step back and remember that "college student" means "19-year old", it's unsurprising and unconcerning that one of them might have a dumb opinion.
College is often also a place to experiment with dumb ideas and see how they fail. There was a course on 'creating and maintaining a business' which every year got the documents of the past year (so you could learn from the past, but also you had to learn when the past lessons were bad) and the teachers admitted if the documents ever were perfected they would go missing. And even disregarding the whole 'ideas' angle, not everybody is properly self motivated (nor do they know what they don't know) so uni is a good way to get people learning.
can you elaborate about this course? was this a famous example in media circles or something they did at your uni? jw
Something they did at my uni. Basically a way to prepare CS students to work in the business world, students did actual real projects (of about 6 months start to finish) for real world companies, there was an inhouse IT department (run by students (supported by the real IT department) providing the hardware for the the students, there were budgets, older year students were the managers, meetings etc etc.

I like* how Aella shows up in the replies and then Yud immediately makes it a sex thing

*do not like

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To be fair, I think Aella only thinks of Aella in terms of sex too
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Yes, esp she is clearly not just trying to be the sex worker of the Rationalists, but actively participates with the thought experiments so she is a Rationalist sex worker.
Maybe she just knows how to work her market? She’s got a couple of surveys essentially generating content ideas for her lol
Aella is one of the most damning characters in the rationalist world whenever it comes to the self-congratulatory huge brain "credentials might not signal true intelligence!" take. She goes around peddling this like crazy while sharing extremely flawed psycological studies, and refusing to take responsibility for misrepresenting their results. Then gets out there saying "you all are berating me because I don't have an education!" while conveniently ignoring the pretty obviously correct criticisms. She is doing a disservice to those who don't have formal education that are trying to be taken seriously. Beyond that, a lot of rationalist types defend her like crazy because other people who are considered "smart" or "high status" in that sphere like Nate Soares come to her defense, citing some weird bastardization of bayesian reasoning as to why her incorrect studies can still be useful sources of information. Takes like two or three clicks to find out that Nate and Aella have a sexual relationship. Such a weird and corrupt group..

I went to an elite college and majored in philosophy. Can confirm they taught intellectual humility, clear and concise writing, and a deep appreciation for 2000 years of cumulative learning and culture. Which Eliziers writing so clearly lacks.

Yeah I will never understand, as someone who attended college, how these people on the twitterverse will go online and say they didn't find college valuable or didn't feel it made them smarter in any useful way. You would have to be so extremely disengaged with your education not to come away a dramatically better thinker.
Reminds me of Ben Shapiro bragging that he got through law school by telling his professors what they wanted to hear while privately disregarding all of it.
I saw that you mentioned Ben Shapiro. In case some of you don't know, Ben Shapiro is a grifter and a hack. If you find anything he's said compelling, you should keep in mind he also says things like this: >If you believe that the Jewish state has a right to exist, then you must allow Israel to transfer the Palestinians and the Israeli-Arabs from Judea, Samaria, Gaza and Israel proper. It’s an ugly solution, but it is the only solution... It’s time to stop being squeamish. ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: novel, history, healthcare, sex, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)
These bots harm their own cause which is grating because Ben certainly deserves the mockery but not like this.
Why won't you debate me? ***** ^(I'm a bot. My purpose is to counteract online radicalization. You can summon me by tagging thebenshapirobot. Options: covid, dumb takes, feminism, sex, etc.) [^Opt ^Out ](https://np.reddit.com/r/AuthoritarianMoment/comments/olk6r2/click_here_to_optout_of_uthebenshapirobot/)

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Oh that was you? I was about to post this. Great burn.
It was not meant so much as a burn. At Caltech everyone has close to perfect test scores, and you go from being head and shoulders better than everyone at your high school to being just average. It is a humbling experience and a valuable one too.
It's a valuable experience, and I think pretty much any reasonably good university could provide it for Yudkowsky, but it's an insuperable narcissistic injury to a certain personality type.

The punchline: the guy he’s replying to went to business school with plans to join the NBA, and spent the whole time partying instead of studying. He specifically went in with the goal of not learning anything valuable!

> Almost no one agrees on what I’m saying. Which is a good sign that going to college is an extremely powerful meme lOOkS lIke i TOUcheD a NErVe

I learned a metric fuck ton in my ‘elite college’. Anybody who doesn’t either a) wasn’t trying or b) was there on mummy and daddy’s dime and wasn’t trying.

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OMG, Feynman and Delbrück? What a time to be at Caltech!
To be fair, I learned that the core curriculum for my major was filled, especially in the upper years, with only very tangentially related, difficult, time consuming, and most importantly completely useless abstract math. About seven semester classes of it. Nobody can say I'm wrong because a few years after I left, the faculty near-unanimously voted away the bullshit parts of the curriculum. I don't regret forgoing those requirements for practical alternatives, which sadly prevented obtaining a degree. If I knew what I was doing I could have self-directed that crap into a much better statistics bachelors instead of trying to do compsci in the 80s at a theory-heavy school where undergrads were an afterthought. Much because of my peers bitching about it, things are so much better now.
What degree was that, and what’re the courses? I ask because my experience was the other way around, the practical info coming first in intro classes but the more abstract (but ultimately formative) stuff coming later.
Compsci in 1985 Carnegie Mellon had to be a math B.S., because they hadn't made an undergrad CS curriculum yet. I can't remember the names of all seven of the abstract math classes I ditched for stats, cogsci, and grad CS classes mainly, but like I said, they got rid of them shortly after I left. What was formative about it for you? Did you go into cryptography?
Apologies for the late response. I’m a former mechanical engineering student who transferred to physics after the first semester, and if I could do it over I’d transfer to mathematics haha. Computer science makes sense to me, I bet it’s strange to be an old school CS major.
Back in the 80's at my R1 college, the undergrad teaching award was a prestigious honor. At my R1 grad school, it was the kiss of death for tenure. I double majored in geosci and applied math and if there's one complaint I had about my math classes it was 1. The prof teaching complex variables wasted a whole month on some stupid basketball/sphere analogy and gave about a week's worth of coverage to something that as soon as you saw it you went apeshit about how useful it would be (and would be something I'd see again and again in grad school). 2. The psycho guy who taught us PDE's from a 2-3 inch graduate level + book on PDE's in a course designed to last a quarter. I was doing 40 proofs a week in that class. I was trying to take Stats for the Physical Sciences as an unnecessary elective and as soon as the 2nd problem set rolled around and I realized I had no idea about anything on it, I immediately went to my guidance counselor and dropped it (the only time I ever dropped a class in college). The guy was a maniac and a sadist and he obviously enjoyed it. 3. Oddly enough, one of my favorite classes was taking a quarter class on fungi my senior year in order to satisfy a biosci requirement. That and a year long graduate sequence in geophysical fluid dynamics.
Agreed, it's also worth noting though at these 'elite colleges' one of the first things you notice is just how many people are in categories a) and b) that you describe.

This reply is making me torn between wanting them all to take creative writing courses and suffer and not wanting them to inflict more writing on the world: “If you are getting a degree in creative writing, sure, but there are things that genuinely require years of studying to get anywhere even remotely close to frontier: math, physics etc.”

I actually took creative writing in college (twice! my poor parents!) and as a naturally good writer at a school with an excellent English department, those were two of my most humbling classes. Not only do you have to write a good story by the deadline, you often have to read it out loud and have it critiqued by everyone, and there is almost always at least one person whose work blows yours out of the water. Even in literary analysis coursework, the gap between perfection and whatever you’ve crapped out that week isn’t so glaring. IMO, like most of the fields they disrespect, it’s much harder to self-teach and get “anywhere even remotely close to frontier [sic].”

Yudkowsky likes fiction (he's written some and references it all the time) and I've imagined an alternate universe in which he satisfies his need for validation by starting his own crank outsider literary movement instead of the AI stuff. It wouldn't have nearly the social reach and financial backing, but it could be just as culty and much less vulnerable to outside criticism.

As a dropout myself i sneer at this post

me too. Dropping out made me take 17 years to finish a PhD.

The innate human impulse to bully bad nerds. I don’t care if you’re a doctor or illiterate, I simply know. Yud probably isn’t a bad guy, he just fucking sucks.

>probably isn’t a bad guy What about all the sexual harassment and assault that happens in his social circles that he does nothing about
I'll reserve judgement here but the "math pet" (🤮🤮🤮) shit bodes *extremely* badly for him. People change, but still. Want my honest opinion? I think Aella should fuck him and spare humanity from them both. I think they should both log off forever. They shouldn't reproduce.
You missed the second part of the sentence there. It isn't just about his own actions but also the responsibility he has for the community he is the thought leader off. Not that I disagree with your post, which will not happen because we are already dead and being tortured eternally.
We are only born in order to be tortured. I hope Yud and Aella aren't (rank) sadists like my parents. I still talk to my parents regularly btw. I love them both. They know what they did. My Dad likes golf. My Mum likes gardening. I no longer do anything I don't truly want to do. I feel awful, but that's life. Know anyone cool in Amsterdam who'd let me stay there rent-free? Lol. Only semi-joking. Just going to fucking Exarcheia if I can get together the money for a ticket. Might be spiritually Greek idk
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Same in Melbourne. Sorry for assuming, semi-remembered you were Dutch or something jfc I gotta puke brb E: disregard the above. Didn't actually need to puke as it happens, but I smashed my landlord's toilet anyway. Not sure if I enjoyed it. I would genuinely do a war crime if I saw him right now. (Parody) [Minecraft] {Reddit} E2: can't remember how to do strikethroughs but the above is all jokes/pranks. Fuck Reddit
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Never tell anyone exactly where you live. I am sad to learn that things are so bad in the Netherlands. Perhaps there is no escape. Can't make sense of that tilde-infused shit right now, but I'll read it again in the morning and try to make sense of it. Thanks. I have been *off* speed lately. That is what has happened. I am very sorry.
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I'm brain-damaged due to Australia/boredom/(meth)amphetamine but I intend to write something excoriating about the Australian/world economy at some point. I don't use anything interesting except alcohol and (prescribed) dexedrine these days. I feel tired. Maybe we all do.
I'm imagining a kid being raised by those two and feeling very sorry for someone who does not exist. They'd probably end up like Elon's daughter and just refuse to speak with them again after a certain point.

College can be a waste of time for people who would be happier in the trades, and there are a fair number of 18 and 19 year olds who could do with a gap year waiting tables or whatever. But for pretty much everyone else it’s a very good thing.

It’s absurd that the US doesn’t have free public university for everyone who can get in. I went to a semi elite private college for a year, then finished my education at a state school. Maybe I lucked out, but a few of my professors and a couple classmates at a small public university were literal and absolute geniuses.

Maybe the most valuable thing about university for me was getting humbled in a hundred different ways.

the lazy potato chips eater got great excuses for doing any work

Pssshh writing HP fanfiction and AI fanfiction totally counts as a job!