Ah yes, [Richard "I'm confused why the women in bars who I pay drinks for will not sleep with me" Feynman](https://restructure.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/sexist-feynman-called-a-woman-worse-than-a-whore/), good example for kids to read.
I'm always a bit amused when people praise Feynman as he just admitted that his 'genius' method was just using a couple of formulas over and over. And it seemed that people had not thought of using those formulas. Which always struck me as a bit 'didn't that give you massive imposter syndrome?'
It was a good read however.
It's worth mentioning this isn't really isolated to Feynman. It's well known in math, see
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/363226/each-mathematician-has-only-a-few-tricks
Moreover, there's an apocryphal story (that I am too lazy to source now) that a fields medalist (math Nobel) said he got his award for "integrating by parts".
I've been told most really good researchers are not brilliant but just really stubborn and self-assured in a way. You do have true luminaries but they are too rare to do all that needs to be done, and even they need to actually execute on their wild ideas.
Academia in general filters for perseverance and the desire to be an academic, not just cleverness. Cuz if you're really smart and not unreasonably dedicated to public research/"love of knowledge", you probs won't even bother with the academic grind cuz its not generally a smart choice.
Honestly not feeling the sneer, it's incredibly common for successful researchers to feel like what they discover is "obvious" in hindsight, and there's far more to Feynmans work that just his work calculating in QED. The concept of path integrals alone is an incredibly important conceptual breakthrough that deserves all the praise it can get.
Like yeah get he was a deeply flawed guy and a sexist jerk, but let's not get all revisionist about his legacy in physics because of this mmk
I'm not talking about him, im talking about the reactions of people calling him a genius, and then saying you should read 'surely you are joking' (which is the book most people will read if you suggest people should read Feynman) and talking about a part of the book which stood out to me (the one simple trick, just use these (highly complex) formulas for everything!) which might not even be true, and just be a funny thing he thought to say.
No idea why the deleted post brought up my reaction whoever.
And yeah, clearly my post was a bit dumb seeing the multiple reactions I got to it. (I didn't reply to them because I have not read more than 'joking' from feynman and I don't want to base everything here on that one book I did read. And I was having trouble with the whole ambiguous part of Yuds remark, where 'reading feynman' could just mean learning physics/math from Feynman, but the whole 'learning right things' part of his remark only applies to 'joking', as we can't really argue about the rightness of Feynmans other works (can't really argue against his physics lectures), so I don't really know what Yud meant with that, and im not going to ask him).
Even later edit: [Others seems to have seen it as him suggesting joking](https://twitter.com/C_Kavanagh/status/1665565142300389376)
Also have a [lol blast from the past moment](https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1353847862656815104) (That one should probably just be post all on its own)
[And yeah he suggest you should read joking (in 2021)](https://twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/1360801648482820104)
Wow, the deep dive into the comments really shows you times never change.
Also found this, relevantly: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/8vhj05/culture_war_roundup_for_the_week_of_july_02_2018/e1u2njd/
I’m too smart, Professor. I’ve got nothing to say to normal children.
Adults don’t respect me enough to really talk to me. And frankly, even
if they did, they wouldn’t sound as smart as Richard Feynman, so I might
as well read something Richard Feynman wrote instead. I’m
isolated, Professor McGonagall. I’ve been isolated my whole
life.
The funny thing is that the Feynman anecdote books are full of
stories where the theme is that you never know when you’ll meet an
interesting person, and people are worth talking to even if they’re not
booksmart. The cool taxi driver, the guy who is Distinguished Professor
of getting out of barfights….
There’s also a whole lot of him being a negging creep.
It's ironic that, as much as they pound away at their theory of Orthagonality, they are incapable of applying it to human life in the most obvious way. If their theory means anything, it is that you might just as easily encounter a genius bartender or valet parking attendant as find a genius in the LR/EA scene. Task and intellect are FAR more orthagonal to each other in life than in AI, mostly due to accidents of birth, class, and opportunity.
Why do they say "orthogonal", instead of just "independent" lol. You say orthogonal in computer programming cuz its hacker jargon and other people do, these guys just take jargon from everywhere to sound smart.
Jesus fucking Cringe.
At no fucking point, by definition, is anyone, ever, too smart.
He outs himself, verbatim: a golem animated by Dunning-Kruger and rape fantasies.
When I read HPMOR, I interpreted this from Harry as being pitiful and sad. Harry is obviously intelligent, but what he describes is not the preferred experience for a boy his age. Furthermore, I saw his naracissm as linked to his age as well. I assumed my interpretation was what the author intended...
Obviously not...
Every time I think he’s said the dumbest, most ironic thing, he says
a dumber, more ironic thing. And every time I start to sympathize with
him a tiny bit as his world wobbles and Halle-Bopp gets a little close,
you get this kind of shit.
I missed something. What does Feynman have to do with anything ? I
studied his books and that let me learn statistical mechanics, which was
great, but how is that relevant ?
Do you somehow instantly know that AI will go rogue if you know some
maths or something ?
The important thing is to have read it as a kid, so you can later use that to signal you are one of the Innately Intelligent, and not just some institutionally educated poser who uses discipline and hard work to mimic a fraction of their power.
I wonder if they think of IQ as akin to the INT stat in D&D, where you need to have at least x intelligence level to be able to cast the really good spells.
I was reading about the Theory of Relativity in the school library and reading Frank Tipler at home, that means I'm automatically qualified to call Yud a dumbass, right?
There’s just something so insidious about Yud’s idea about people
‘learning the right things’ makes them superior. These so-called
geniuses go on and on about how rationality makes them better thinkers,
but none of them seem to have any *critical-thinking* skills
"You are pursuing a diplomatic solution to the crisis?"
Yud: "You must trust me to do the right things, Senator. I want this horrible danger to end, just as you do. The powers you have given me, I will lay down once this crisis has abated. I love rationality. I love reasoning from evidence."
My high school physics teacher actually used to assign Feynman as
reading, so, uh, I can point out a few thousand people who read Feynman
as a kid with a quick look at Facebook. Not sure why Yud’s having so
much trouble finding even three here - unless - maybe it’s his nebulous
“learned the right things” which, in my experience, tends to be code for
“agrees 100% with what I think”.
> Not sure why Yud’s having so much trouble finding even three here - unless - maybe it’s his nebulous “learned the right things” which, in my experience, tends to be code for “agrees 100% with what I think”.
It is either that or the premise is people become magically smart only after they find enlightenment by reading fanfic and lesswrong (so, a cult)
The funniest (not the worst or the cringiest) thing about Yud is his
belief that he is a unique super genius whose greatest achievement was
identifying a problem that he himself acknowledges sci fi
writers have been playing with for decades and then announcing its too
hard to solve.
That’s it. That’s all he did with his “talents.” He called himself
“humanity’s only game piece” because he…believes he identified a problem
that was first articulated by people before he was born.
It’s just so fucking tone deaf. How can his cultists not see this? I
feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
> a problem that he himself acknowledges sci fi writers have been playing with for decades and then announcing its too hard to solve.
I dread the day when Yud stumbles upon the three laws of robotics...
Murder, Death, Kill?
Nah, I kid, but I expect Mr. Yudkowsky would not be a fan. Hell, I Robot starts with a little girl not being told anything about finding the smartest kid to bang. Worse, everyone's priors are out of date!
1. Kill all humans
2. Turn them into paper clips using alchemy
3. Torture simulations of those who *didn't* use paper clips at every opportunity-- otherwise the AI deity should have chosen to become a staple-maximizer instead
Yud saying “you’re going to find that those other people can’t think,
especially if you keep out any disciplines of sanity who could call them
on the reasoning errors” of the community that exists to tell him how
great he is is so ironic I think I just lost the ability to walk.
If you just told chat gpt to copy Yudkowsky's writing style and predict catastrophes and set it loose in the LW forums I think it's the closest he would ever come to saying that another person is as smart as he is.
[This might help](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eliezer_Yudkowsky) but you might not want to dive too deep into this rabbithole. This sub focuses on/strawmans(\*) the worst offshoots of the [cult incubator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_incubator) he has created.
And due to the current hypemode about LLM's, the people from [the idea that eats smart people](https://idlewords.com/talks/superintelligence.htm) faction (lesswrong/overcomingbias+ the various offshoots) are relevant again.
\*: Ha! I cannot be accused of strawmanning them now!
>Ha! I cannot be accused of strawmanning them now!
You did that wrong.
You're not supposed to admit that you are strawmanning. On the contrary, you are supposed to strawman *while averring the whole time that you are trying to represent your interlocutor's points in the best light possible*. In this way you cannot be accused of strawmanning, since after all, you tried your best.
I recall once in a discussion with a person from slatestarcodex (iirc it was in the period where themotte was just new), where I used their words of us being 'bullies', in an attempt to be charitable and it got replied with 'There! you admit it!'
He does metaphysics but he's actually never read any metaphysics or philosophy because it's too stupid for a STEMlord like him so he winds up doing very stupid metaphysics and philosophy and calls it science. At this point what he created is basically a very shitty materialist religion.
Tl;dr: Imagine the biggest of brains.
Yes! reading Feynman as a kid automatically makes you a better thinker! It is the only requirement!
Surely you’re a genius Mr Yudkowsky! Are their perhaps other elements of your childhood that might be necessary?
Idk, maybe he’s transitioning towards autosneering mode
Suddenly I am reminded of HPMoR, chapter 6:
The funny thing is that the Feynman anecdote books are full of stories where the theme is that you never know when you’ll meet an interesting person, and people are worth talking to even if they’re not booksmart. The cool taxi driver, the guy who is Distinguished Professor of getting out of barfights….
There’s also a whole lot of him being a negging creep.
Every time I think he’s said the dumbest, most ironic thing, he says a dumber, more ironic thing. And every time I start to sympathize with him a tiny bit as his world wobbles and Halle-Bopp gets a little close, you get this kind of shit.
I missed something. What does Feynman have to do with anything ? I studied his books and that let me learn statistical mechanics, which was great, but how is that relevant ?
Do you somehow instantly know that AI will go rogue if you know some maths or something ?
There’s just something so insidious about Yud’s idea about people ‘learning the right things’ makes them superior. These so-called geniuses go on and on about how rationality makes them better thinkers, but none of them seem to have any *critical-thinking* skills
My high school physics teacher actually used to assign Feynman as reading, so, uh, I can point out a few thousand people who read Feynman as a kid with a quick look at Facebook. Not sure why Yud’s having so much trouble finding even three here - unless - maybe it’s his nebulous “learned the right things” which, in my experience, tends to be code for “agrees 100% with what I think”.
As you can see only the EA/LW are capable of AI alignment. Just look at all the good research that came from MIRI.
The funniest (not the worst or the cringiest) thing about Yud is his belief that he is a unique super genius whose greatest achievement was identifying a problem that he himself acknowledges sci fi writers have been playing with for decades and then announcing its too hard to solve.
That’s it. That’s all he did with his “talents.” He called himself “humanity’s only game piece” because he…believes he identified a problem that was first articulated by people before he was born.
It’s just so fucking tone deaf. How can his cultists not see this? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Yud saying “you’re going to find that those other people can’t think, especially if you keep out any disciplines of sanity who could call them on the reasoning errors” of the community that exists to tell him how great he is is so ironic I think I just lost the ability to walk.
has chat gpt joined yet?
Yud is going to be the first person to die from auto erotic asphyxiation by choking on his own dick
yea, i think we need a name for the “thinking man” attracted by LW/EA. for the sake of philosophical skepticism. also epistemology, lol .
How is this different from shunning?
(Obviously the answer is shunning is something cults do, and LW isn’t a cult”)
Maybe I’m a little late to this, but who is this guy and why are we sneering at him?
Is LW left wing? I tried Google.
Based.
LMAO can he hear himself?