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Robin Hanson: "Why was the holocaust wrong? Not enough Nazis" (https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/8h3hue/robin_hanson_why_was_the_holocaust_wrong_not/)
posted on May 04, 2018 11:19 PM by u/DELETED
32

Nevertheless, Robin endorses an endless list of bizarre moral claims. For example, he recently told me that the main problem with the Holocaust was that there weren’t enough Nazis! After all, if there had been six trillion Nazis willing to pay each to make the Holocaust happen, and a mere six million Jews willing to pay 00,000 each to prevent it, the Holocaust would have generated .4 trillion worth of consumers surplus.

source

u/Snugglerific 28 points at 1525491956.000000

When Bryan anCaplan is the voice of reason in a conversation, something has gone apocalyptically wrong.

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u/DELETED 19 points at 1525493235.000000
>I confess that I take anti-cloning arguments personally. Not only do they insult the identical twin sons I already have; they insult a son I hope I live to meet. Yes, I wish to clone myself and raise the baby as my son. Seriously. I want to experience the sublime bond I'm sure we'd share. I'm confident that he'd be delighted, too, because I would love to be raised by me. I'm not pushing others to clone themselves. I'm not asking anyone else to pay for my dream. I just want government to leave me and the cloning business alone. Is that too much to ask? truly
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u/Snugglerific 14 points at 1525493833.000000
Dude's about 1 inch away from being a [Seinfeld bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVDT1ARABvE).
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u/vistandsforwaifu 13 points at 1525539800.000000

Hanson is the kind of guy who has “most likely to murder someone for , then argue it increases aggregate utility” next to his picture in the highschool album.

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u/Snugglerific 9 points at 1525543149.000000
Murdering for fun, profit, and utilons.
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u/DELETED 5 points at 1525569656.000000
[Exterminated jews create lives](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_broken_window)!
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u/WikiTextBot 3 points at 1525569663.000000
**Parable of the broken window** The parable of the broken window was introduced by French economist Frédéric Bastiat in his 1850 essay Ce qu'on voit et ce qu'on ne voit pas (That Which We See and That Which We Do Not See) to illustrate why destruction, and the money spent to recover from destruction, is not actually a net benefit to society. The parable seeks to show how opportunity costs, as well as the law of unintended consequences, affect economic activity in ways that are unseen or ignored. Some conventional economic measures, such as GDP, can exclude the negative effects of capital destruction, while including the economic activity of its replacement. Thus, breaking a window may raise GDP, but harm the economy. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
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u/DELETED 15 points at 1525497747.000000

lol us communists should unironically use this reasoning on capitalists when we’re working out who goes to prison. “well there’s a lot less of you guys so just pay us 10,000,000 dollars each and we’ll simply exile you instead of imprison you”

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u/DELETED 15 points at 1525481572.000000

[deleted]

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u/Myrdradek 18 points at 1525486041.000000
An economist's version of utilitarian reasoning, maybe
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u/DELETED 8 points at 1525481934.000000
I don't think the next one attributed to him, I think it's just a BC thought experiment. He's also not talking about utility, he's talking about economic efficiency. It's not really that different in principle but it's a lot dumber to defend. The thought experiments aren't any different and it's kind of funny how Bryan's "counter example" is just as bad as Hanson's actual point.
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u/DELETED 4 points at 1525490548.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 4 points at 1525490698.000000
The examples are identical. Like the logic is exactly the same. He's just making the idea of economic efficiency more clear in the second one. Money is used and not utils for both the holocaust thing and the Hannibal thing.
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u/DELETED -12 points at 1525481890.000000

I condemn the Nazis because I’m a Judeophile and Ayn Rand fan. So on this particular topic we actually agree.

However this does not solve the problem of objective morality not existing.

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u/Myrdradek 18 points at 1525486047.000000
okay dear
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u/Snugglerific 18 points at 1525499003.000000
> Judeophile You do realize that philo-Semitism is a cover for anti-Semitism right?
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u/DELETED -6 points at 1525500099.000000
For some jealous idiots, yes. But not me. Please read my post at r/HardcoreRationality where I defend Ashkenazi Jews from a consequentialist point of view. Basically the idea is that Ashkenazis contribute a lot to humanity and hence are great. Through the free market and the free market of ideas Ashkenazi contributions naturally benefit the rest of humanity. Don't ever try to use your old neurotypical stereotypical boxes of views to box me in, lol. You will never be satisfied. Instead when you actually read my stuff you will always find something unusual that does not fit into normie patterns. For example I do reject sexuality just like typical MGTOWs. Yet I don't blame feminism for the problem and also reject both misogyny and traditionalism. There is no NT pattern in autistic thought. My ideological opponents include both the left and the right. In fact it includes almost all humans because I always have something to disagree with..anyone. LOL.
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u/Snugglerific 23 points at 1525501692.000000
OK if you're going to play that card, thank you for condescending to me, as a non-neurotypical Ashkenazi Jew. I appreciate it. There's nothing I love more. As for your post, it is a great example of what I mentioned above. Yes, Jews may be tribal nepotists out to swindle the goyim, er, sorry "advance their own interests at the expense of everyone else," but at least they did some science and they're good at counting our shekels right?? It's the most rank form of fetishism. Fuck off, anti-Semitic asshole.
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1525521502.000000
Come on! It is the first time someone actually gives me this factually inaccurate label. In fact I'm one of the people who highly defend Jews and Israel on r/SSC. Nowhere did I actually say that anything contained in antisemitic accusations is actually factually accurate. Instead I made a strong argument that even if they are all factually accurate antisemitism remains a stupid idea. All these "can"s are conditional. But why can't antisemitic propaganda make me antisemitic? Because I completely couldn't care less about morality. Antisemites claim that Jews are evil. I see their propaganda and say, "lol if this is true that's quite an achievement. I want to do the same regardless of whether Jews are actually doing that." Yeah and according to antisemites I must be even worse than Jews. But do you think I give a shit? Nope. Most antisemites haven't realized that their stance is in fact a mirror of social justice. Just replace "whites" or "Muslims" by "blacks" and "Jews" by "whites" you will actually get something indistinguishable from social justice. If antisemites of either the White Nationalist variant or the Islamist variant truly reject social justice they need to reject their own variant of it, namely antisemitism. Vice versa. Well, tribal people are fucking incapable of recognize their similarity to their hated outgroups. LOL. Econ leftism and traditionalism are in fact similar to each other in the sense that both are moralistic and rejects the free market and selfism. Neither works in maximizing prosperity. Only the free market and selfism work. This is something lunatics such as antisemites will never get.
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u/brulio2415 9 points at 1525541993.000000
>But why can't antisemitic propaganda make me antisemitic? Because I completely couldn't care less about morality. To provide you some possible insight here, saying "I don't hate Jews because I'm not bothered by the moral implications of admiring them" is, well... That's a fraught way to talk about it. In the same way you don't want to be boxed in by neurotypicals, maybe Jewish people don't want to feel boxed in and categorized by your perceptions of them. The fact that you are so insistent on it just compounds things.
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u/Snugglerific 12 points at 1525542926.000000
Also comparing Jews to imperialists and colonists for a double dose of bigotry.
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u/DELETED -2 points at 1525548235.000000
Because imperialists and market-dominant minorities are both hated and tend to actually leave some positive legacies in a society. Most people hate colonialism while Nazis hate market-dominant minorities. However as usual tribalists fail to see cross-tribal similarities. This strongly cross-tribal comparison is in fact fair. There is a reason why Rome and Napoleon left some positive legacies that lived beyond their empires wherever they went regardless of how harsh they sometimes were.
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u/DELETED 0 points at 1525546424.000000
Most forms of Jewish behaviors condemned by antisemites that aren't actually fictional are just normal trader/intellectual behaviors. Some among them are distorted depictions of legit Jewish success. For example I really fail to see how Jewish entrepreneurs are inherently worse than Chinese or Arab ones for example. Well that's because all are in fact good for humanity. As for Jewish promotion of leftism well Jews are also overrepresented in right-wing movements that aren't antisemitic so "Judeo-left" is likely just a natural consequence of Jewish overrepresentation in intellectualism which itself is a natural phenomenon instead of any real attempt by Jews to "corrupt" the world. More importantly there is no unified theme in the so-called "Jewish ideologies" (i.e. ideologies promoted by Jews). More importantly some are explicitly anti-Zionist. I really fail to see how organization at the level of an ethnic group antisemitic conspiracists claim to exist is in fact possible given that there are lots of self-hating Jews and Jewish SJs who seriously disrupt Zionism. As for Jewish control over the world it is hard to imagine how it could actually exist. Well since 1948 Jews do rule over a tiny portion of the world, I mean..Israel. ;) However that is very far from global control. As for foreign ZOGs I just fail to see how they could actually exist. Why? Because pogroms against Jews easily happen unlike real revolts against real rulers. It is much harder to get rid of Gaddafi or Saddam compared to "der ewil Jooz hu kontrol Urop!". Hence it is unlikely that ZOG is in fact a thing. Some Israeli lobby, yes (but doesn't the Armenian lobby also exist?). But nowhere remotely close to control.
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u/brulio2415 6 points at 1525548817.000000
You are ignoring the point I actually made. Please consider taking your foot off the gas pedal for a bit to re-examine how you've decided to push this pet issue on other people. I think you're critically misunderstanding a large portion of the pushback you've received on this and many other issues
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u/DELETED 0 points at 1525549142.000000
Sure. But there are indeed no such thing as Zionist Occupation Governments. Otherwise it should take a brutal civil war to "oust the Jews". We never observed that. Nazi rose to power in Germany without a civil war ironically proved that Jews never actually controlled Germany. Similarly Jews never controlled Poland, Russia or Hungary. Period. Jewish rule over Muslim countries similarly never existed because after 1948 Jews escaped from these countries instead of removing some "ex-puppet who no longer obeyed Jews".
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u/vistandsforwaifu 9 points at 1525543730.000000
Have you considered that your understanding of antisemitism might be as shallow as your understanding of everything else? You could be eating antisemitic ideas whole hog and not even realising it's happening because it doesn't comport with your idiosyncratic definition not based on anything that happens IRL. edit to add: I mean if you find yourself at the point where you're thinking bullshit like "this propaganda validates my world view" you're pretty far along the road.
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u/DELETED 2 points at 1525545821.000000
I belong to a tribe (not going to reveal which one) with similar socioeconomic conditions as Jews. Hence I consider any attack on Jews to be something that can lead to an attack on myself. Antisemitic propaganda is basically either about complete nonsense (e.g. muh ewil Joos pwisen muh goyy vellz!) or about normal successful trader behavior (e.g. muh ewil Jooz kontrol da markat en Veimar Jermani! (OK have you considered that this may simply be a consequence of Jewish competence?))
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u/DELETED 6 points at 1525611188.000000
[deleted]
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u/_vec_ 6 points at 1525624820.000000
No, it's autists. It's always autists. (The above should not be construed as implying that any other autists anywhere share this clown's worldview. It's a tribe of one, as far as I can tell.)
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u/noactuallyitspoptart 10 points at 1525540297.000000
I believe you were told to fuck off, you anti-semitic fucking arsehole.
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u/DELETED -2 points at 1525541002.000000
Does ad hominem work in a rational discussion? Check my post history then if you think the term "antisemitic" applies to me. Yes, I'm a fucking arsehole and misanthrope. However I'm not antisemitic. Fuck humanity. However Jews indeed deserve to be less fucked than the rest of humanity.
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u/noactuallyitspoptart 11 points at 1525541230.000000
This is not a rational discussion, you tiresomely disgusting foolish child.
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u/DELETED -3 points at 1525541780.000000
So you are being irrational lol. "Muh emoshiuns r moar emportent den faqz!" I'm one of the few people who strongly defend Jews and Israel on /ratanon. Never mind. I will continue to side with Jews and Israel and irrationalists such as you need to fuck off.
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u/noactuallyitspoptart 12 points at 1525541830.000000
The antonym of "rational discussion" is not "being irrational" you stupid person. It frightens me how highly you people think of your cognitive capacities.
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u/Snugglerific 11 points at 1525542968.000000
>I will continue to side with Jews Yep, just like you're doing now. Good job. I am feeling very sided-with right now.
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1525547572.000000
Oh I see. I don't in fact buy into the "Jewish facts" antisemites claim to be true. I just support an even stronger claim that even if we assume that they are all factually accurate antisemitism still can not be justified.
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u/DELETED 4 points at 1525610860.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1525611487.000000
I call antisemites jealous idiots because they indeed are jealous of legitimate Jewish success and are too stupid to find any explanation for legit Jewish success other than "muh ewil Jooz khav a konspiracy!" Hence it is both accurate and descriptive.
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u/DELETED 3 points at 1525611643.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1525613128.000000
>You're an actual idiot. Why? In what sense?
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u/DELETED 5 points at 1525613396.000000
[deleted]
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u/WikiTextBot 1 points at 1525613404.000000
**Not even wrong** The phrase "not even wrong" describes an argument or explanation that purports to be scientific but is based on invalid reasoning or speculative premises that can neither be proven correct nor falsified. Hence, it refers to statements which cannot be discussed in a rigorous, scientific sense. For a meaningful discussion on whether a certain statement is true or false, the statement must satisfy the criterion called "falsifiability"—the inherent possibility for the statement to be tested and found false. In this sense the phrase "not even wrong" is synonymous to "nonfalsifiable". *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28
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u/wedidthetimewarpagay 12 points at 1525540758.000000
this is the unintentionally funniest depiction of that sub ever
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u/DELETED -6 points at 1525481543.000000

You typed “Robin hanson nazi” into google. I don’t know how the rationalists will ever recover.

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u/DELETED 14 points at 1525481989.000000
oh no much worse, I used to browse Bryan Caplan stuff.
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