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For reasons that have to do with a language barrier, the prestige of an oxford professorship and certain continental prejudices, Nick Bostroms Superintelligence was discussed in a course at my University. I was intrigued by the weirdness of it and ended up writing my Master Thesis on it.

Lurking in this sub for half a year has helped me a lot in orienting myself on the topic. Especially in showing me that Existencial Risk Philosophy largely consists in intellectual money laundering the delusions of Big Yud.

My thesis turned into a very elaborate sneer, with a very nice outcome.

So thanks a lot to all of you.

Good luck! I did that when I was forced to write a paper on Pinker’s Better Angles. The professor was not amused, but I will admit that I really was pissed to have to pick apart Pinker’s stupid thesis and it showed. (One of the margin notes criticized an argument I made by mistakenly attributed China’s one-child policy to Mao—who had been dead for 3 years upon the programs implimentation, and who had believed into the 1960s that “the more people, the stronger we are.” It was only in the 1970s that china’s leaders began seriously considering unchecked population as a problem for the nation. Just proof that sometimes tenured university professors are as sloppy as reddit commentators.)

>I did that when I was forced to write a paper on Pinker's Better Angles. Did you go to Bill Gates University or something?
LOL. You know, how willing so many schools are to pander to corporate philanthropists, you may very well say that I have (we all have).
I'd get fired from BGU then because I use [The Graph](http://www.edge.org/images/sp-Slide011.jpg) (not to be confused with The Chart) to teach how not to create a graph. It manages to be wrong on every level -- bad data collection, bad sampling, bad interpretation, bad visual presentation, etc.
Argh, they couldn't even choose a font size that fit "Societies" on one line. That thing is terrible on so many levels and I'll never forgive you for making me see it.
First semester undergrad in literature consisted entirely of writing about recently published bestsellers.
I could enjoy that, maybe a little. For a very brief period I really wanted to do some kind of "paraliturature" study of science fiction. And (working in a library) I know of a few people who do YA lit and fan studies kind of stuff. But I imagine that it depends entirely on what kind of bestsellers you're forced to read. I'd hate something like a reading list of NYT bestsellers---a list of people patting themselves on the back for being cheerful, white liberals. But cheap nonfic sounds like hell---and Pinker is very well it's shallowest level.
Yeah, I love me some paraliterature, even more than I love me some pataphysics. I have a (small) collection of dictator lit (Gaddafi's short stories), Karadzic's poetry, Khomeini's poetry, one of Hoxha's memoirs (probably the best one, "With Stalin", his vaguely homoerotic account of the three times he met Stalin). There was a column in The (fucking) Guardian called, appropriately enough, "Dictator Lit", in which the columnist patted himself on the back over and again for seeing how abysmal the prose was, for being a cheerful, white liberal. The same thing happened when the BBC dug up Karadzic's poetry years and years ago, and had their Serbian translators do a rough and ready translation. Of course, they assured their readers that though it was only a rough and ready translation for news purposes, the original Serbian was just as poetically barbaric and meritless. Never mind that Karadzic was writing within a long demotic tradition of violent Serbian war poetry - The Great Satan *must* of liberal necessity be brusquely shown to have no value, no interest, and certainly no history or context, to be fundamentally artless: nothing must be salvageable or be of interest, destroy it, take it out of my sight. *We must be saved from our own uncertainty and complex guilt*. No defence of Karadzic, and not an argument for "free speech", the way the above might be twisted, but ***come on***. How self-satisfied do you have to be, as an idle consumer of state media, to read the BBC assuring you that poetry in a language you will never even consider learning is as barbaric in English (and it isn't *that* bad in English, charitably read as a rough and ready translation) as it is in its own context and **just go ahead and believe them**. What I want is a proper writer like Misha Glenny to at least give me a *report* on the work itself, not some fucking jobbing (jobby?) journo telling me "oh yes the translators all agree its awful". Fuck off. The course itself was all of that kind. It was especially egregious because I'd taken a year out after school before university, but that school had a brilliant literature dept. who taught me so much deep theory, and although sure, I didn't write my A-Level literature paper on Thomas Mann, I wrote a complicated assessment of what an "ending" is, comparing Catch-22 with Martin Amis's "Time's Arrow". But now I'm being asked to write about fuck I can’t even remember. It was dreadful. All because I went to a university in a place with a renowned education system which is, in particular, renowned because it’s especially good at producing spoon-fed hard workers who can provide a useful lower-middle-class labour army for London to trade on top of. C’est la vie en rose de Cherbourg
[deleted]
I mean there is absolutely no question that Pinker has presented scientific work dishonestly since he started writing books. I usually use the example of *The Blank Slate* alongside Orr's excellent politely vicious review thereof in the NYRB and the subsequent exchange in the letters pages between the two dudes, in which Pinker really really shows his true colours against Orr. But somebody pointed out to me semi-recently that - and I'd forgotten this - even in *The Language Instinct* his account leans extremely hard on sub-Chomsky polemic to put this non-existent group of "Blank Slatists" in the kangaroo court docket. Might have been /u/snugglerific?
Language Extinct at least has a good exposition of Chomskyan linguistics, but Pinker should never be trusted to accurately represent his opponents, ever. In this case it is something called the "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis," which allegedly says that language determines thought and perception. I learned this in cognitive science courses as well, so it's a general problem not confined to Pinker. Then I had to read some Sapir and Whorf in anthropology, and there is no such hypothesis whatsoever in their work. Also unmentioned by Pinker is modern work on linguistic relativity by folks like [John Lucy](https://www.jstor.org/stable/2952524?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents). [Tomasello](https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a92a/41c2669e7787c09e4162239919e352b7d3c8.pdf) also wrote a lengthy review of the book.
Aha, I have heard of that hypothesis before and I am unsurprised it is an incorrect interpretation of their work. What elements of their work do you think made people read that into it?
[Whorf's friend formulated the idea after his death.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lee_Whorf#Posthumous_reception_and_legacy)
>In this case it is something called the "Sapir-Whorf hypothesis," which allegedly says that language determines thought and perception. Well shit. Looks like I've been given the wrong secondary sources. Fortunately I've not thought about Sapir-Whorf since the middle year of undergrad when I briefly moved towards linguistics/history of language/language and cognition over literature because I was fed up with the latter (big English dept with a surprising amount of linguists for a dept specialising mainly in poetry). My understanding was that there are traditionally the strong and weak version, represented each by one of the two.
The "strong" version has always been a straw man. Neither of them ever believed it. If anything it was the domain of racialist and nationalist variants Romantic philosophy, which did not separate culture, language, and race. One of the main projects of Boasian anthropology was to distinguish and separate these three concepts. Sapir was driven to debunk linguistic determinism in part because of this. (Ironically, Sapir was the most interested in individual psychology of all the Boasians despite being a target of modern psychologists.) Both of them could be said to believe in the "weak" version, but formulated as a hypothesis, it is incredibly vague. That is not entirely unwarranted, because Whorf was a scattershot writer. Neither of them ever clearly laid out any definitive "hypothesis" as it's frequently taught. This is why I only trust the primary sources and disciplinary historians at this point. This is a particularly egregious example, but misrepresentations abound.
If as a layman I want to study linguistics and related fields, should I stay away from Pinker? What would be a good starting point anyway?
Read the Language Instinct for an easy overview of Chomskyan linguistics, just be aware that his characterization of its critics are straw men, like everything else he writes, and the evo psych speculation is fairly unfounded. A starting point depends on what you want to look at, and if you want standard linguistics or linguistic anthropology. It's easier if you have a grasp on some of the basics of things like phonology, morphology, etc. Linguistics is not my strong suit so you are probably better off with one of the ask subs.
He attempts to use archaeology in The Graph, but ends up doing nonsensical shit like comparing Mesolithic sedentary hunter-gatherers (Site 117) to agriculturalist Plains Indians (Crow Creek) building fortifications and equating those to all Pleistocene hunter-gatherers, while also equating death tolls within a site to general population estimates. So the math itself doesn't even make any sense. It would be very difficult to come up with a more fractally wrong graph, outside of Gorka's thesis at least.
>Just proof that sometimes tenured university professors are as sloppy as reddit commentators. That's what you get for expecting a sociologist to know history.
Whoop whoop. And college republicans think they've got it bad.

+1 for the flair

Is there a copy up publicly?

Yes, copy please!
Not yet, am looking into it.
Got a book deal for it, so I can´t provide public copys at this time. ​ But I guess it will be pirated once it is published. (It is all in german though. I\`ll do an english translation sometime next year)
oh, well done!

Get at me when your sneer is Dreydeggerian pessimism.

Nice. I enjoy a good sneer but I don’t think I could sustain that for an entire thesis.

I finished my Master's diss a week ago, which is essentially a dissertation length sneer at the way certain people abase their own epistemic faculties to arrive at a pre-ordained conclusion as to how the economy works. I was kinda surprised by how hard it makes doing actual creative work. When you're working somewhat dispassionately, even if you don't really know whether your conclusions are correct in the end, you've got a lot less to juggle. But when you *know* that you're right, and you're writing against somebody you know isn't just *wrong* but *obviously* wrong it's really hard to put everything in there and all the time check yourself to make sure you're not going further than you should. I had an image in my head, a lot of the time, of Chomsky writing his Skinner review, and ending up with the mess of good insights, bad readings, and over-active intelligence that that was. The diss itself ended up being just such a mess, so I don't know it'll be received. I was pushing so hard on just writing the blasted thing that I barely had time to properly cite or format the thing, and frankly didn't cite or format it as well as I should have, and I know I'm going to be marked down badly for that (it didn't help that I couldn't extend my deadline further because I was moving out of my flat over the two days following submission). All the ideas are still there, so who gives a fuck, but I can't bear to look at it even more than with previous work. I had a series of anxiety attacks over the last week as other people took selfies of themselves on facebook with their nicely done sheaves of paper clipped together with proper cover sheets bearing various university crests and titles in the right font and had to unfollow several very nice people for a while to decompress (I submitted in my laptop's standard font, no cover sheet except to declare that the work was mine, etc., typos and errors of judgement galore, bibliography only citing the works crucially discussed, and in-text citations probably lacking in most places - didn't have time to cite newspaper articles mentioned in passing etc.). Gah! Hope /u/meadowbottom had a better time.
I also had the mandatory mental breakdown while I wrote my dissertation, but I was lucky in that it happened relatively early. Had to move back in with my parents for a while. By the time I finished, I had sorted myself out somewhat. After I handed it in, I still found some typos and Errors in the printout I kept for myself. But in the end that did not have too much of an impact. It had some influence on my grade, but I´m still happy with it. Maybe you will be okay too? Also you seem to have tackled a much bigger topic than I have. But I feel you regarding that constant pressure not to go to far. I had to delete entire pages in which I went on a tangent on the religious elements of capitalism. I felt that it is so fucking obvious that this plays a role in this whole AI-God thing, but I would have needed much more time to elaborate that properly. What do you do now to calm down? I went on a two week hiking trip after turning it in. And congrats for finishing it, you are a free person again.\^\^
It's not as big as it sounds. Like you I was focusing on one small part of a particular "subculture", indeed in the end one paper. To the extent that it was "critique", it was "bottom up" rather than "top down" critique. So I started with the particulars and moved outwards, rather than tackle big issues like "ideology", so the "God" of capitalism didn't really enter into it (though of course any good Theorist could spy that lurking in the background). One ambitious follow-up project in the year I now have *definitely* not in academia would be to tidy it up as a proper article, and then follow it up with a journalistic partner article looking at the history of the paper and its reception around the world (as an economics grad pointed out to me after I finished, in academic economics it didn't have that much impact, but it was cited all around the world by politicians and so on). The paper was "Growth in a Time of Debt" incidentally. The same day I finished a friend of mine came to stay in my city at the start of a UK tour he's doing playing guitar. Two days after that the lease ran out on my flat. So we did a bunch of drinking and playing guitar and throwing up in bushes. I got into London today and I'm hanging out with family and friends. I've got some spare cash and time so I'm spending about a month unemployed, going on holiday with some family etc. while applying for jobs and finding a flat back in my university city (where I live). I'm aiming to decide whether to apply for a full PhD starting next year by October. Thanks for the kind words!
Oh, and listening to a ton of [Arabrot](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq2R-UUtxcU) (great video) Oh, also, since interested in Bostrom. Check out the Cambridge equivalent of his existential risk centre at Oxford, "CSER". I met a guy called Adrian Currie (excellent philosopher, and great drinking partner) this year, who's doing a post-doc there. I said over drinks that I'd been worried about meeting him because of the reputation of the Oxford equivalent of the Cambridge centre, and he said something like "oh yeah we generally try to market ourselves as the more reasonable version of Bostrom's stuff".
I will look into them. But do they also buy into the \`societal phenomena are irrelevant, there are just coordination problems and individual morals´ approach? This bugs the whole approach to Existencial Risk I see from Oxford. Even when they talk about non-imagined risks.
I don't really know their work in detail, but Currie is a sensible guy, basically.
Hey, well at least it's done now! You don't have an extra revision period? At my school, you have to turn in the penultimate draft at a certain date, but you get at least one more revision period of a week so it can go through the ProQuest submission process. Technically, this is supposed to be for basic formatting errors, but you can change the file you uploaded at any time so you could theoretically upload an entirely new thesis within that week. I had to debunk some of the patriarchs of my niche in mine, but that is mostly because I have access to a comparatively monumental amount of data they didn't. They had some stuff worthy of sneers, but my thesis was mostly structured around building up a new interpretation of the data. I also have the advantage of them being dead now.
I don't know. I've hit a wall of depression as of the last few hours so I'm just replying to people telling them to fuck off. I did what research I could, and found what existed wanting, and found what I did wanting too. Formatting-wise I never really knew what I was supposed to do because I was too concentrated on either lying in bed trying to forget the inevitable, drinking, or writing off the inevitable. But yeah, it went in, and I won't look at it again. I don't know. I had the flood of emotion at about 6 hours and 7 days ago, and now I'm finally letting out the fear and anger. I don't know. I just want to be able to let myself sleep. https://youtu.be/_czPQAEUJ0Y?t=8m39s
Definitely check about the revision period. I literally got a whole extra week because I put a page number on the copyright page.

I’ve come to appreciate the weird duality that exists on this sub, where Yudkowsky simultaneously is a crank who is taken seriously by virtually no one in academia, and also all concern for Existential Risk (but especially in AI) in academia is an outgrowth of his widespread, cultish influence. Even I.J Good and Turing were corrupted (likely as the result of a certain acausal robot god, to be entirely fair).