No, I Will Not Debate You: "There are some stupid mistakes that only very smart people make, and one of them is the notion that a sensible argument seriously presented can compete with a really good piece of theatre"
(https://longreads.com/2018/09/18/no-i-will-not-debate-you/)
posted on September 19, 2018 05:50 PM by
u/Epistaxis
58
u/zhezhijian54 pointsat 1537381972.000000
It’s not just being smart–it’s also a particular kind of
shelteredness, the sort I’d expect from someone who grew up in a nice
suburb. My dad is smart, having a PhD in physics and all that, but as a
Chinese man he had a very different experience, and consequently, a very
different outlook on life. The Chinese Communist Party sent him off to a
labor camp and tried to kill his grandfather, and he lived through the
Cultural Revolution. Plus, he was born right at the end of WWII, and he
grew up acutely aware of the horrors of the Japanese invasion.
He definitely does not believe in the power of civil dialogue. He has
a very cynical, “might makes right” worldview. I think, unfortunately,
it’s one reason he voted for Trump–that lack of faith in humanity makes
him find bootlicking a tad too congenial.
I don’t want to say that people who grow up in Western suburbs have
no problems, because they do. Many of them are more severe than we would
care to admit. I think that the current system of relentless ranking and
grading is very psychologically harmful; most people are on their
screens too much; Western society has a lot of alienation; it’s always
bad to be female, so on and so forth–I could go on for quite some
length. Anyone who grew up in a rich suburb will know their fair share
of people who have severe cases of depression and anxiety that don’t
seem “deserved.” For instance, I went to a very highly ranked public
high school, in a terribly posh and comfortable suburb, where kids would
self-injure if their grades weren’t high enough, and teen suicides are a
regular occurrence. I find the phrase #firstworldproblems stupid,
unempathetic, and deserving only of contempt.
But, growing up with material comforts and protection from the
organized brutes of this world does tend to enculturate you with the
view that the world is fundamentally civil. Growing up the way my father
did will teach you that it’s not.
Tangentially, I’d also like to mention that going through bad things
does not make you a good person. It does not necessarily induce a sense
of empathy; it is as likely to create empathy as it is to create a “fuck
everyone else, me first” mentality.
This occurs on Reddit and I’m sure other places as well, this
leveraging of liberal tolerance and public reason to spread far right
views, especially on high-traffic circle-jerky subs where
effort/knowledge is generally low but lurker total is high. Either
rhetorically trounce some shitposter - in the usual garbage
back-and-worth way that internet arguments occur - or win a PR victory
by being “suppressed” by “fascist” mods, or political correctness, or
leftism, or whatever.
Had to make a post exactly about this on /r/enoughpetersonspam after
a few crossposts attracted a few white nationalists trying to perform
the same act.
>This occurs on Reddit and I'm sure other places as well, this leveraging of liberal tolerance and public reason to spread far right views, especially on high-traffic circle-jerky subs where effort/knowledge is generally low but lurker total is high. Either rhetorically trounce some shitposter - in the usual garbage back-and-worth way that internet arguments occur - or win a PR victory by being "suppressed" by "fascist" mods, or political correctness, or leftism, or whatever.
>
>Had to make a post exactly about this on /r/enoughpetersonspam after a few crossposts attracted a few white nationalists trying to perform the same act.
I mean this is also EXACTLY the argument forwarded by the reddit admins (and others) in defense of You Know Which Subreddit.
Considering he was a high-profile aide to the president of the most
powerful country in the world, Bannon has had enough sunlight to be
burnt to a crisp at this point. It’s clear media outlets are doing this
sort of thing to troll their audience as clickbait. There’s really no
reason to concern troll over it unless you’re the one making money from
it.
the one thing that's unclear to me is whether the majority of people who say things like that are ideologues choosing to work in media because they legitimately believe this or whether they're just cynically trying to boost the idea in order to convince people their jobs are necessary to the functioning of civil society and #resistance
hey my first exposure to Laurie Penny was the post you recently made about the cryptocurrency cruise, and I really liked it, and a lot of commenters said they love her writing. So I'm not being presumptuous or adversarial, but honestly curious: why don't you like her?
It’s not just being smart–it’s also a particular kind of shelteredness, the sort I’d expect from someone who grew up in a nice suburb. My dad is smart, having a PhD in physics and all that, but as a Chinese man he had a very different experience, and consequently, a very different outlook on life. The Chinese Communist Party sent him off to a labor camp and tried to kill his grandfather, and he lived through the Cultural Revolution. Plus, he was born right at the end of WWII, and he grew up acutely aware of the horrors of the Japanese invasion.
He definitely does not believe in the power of civil dialogue. He has a very cynical, “might makes right” worldview. I think, unfortunately, it’s one reason he voted for Trump–that lack of faith in humanity makes him find bootlicking a tad too congenial.
I don’t want to say that people who grow up in Western suburbs have no problems, because they do. Many of them are more severe than we would care to admit. I think that the current system of relentless ranking and grading is very psychologically harmful; most people are on their screens too much; Western society has a lot of alienation; it’s always bad to be female, so on and so forth–I could go on for quite some length. Anyone who grew up in a rich suburb will know their fair share of people who have severe cases of depression and anxiety that don’t seem “deserved.” For instance, I went to a very highly ranked public high school, in a terribly posh and comfortable suburb, where kids would self-injure if their grades weren’t high enough, and teen suicides are a regular occurrence. I find the phrase #firstworldproblems stupid, unempathetic, and deserving only of contempt.
But, growing up with material comforts and protection from the organized brutes of this world does tend to enculturate you with the view that the world is fundamentally civil. Growing up the way my father did will teach you that it’s not.
Tangentially, I’d also like to mention that going through bad things does not make you a good person. It does not necessarily induce a sense of empathy; it is as likely to create empathy as it is to create a “fuck everyone else, me first” mentality.
This occurs on Reddit and I’m sure other places as well, this leveraging of liberal tolerance and public reason to spread far right views, especially on high-traffic circle-jerky subs where effort/knowledge is generally low but lurker total is high. Either rhetorically trounce some shitposter - in the usual garbage back-and-worth way that internet arguments occur - or win a PR victory by being “suppressed” by “fascist” mods, or political correctness, or leftism, or whatever.
Had to make a post exactly about this on /r/enoughpetersonspam after a few crossposts attracted a few white nationalists trying to perform the same act.
Considering he was a high-profile aide to the president of the most powerful country in the world, Bannon has had enough sunlight to be burnt to a crisp at this point. It’s clear media outlets are doing this sort of thing to troll their audience as clickbait. There’s really no reason to concern troll over it unless you’re the one making money from it.
As much as I dislike Laurie Penny, this is a really excellent 101 piece.