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Did Yudkowsky crib the physics part of the Sequences from David Deutsch "The Fabric of Reality"? (https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/9mf1ik/did_yudkowsky_crib_the_physics_part_of_the/)
6

Someone claimed this in a recent RationalWiki edit.

I haven’t read the Deutsch book. Some LW posters like Deutsch a whole lot, but Yudkowsky doesn’t namecheck him specifically.

Here’s Wikipedia on the book. Has anyone here read it and the Sequences? How good a match is it?

Since Yud’s understanding of physics is so thouroughly impoverished that he only sees it as a bunch of toy puzzles for Rick And Morty viewers to amuse themselves with, we’d probably be doing the British Prof a service by keeping his name totally decoupled from Big Yud’s.

Deutsch, to be fair, is a bit of an arse, although obviously an extremely talented physicist. His views on the philosophy and indeed nature of science are outdated and scattershot. But then to be fair I hold a few outdated ideas about the philosophy and nature of science and I'm certainly scattershot with them. And obviously as everybody knows I'm a bit of an arse.
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> He's pretty vocally right wing Libertarian/Austrian. Popperians tend to be, for no very good reason.
'Libertarian' = right winger with a bad conscience. 'Classical liberal' = pretentious right winger. Let's not fool ourselves here.
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At least Scott has realised the contradiction between "I want more left wingers" and "I keep banning left wingers.
Popperians?
Karl Popper was a philosopher of science. He taught courses on the scientific method which he claims he taught courses on a subject that doesn't exist. His words are bold. He's one of those writers that may surprise you once you read him rather than have other people tell you what he was all about.
Eeer no, Popperians are not libertarian. Popper preached piecemeal social engineering, which is explicitly not libertarian.
Popper may have believed in piecemeal social engineering, but it is very common for followers to exaggerate and simplify.
Maybe in your circle, but not in mine.
He will certainly venture confident opinions in fields that he doesn't know much about.
Which of his views are outdated? Can explain them?
All of them, he isn't especially familiar with much outside his locale. It's pop-science for laypeople. Not to be taken remotely seriously.
Science? He writes mostly about philosophy and mathematics.. Are you completely sure you've read anything from him? Anything at all?
Actually he writes primarily about science, being a physicist. His books are about the (supposed) intersection of philosophy, science, maths, and culture. Are you sure you've read anything from him? Anything at all?
Oh come now, don't be dishonest. You said "Pop science" not research papers. So you're definitely talking about his books! And his books are primarily philosophy and mathematics with a dash of science. Just admit it, you haven't read his work at all!
You're weird, and I assumed we were talking about his books, which are about the intersection of philosophy, science, mathematics, and culture.
Did you read The Beginning of Infinity? He's actually really smart lol. I can see how the "I'm better than everyone" attitude can be conveyed by Deutsch but I think he is mostly right. How he demarcates science and applies it to many other fields is brilliant. I'm sure he's wrong about many things and would admit it, since that's one of that main factors of his thesis. Being wrong can be a good thing.
I'm confused, you seem to think I'm making at least three claims which I'm not, and I'd genuinely really appreciate you telling me why you think that I am: 1) Deutsch isn't "actually really smart" 2) Deutsch has an "I'm better than everyone" attitude 3) Being wrong cannot be a good thing Since I never said any of these things, or implied them, and indeed made several other *specific and explicit* claims which are different from them (and which you at no point even acknowledge) it's strange that you respond to things I didn't say, and don't respond to things I *did* say, for example: >Deutsch, to be fair, is a bit of an arse, although obviously an extremely talented physicist. (this contradicts any implication that I don't think Deutsch is smart) >His views on the philosophy and indeed nature of science are outdated and scattershot. (this doesn't immediately contradict any claim you falsely attribute to me, but it is also something I explicitly say which you don't acknowledge)
I don't assume 1, 2, or 3. Just being silly with 1, and ranting about 2 and 3. You're just a silly little goose arnt you?
Go fuck yourself
Ok, whenever the wife leaves for work I will. Any recommendations? Thanks ya silly lil goosie.
I hate the term pop-science. My superstitious family felt people like Carl Sagan were somehow less scientific by being popular. As a result I delayed reading his works for years. Popularizing science is a good.
So? Obviously popularising science is (or has its) good(s). The pejorative usage of "pop science" is about science which is popularised to the point of bastardisation.
If Deutsch is bastardizing science, then I’m not sure what standard you are aiming for when it comes to science popularizers. If he doesn’t merit a place among good scientists, who would? I guess if you could explain what you mean by bastardization in this context, that might help me understand you better and perhaps even agree. Cheers
Well for a start he discusses memes as if they're real
Dawkins coined the term in his book The Extended Phenotype (his best book, IMO). Meme is a cultural unit of transmission and has Darwinian-like behavior as a replicator. Only pop-culture bastardized the word to mean Grumpy Cat and well...
I am...fully aware of Dawkins's use of the term, did you somehow think I was talking about something else? Do you just go around life assuming other people are as ignorant or stupid as possible?
I guess I just wasn’t sure why you thought memes weren’t real.
Because the idea has been entirely discredited for about 20 years, not to mention it originates in his preceding book, *The Selfish Gene*, but there you go.

I think this is just someone jumping to conclusions. For whatever reason, I have noticed that many-worlds proponents often consider their interpretation to be obviously true and superior.

As /u/TheAncientGeek remarks, Eliezer did start out with an idea of quantum mechanics obtained from Penrose, who promotes the interpretation of wavefunction “collapse” driven by objective independent dynamics (rather than wavefunction collapse driven by observation). Then at some point, Eliezer converted to the many worlds interpretation (no collapse at all).

I always thought his co-blogger Robin Hanson was probably instrumental in this, since Hanson developed his own version of many worlds. But there were other many-worlders in the transhumanist milieu (e.g. Mike Price), and of course one could also pick up the idea from reading actual physicists.

Eliezer did eventually state that he does not agree with the specific ideas of the Oxford school of many worlds - associated with Deutsch and with David Wallace. The Oxford school may be the worst version of many worlds (on account of its extreme illogicality, details upon request), so in favoring Hanson’s, Eliezer was at least being genuinely less wrong.

> The Oxford school may be the worst version of many worlds (on account of its extreme illogicality, details upon request) I googled about this and see you wrote something about it [here](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6McLFoTupdCkxH9Nd/problems-of-the-deutsch-wallace-version-of-many-worlds)--anything else to add about your objections there? What other schools of thought are there on the MWI, and do you think any of them are able to derive probabilities in more of a frequentist way while being able to give some coherent answer to the [preferred basis objection](https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/74306/what-is-the-preferred-basis-objection-to-the-many-worlds-interpretation-of-quant)?
There are now a number of papers on arxiv criticizing Deutsch and Wallace, especially the decision-theoretic "derivation" of the Born rule. Judged by pedigree and by utility, the best "many-worlds-like" approach to quantum mechanics, is the decoherent histories or consistent histories formalism. But it is usually regarded as a calculative framework rather than as an ontology. The clearest ontological version of many worlds is "many interacting worlds", in which worlds do not split and merge; they are always distinct, and interact with each other. It still requires a probability distribution over initial conditions. Under my essay from 2011, I have a comment about "shades of opinion" regarding the MWI. That will still have to stand as a taxonomy of schools of thought. You could look up Jess Riedel (from the Zurek "school") for someone who is trying to make it work, and who knows what he's doing.

Physics degree, read the sequences, read the book: yes…oh yes,

It also seems like he’s read Penrose’s popular works..that would certainly explain his not-quite-right take on Copenhagen.

David deutsch liked my tweet lol