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Given various links and references I’ve seen around this sub, I have no doubt many sneerers are already familiar with this video, but for those who aren’t, it is an excellent examination of rhetorical patterns I’ve noticed in the comments of SSC and it’s subreddit.

There is even an explicit mention of “people who identify as ‘rationalists’”, and the video theorizes that the usual logical chain of:

  • When I am presented with the truth, I will believe it.

  • I will defend the truth in argument.

  • Repeat if necessary.

  • This is a rational method of thinking.

  • Therefore, I am a rationalist.

Sometimes gets turned on its head to become:

  • I am a rationalist.

  • If I am arguing in favor of this position, then I must believe it.

  • If I believe this argument, because I am a rationalist, it must be true.

Obviously this doesn’t describe all (or likely even most) people associated with SSC (the video is from the “Alt-Right Playbook”, not the “Rationalist” or even “Neoreactionary” Playbook), but it was eye-opening to hear someone articulate something I couldn’t quite put my finger on, and then see it in action so frequently.

I’ve watched a couple of these videos now with great interest, after many recommendations, and I’m sorry to say I don’t really like them - they seem to spend way too much time describing the secret motivations and mental states of other people according to the disparate statements of a few loud ones, which is the same thing that’s so annoying when some on the other side do it (I’ve heard one too many right-wing talk radio hosts telling their listeners how “liberals” think). But whatever goes on in the minds of actual people, I’ve definitely observed all of these behaviors firsthand, and they’re worth discussing, and this discussion is interesting, so it’s mostly a problem of rhetorical framing.

Despite that complaint, the author does hit many nails squarely on the head, and one of them is the point about anonymity and poor moderation (6:36, which is a borrowed observation). If anything, chan culture actually rewards people for posting edgy offensive opinions. The old SSC Culture War threads (I haven’t seen the new whatever and don’t care to) did pretty much the same thing, in a different way: people expressed a genuine belief that they were creating a better Marketplace of Ideas by going out of their way to welcome the ones that are shunned by polite society. This seems endemic and maybe inherent to Rationalism, and the consequences for its political discourse are pretty much the same as if they actively invited in other fringe ideas like vaccine myths or creationism or climate denialism (oh wait, I think some of them did fall for that one) among laypeople who are ill-equipped to answer those questions. If anything maybe it’s worse because people genuinely believe this is giving them a worthwhile intellectual exchange rather than just lulz.

>people expressed a genuine belief that they were creating a better Marketplace of Ideas by going out of their way to welcome the ones that are shunned by polite society. A lot of people tell themselves this fanciful notion that the unpopular ideas are the ones most deserving of protection, and indeed one should actually seek them out and pay extra attention to them. But nobody really thinks through what that means. Most unpopular ideas are on the theme of like "gas the Jews" and "in 1982 Interpol and the KGB implanted a tracking device in my anus". I don't know what people thought they were gonna find when they go out of their way to give special protection and attention to unpopular ideas.
It reminds me of a phrase I heard, I forget how exactly it goes. It's something like "Just because society didn't believe Galileo, and society doesn't believe you, that doesn't mean you are Galileo".
>They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
They laughed at Columbus because he underestimated the size of the Earth and if there has been an unknown continent (and islands) smack dab in his way he would have run out of supplies and died at sea
[removed]
I agree; I was imprecise and that imprecision glossed over a significant issue. Actually, even my off-topic examples illustrate the same thing: AFAIK Rationalists will probably still laugh out vaccine deniers and creationists from their dialogue, because their demographics seem to be drawn from Millennial militant-atheist and anti-woo-woo types, but climate deniers are treated as worth debating and once in a while a Holocaust denier at least seems to feel welcome enough to JAQ off among them. (If I'm wrong and there are verbose Rationalist disquisitions on creationism or vaccines, I'd love to see those.) What's the pattern of which fringe ideas are welcomed? Is it just the ones that passively fail to sound offensive/naive to people in Rationalist demographics? Or ones that actively appeal to people from those backgrounds? > Robert Mugabe Hmm, what's the difference between him and Leopold II...
> What's the pattern of which fringe ideas are welcomed? Honestly, if I'm being charitable (shoot me), it's the ones they intuitively hope are true, but have lacked the boldness or effort to look into themselves. The first person to come along with a supporting shallow performance of 'reason' is a fucking relief (maybe even release). I see this a lot in stiller's subreddit. Recently, [Omar's tweet](https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/1094747501578633216) about Israel was intuitively *bad* to so many of them, but they couldn't say why when pressed. That is, until someone dug up a [2014 tweet](https://twitter.com/ilhanmn/status/269488770066313216?lang=en) that was even more ambiguous, perpetuating the uncharacteristic idpol-based arguments in the *ham sarris subreddit*, King of anti-Idpol. I have other experiences in left-ish communities where someone comes along and *finally* gives the argument the audience always suspected was true. Sneers aside, it's a very humanizing aspect of rationalists: *someone's* reason is finally slaved to their passion.
I've noticed the inconsistency about contrarian versus mainstream views. Rationalists are supposed to be mainstream about vaccination, contrarian about AI and physics, and get a free choice about climate change, HBD and other right wing favourites. They are capable of understanding the concept of settled science, but they apply it on a very different way to sneerers.
why are you responding to marxbro?

Yeah, I watched the video a few days ago, and again today, and there’s a real echo with SSCers (as well as a lot of other alt-right/NRx/etc. people).

Also you need a space after you ‘*’ to make a bullet point.

Also, that “the card says Moops” scene from Seinfield is hilarious.

Edit: also maybe please tag this NSFW.

Ah, thanks for the formatting tip; I can never remember the particulars. I did select the NSFW tag when I posted, and I see it to the left of the post title... is there another step I need to take?
Honestly I have no idea. I also see the NSFW tag to the left of the title, but I don't see the usual red tag. Oh well...
It looks like it's got the subreddit flair "nsfw", but not the Reddit-site-layer NSFW that every sub has (and it used to hide porn from previews)
I think I fixed it now. Mobile isn’t the best method of posting, clearly. 🙂
Yep, it's got both now.