She and I are very alarmed at the new Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
thing. We speculate that this is a blend of social media saturation and
bad parenting, which rolls out basically like this. Puberty is a very
confusing time for everyone, the social dynamics of junior high is
horrible, high school is not much better. Some parents are too busy
virtue signaling their alliances on Facebook to talk meaningfully with
their kids about what’s happening to them during puberty. The kids are
also social media addicted, just like mom and dad. The kids see that
they’ll become instant school celebrities and get tons of instagram
followers if they identify as trans. The parents are fine with it
because it lets them gain virtue points with their blue tribe friends on
Facebook. They sign their kids up for hormone therapy because they have
infinite trust in the medical establishment and the state that this
won’t screw their kids up.
You heard it here, everyones just being trans for the vine
The guy who invented ROGD also thinks anime causes people to become trans. (Edit: I could be wrong here and this was the 'M->F trans is just a fetish for gay men' guy).
This is antivax level stupid infecting the rationalist community.
This is exactly the same kind of bullshit opinion that's been floating around for the last half century, just with a different buzzword shot in.
It's all ~~television~~ ~~rock n roll~~ ~~video games~~ SOCIAL MEDIA'S fault.
Teenagers these days (1) act like little shits and (2) like this new technology/art form. This is a totally new phenomenon and clearly new technology/art form’s fault!
What an exciting, original and clearly unbiased take.
EDIT: Also reminds me of MiserableMusic’s post in the current week’s CW thread. Don’t wanna link it so they don’t get called up here.
[It goes back a bit further than that.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/4-bad-side-effects-of-rea_b_5513451?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIIzxJFphBMOaUHCyGO1bi9_-SrUDSZ9VRulhVzj9v1Jf_ZDCzIQsRSjcIDyyk9uEq0gJb5l59eI5zziJjNYEYTaFyToLvUcnI9aQoNBqA_oMfkfks8biiQbqlnwdd3BcSAW3XCl6rE3BdRqDW2ENUlWwEq29ttCZ1KYFoxnvu1O)
Why bother actually talking to the people associated with a
particular issue, or even take a stab at some basic research, when you
can just ask the spouse and wallow in knee jerk speculative
pontifications on the internet. That’s how you actually get to the
deeper truths.
I just scrolled, stopped randomly and the first thing I see is
It’s also currently more fashionable to be trans than to simply be
gay.
I’m shocked to learn rationalists know anything about fashion.
This way they can pretend their child/citizen is mentally ill and in
need of treatment rather than simply someone who enjoys same gender sex
and intimacy.
Gender is just Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
Think about it. Kaitlin Jenner is an actual hero in the left media.
He would be nothing at all if he was just a gay man.
Do these people only care about the math olympics?
> I'm clearly not viewing the same "left-media" as this guy...
I also always get the same idea. I have no idea where these people get their ideas of 'the left' from. I worry it is filtered via anti-sjw people and that is their whole exposure to it.
What a weird way to misgender someone, using the correct name but the wrong pronoun. It wouldn't be quite so notable if it were any random trans person, but in this case her deadname is well-known, so presumably this person is aware of it and could have used it were they so inclined.
I imagine their argument would be something like "Pronouns refer to chromosomal sex, but [she] had [her] name legally changed, so Kaitlin is the correct name to use", not that it wouldn't be complete bullshit regardless.
She and I are of the libertarian approach to trans rights, which can
be summarized as “It’s not my business if you want to dress like a lady
or cut your dick off. Your body your choice.”
I tied to engage OP about this point on the thread (my mistake), but
I really don’t get this. If your libertarian beliefs state that what
other people do is none of your business, then why make a whole fucking
thread about how worried you are that other people’s children might turn
out to be trans? It really seems like he wants to interfere with how
other people live their lives but isn’t willing to outright admit it to
himself or others yet.
Because "libertarianism" is just conservatism but stripping away any pretense of obligations for the more-powerful, so ultimately they end up endorsing the same old gender and sexuality restrictions.
Is there any good data on the prevalence of rapid onset gender
dysphoria in modern teens?
[…]
She and I are very alarmed at the new Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria
thing. We speculate that this is a blend of social media saturation and
bad parenting, which rolls out basically like this. Puberty is a very
confusing time for everyone, the social dynamics of junior high is
horrible, high school is not much better. Some parents are too busy
virtue signaling their alliances on Facebook to talk meaningfully with
their kids about what’s happening to them during puberty. The kids are
also social media addicted, just like mom and dad. The kids see that
they’ll become instant school celebrities and get tons of instagram
followers if they identify as trans. The parents are fine with it
because it lets them gain virtue points with their blue tribe friends on
Facebook. They sign their kids up for hormone therapy because they have
infinite trust in the medical establishment and the state that this
won’t screw their kids up.
“Hi, I know nothing about transgender people but I’m already
moral-panicking really hard about them. Could people please find
anything, please, anything to justify this preexisting bias?
This is the rational thing to do and I am a rationalist.”
And rationalists apparently like this shit:
I don’t have the data you’re asking for, but I just wanted to comment
that this is the sort of level-headed, humble, skeptical, respectful,
thorough, non-glory-seeking approach that constitutes quality parenting.
Good on you (and your friend’s wife) for consciously sidestepping the
culture war posturing and doing the grunt work to take care of your own.
The fact that you’re asking the question this way tells me that your
kids are going to turn out just fine.
I mean, are you fucking kidding me?
Oh, also this :
Beej67
[…]
She and I are of the libertarian approach to trans rights
Ah yeah, this is peak conservative thought: “I’m a libertarian really
BUT won’t somebody think of the children!!!”
Edit: a libertarian is a conservative who smokes weed. A conservative
is a libertarian with moral panic.
I honestly feel like somebody's gaslighting me with this stuff sometimes.
Like you know, I'm lucky, I went to a very good and relatively expensive school that was and is known for being a liberal sort of place (rather than, say, its peers with a more traditional Tory inclination (I may be giving a talk there to the high schoolers about studying philosophy of science soonish, actually, because while visiting my mum down in London I ran into my old philosophy teacher)). I "specialised" for want of a better word in English and part of that was quite a bit of media studies (or rhetoric/communications as its known in America). Those classes weren't especially ideologically driven (contrary to the standard dogma about media studies) and you just learned a lot about how ideas get propagated in the media - when I went to university for undergrad I had to do all of the same shit over again and to be fair to the conspiracy theorists I was frustrated by the ideological bent in that version of those lessons.
But since leaving school coming up creepingly and ominously to a decade ago my day-to-day is filled with people who *just don't know how media works on people's brains*. People who just blindly reference these things like "ROGD" (they use the acronym!) without a single thought for how they came across the idea and where it came from in the first place. And yet I *know* that it can't just be a matter of my lucky bourgeois education because on one side I know and am good friends with people who had absolutely **shit**, bottom of the pile no-money-for-food-on-a-regular-basis-let-alone-media-studies-classes childhoods who are perfectly aware of this stuff, and know and despise people who had all the opportunity in the world who will blindly cite this stuff and do so in the national paper of record.
This happened frequently in my brief career as a wannabe philosopher too, let alone the opinion pages or /r/samharris (or Sam Harris for that matter). When I was in undergrad I had to - rightly - read Frege, and then when I was studying for my Master's I had to watch a relatively eminent philosopher of language describe semantic externalism as if it were totally alien to forgoing ideas about sense and reference. Come the fuck on, semantic externalism might have been an innovation in terms of making things explicit but you can't pretend that before Putnam nobody had thought of the idea that the meaning of sentences is fixed by something other than internal psychological processes!
What the fuck!?
Anyway, I'm visiting London right now and my step-dad just bought one of the most gorgeous guitars I've ever seen, I'm having dinner with my dad this evening, I've got a couple of flats to look at back in Scotland next week, and I need to submit more job applications, so I'm going to ignore everything forever.
Ugh, this is aggressively, willfully ignorant. Let’s just speculate
wildly about other people’s internal experiences. Actually talk to those
people? Bah, who needs that?
She and I are of the libertarian approach to trans rights, which can
be summarized as “It’s not my business if you want to dress like a lady
or cut your dick off. Your body your choice.”
AKA “we think trans people are freaks, but we don’t think it should
be illegal to be freaks”. Such powerful allies, I feel so much
safer knowing that these people are looking out for me!!
Exactly how prevalent is this new Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria stuff?
We’ve started seeing some high schoolers fall into it. Her go-to
babysitter IDed as trans recently. There’s a trans prom queen near us,
and we’re in a deeply Red State.
Alternative explanation. As it is now more and more normal to see
trans people as trans people, and not freaks. Some people who secretly
were trans in the past but repressed it now are showing themselves.
Boom, Occam razored the whole rogd thing away. Look at my powers of
frationality ye mighty and despair.
She and I are of the libertarian approach to trans rights, which can
be summarized as “It’s not my business if you want to dress like a lady
or cut your dick off. Your body your choice.”
This person clearly didn’t do their research on trans issues. (why is
it always about the penis with those transphobes? If you just understand
the mouthfeel joke/meme thing you should get that a lot of trans women
simply have a penis).
Edit: also it is stupid how many of the right wing anti trans
bullshit is in that thread, and how much the OPs mind was already made
up before asking any questions, the OP is just looking to confirm their
biasses.
Alternate alternate explanation: a 12 year old figures they might be trans, knows they live in a house with reactionary jerks for parents who will send them to a reeducation camp, and stays deep in the closet until 18 when they move out.
Oh no, so rapid.
According to the New York Times in 2017 it’s 1
out of every 137. Which seems ridiculous to me.
So, this is a question that has a quantifiable answer. “How many
young people are transgender?” “Less than 1%.” But because less than one
people in a hundred *feels* like an epidemic to some people, clearly
that’s not proof that being transgender is actually somewhat
consistently prevalent in the population, but that it is a
CONTAGION.
A friend of mine has a daughter a year younger, and who goes to
middle school in a very trendy Portland-liberal urban district. He told
me recently that his daughter’s group of friends is aggressively
pro-trans – this is their identity at school, they are ‘the pro-trans
kids’ – even though none of them are (known to be) trans themselves.
They are “trans” in solidarity and make a deal about supporting
trans-ness.
I can’t see how this kind of rallying atmosphere doesn’t affect the
decisions kids make.
“I know a bunch of teenagers who go so far as to make supporting
trans people their identity, none of whom identify as trans themselves.
Therefore supporting transgender people TURNS KIDS TRANS.”
Not to necromance, but I was the first to reply to this thread, and
when I did so I posted a link to the top studies (that I could find) on
ROGD, provided what I thought was a nuanced description of each,
concluded that ROGD is basically just fearmongering….. and for some
reason, never got a response from OP. Weird, that.
You heard it here, everyones just being trans for the vine
Why bother actually talking to the people associated with a particular issue, or even take a stab at some basic research, when you can just ask the spouse and wallow in knee jerk speculative pontifications on the internet. That’s how you actually get to the deeper truths.
I just scrolled, stopped randomly and the first thing I see is
I’m shocked to learn rationalists know anything about fashion.
Gender is just Munchausen syndrome by proxy.
Do these people only care about the math olympics?
I tied to engage OP about this point on the thread (my mistake), but I really don’t get this. If your libertarian beliefs state that what other people do is none of your business, then why make a whole fucking thread about how worried you are that other people’s children might turn out to be trans? It really seems like he wants to interfere with how other people live their lives but isn’t willing to outright admit it to himself or others yet.
“Hi, I know nothing about transgender people but I’m already moral-panicking really hard about them. Could people please find anything, please, anything to justify this preexisting bias? This is the rational thing to do and I am a rationalist.”
And rationalists apparently like this shit:
I mean, are you fucking kidding me?
Oh, also this :
Ah yeah, this is peak conservative thought: “I’m a libertarian really BUT won’t somebody think of the children!!!”
Edit: a libertarian is a conservative who smokes weed. A conservative is a libertarian with moral panic.
[deleted]
Ugh, this is aggressively, willfully ignorant. Let’s just speculate wildly about other people’s internal experiences. Actually talk to those people? Bah, who needs that?
AKA “we think trans people are freaks, but we don’t think it should be illegal to be freaks”. Such powerful allies, I feel so much safer knowing that these people are looking out for me!!
I have no doubt in my mind as to the sincerity of this comment by noted the_donald poster “kekmaga”
Alternative explanation. As it is now more and more normal to see trans people as trans people, and not freaks. Some people who secretly were trans in the past but repressed it now are showing themselves. Boom, Occam razored the whole rogd thing away. Look at my powers of frationality ye mighty and despair.
This person clearly didn’t do their research on trans issues. (why is it always about the penis with those transphobes? If you just understand the mouthfeel joke/meme thing you should get that a lot of trans women simply have a penis).
Edit: also it is stupid how many of the right wing anti trans bullshit is in that thread, and how much the OPs mind was already made up before asking any questions, the OP is just looking to confirm their biasses.
Top comment:
So, this is a question that has a quantifiable answer. “How many young people are transgender?” “Less than 1%.” But because less than one people in a hundred *feels* like an epidemic to some people, clearly that’s not proof that being transgender is actually somewhat consistently prevalent in the population, but that it is a CONTAGION.
“I know a bunch of teenagers who go so far as to make supporting trans people their identity, none of whom identify as trans themselves. Therefore supporting transgender people TURNS KIDS TRANS.”
Not to necromance, but I was the first to reply to this thread, and when I did so I posted a link to the top studies (that I could find) on ROGD, provided what I thought was a nuanced description of each, concluded that ROGD is basically just fearmongering….. and for some reason, never got a response from OP. Weird, that.