posted on July 29, 2019 11:21 AM by
u/throwaway_EC99
46
u/Epistaxis37 pointsat 1564416639.000000
There were actually two groups within the atheist movement ten years
ago: activists who thought religion was making the world worse (this was
during and shortly after eight years of George W. Bush’s compassionate
conservatism) and trolls who were looking for the most offensive thing
they could say. I think most of us had a foot in each camp. But they
distinguished themselves and split off starting on 2011 with
Elevatorgate (actually a few years before Gamergate would play out
similarly on a grander scale); the activists were surprised to discover
that treating women politely was a contentious issue, and the trolls
were outraged at being asked to treat anyone politely. So both sides dug
in, with the activist side adding feminism etc. as explicit parts of a
broader “atheism plus” agenda and the troll side rallying to YouTube
videos that “destroyed” feminism the same way they previously destroyed
creationism. I’m not really sure what became of the activist side; in my
experience most of them just got fed up and left altogether and moved on
to other causes like #Occupy, as the specter of American state
fundamentalism faded and American inequality/corruption started to look
like a bigger problem. The troll side slid into fascism.
>Elevatorgate
that happened when i was an edgy nu-atheist teen, and i went to reassess it a few months ago. i remembered a woman making a huge deal about being playfully flirted with in an elevator like it was the end of the world, but found a woman recounting an awkward and vaguely threatening exchange in an elevator in a very, very brief aside in an almost 10 minute video, and people losing their fucking lids over it. how wrongly i remembered it really tripped me out
I think it was clear who was right wing reactionary and who wasn’t back in the late 90’s or early 00’s, I just think a few too many of the Liberal/Progressive VIP’s willfully deluded themselves about the reactionary VIP’s until it was way too obvious about which sides they’re on.
ETA: Edited for clarity. If anyone objects to my comments perhaps they’re looking back at those years with rose tinted glasses.
I may have to eventually write a post on my actual blog about the subject matter, but hate for Islam and Muslims wasn’t unusual even among the Liberal Wing.
The notable exceptions, of course, were the Atheism+ crowd, who
decided that in addition to being atheists, they should also organize
around being decent human beings instead of insufferable assholes. This
was completely unacceptable, of course, because the larger segment of
the online atheist population were insufferable assholes first and
atheists second.
Not to be confused with the British Marxist-Jezzainists, who mostly wish Corbyn would do a bit more to stop the tories but are too busy infighting about brexit to help.
I would have thought the Jezzainists would have as their first concern finding a way to bring the most recent season of The Grand Tour to free-to-air television.
It was built-in as then proto-ratheist figures cut their teeth in the
sociobiology
and science wars. Hell, getting racist to own the creationists is a
time-honored tradition going back to the
19th century.
I’m sympathetic to this attempt at explaining it, but I think a part
of but not the whole problem with the New Atheist movement/s, and I will
be fair in stating that even among the New Atheists that world view is
pretty diverse, not all are pessimists that have a disdain for
everything and or validating viewpoints, in fact there’s optimistic ones
who view rejecting Religion as embracing humanity, as well as New
Atheists Who have a spiritual and sense of wonder about Nature and Wild
Places, as you might notice in some Atheist Pagan groups.
I was an Atheist for awhile so I lurked on and off Atheist forums and
blogging communities but never felt a reason that they’d be Communities
I wanted to be a part of, even the Liberal/Leftists in these circles
were often over the top on hating religion and paranormal beliefs,
fantasies about ending Religion completely, coupled with a very
condescending view of religious and Magick user types, as though they
shouldn’t be allowed to operate heavy machinery.
It’s not so much the pessimism that I believe that’s a problem
(though it may be in some circles) but the attitude towards anyone who’d
believe in non corporeal entities, as though we’re all mentally ill or
deficient, in essence it’s the dehumanizing rhetoric allowed in a few
too many Atheist online communities regardless of personal politics from
at least the late 90’s or early 00’s, not the This World Sucks So Screw
You attitude, which I don’t recall observing in abundance-but I can’t
lurk in every Atheist Community much less want to.
Nah, I’d say the appeal of being able to look down at others without
question in poorly ran community/ies, eliminationist rhetoric (of the
cultural variety at least), COUPLED WITH (as the OP states) misusing
Science to confirm personal world views 24/7 helped enable these
problems that even liberal/progressive Atheists who wanted to like the
VIP New Atheist spokesmen at the time might not have been able to
predict, and that’s what I think is part of the root of how they got
there.
I think the explanation is far simpler. Much of male nerd culture is
hostile to feminism because young male nerds often feel rejected by
women. I think anti-feminism and misogyny better characterize the
internet new atheists than fascism.
Yeah, I'd agree to a certain extent. To the point where I think the main attraction in fascism for a lot of these people is that it can be used to justify their misogyny.
There were actually two groups within the atheist movement ten years ago: activists who thought religion was making the world worse (this was during and shortly after eight years of George W. Bush’s compassionate conservatism) and trolls who were looking for the most offensive thing they could say. I think most of us had a foot in each camp. But they distinguished themselves and split off starting on 2011 with Elevatorgate (actually a few years before Gamergate would play out similarly on a grander scale); the activists were surprised to discover that treating women politely was a contentious issue, and the trolls were outraged at being asked to treat anyone politely. So both sides dug in, with the activist side adding feminism etc. as explicit parts of a broader “atheism plus” agenda and the troll side rallying to YouTube videos that “destroyed” feminism the same way they previously destroyed creationism. I’m not really sure what became of the activist side; in my experience most of them just got fed up and left altogether and moved on to other causes like #Occupy, as the specter of American state fundamentalism faded and American inequality/corruption started to look like a bigger problem. The troll side slid into fascism.
The notable exceptions, of course, were the Atheism+ crowd, who decided that in addition to being atheists, they should also organize around being decent human beings instead of insufferable assholes. This was completely unacceptable, of course, because the larger segment of the online atheist population were insufferable assholes first and atheists second.
I can’t read “nutheist” and not think something dirty and hilarious. Thanks, internet
It was built-in as then proto-ratheist figures cut their teeth in the sociobiology and science wars. Hell, getting racist to own the creationists is a time-honored tradition going back to the 19th century.
I’m sympathetic to this attempt at explaining it, but I think a part of but not the whole problem with the New Atheist movement/s, and I will be fair in stating that even among the New Atheists that world view is pretty diverse, not all are pessimists that have a disdain for everything and or validating viewpoints, in fact there’s optimistic ones who view rejecting Religion as embracing humanity, as well as New Atheists Who have a spiritual and sense of wonder about Nature and Wild Places, as you might notice in some Atheist Pagan groups.
I was an Atheist for awhile so I lurked on and off Atheist forums and blogging communities but never felt a reason that they’d be Communities I wanted to be a part of, even the Liberal/Leftists in these circles were often over the top on hating religion and paranormal beliefs, fantasies about ending Religion completely, coupled with a very condescending view of religious and Magick user types, as though they shouldn’t be allowed to operate heavy machinery.
It’s not so much the pessimism that I believe that’s a problem (though it may be in some circles) but the attitude towards anyone who’d believe in non corporeal entities, as though we’re all mentally ill or deficient, in essence it’s the dehumanizing rhetoric allowed in a few too many Atheist online communities regardless of personal politics from at least the late 90’s or early 00’s, not the This World Sucks So Screw You attitude, which I don’t recall observing in abundance-but I can’t lurk in every Atheist Community much less want to.
Nah, I’d say the appeal of being able to look down at others without question in poorly ran community/ies, eliminationist rhetoric (of the cultural variety at least), COUPLED WITH (as the OP states) misusing Science to confirm personal world views 24/7 helped enable these problems that even liberal/progressive Atheists who wanted to like the VIP New Atheist spokesmen at the time might not have been able to predict, and that’s what I think is part of the root of how they got there.
Using the report button to say “Not a sneer” is basically admitting you own a body pillow and a gaming pc you can’t afford
Well written and insightful. Good shit!
I think the explanation is far simpler. Much of male nerd culture is hostile to feminism because young male nerds often feel rejected by women. I think anti-feminism and misogyny better characterize the internet new atheists than fascism.
Correct.
Willing to delete if inappropriate. Or reupload with a different title if it is okay, but the title is ‘cringy’.