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my skull shape determines i must be nonmonogamous (https://i.redd.it/14en82tiihv31.jpg)
48

I find it interesting how, in every other part of the world poly seems to be dominated by vegan hippy anarcho-socialists, but in the US it’s got this bizarre caliper brigade thing going on. I suspect it’s related to the fact that US ‘nerd’ culture seems to just be inherently more right-wing, certainly than the equivalent in the UK, for reasons I’m not sure I entirely grasp (apart from, I suppose, the fact that US culture just generally skews more right-wing than most of the Western world.)

> but in the US it's got this bizarre caliper brigade thing going on. Techbros using their newly founded status and wealth to try to build their harems normally I would never ever link vanityfair but it's an interesting one: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/brotopia-silicon-valley-secretive-orgiastic-inner-sanctum
that's a hell of a URL
Major parts of that story appear to have been fabricated: [https://twitter.com/webdevmason/status/951841833058934785](https://twitter.com/webdevmason/status/951841833058934785)
Not to defend Vanity Fair, but we *have* had plenty of substantiated stuff about off sexual practices amongst the Silicon/LessWrong set, so this shouldn't put people off the notion that they happen just because somebody wrote a tabloid SHOCK expose for a shit magazine (besides which one twitter account doesn't obviate claims made in any such article in the first place) edit: and moreover there's nothing wrong with sex parties, what matters is whether it's consensual and above board
yikes. I knew i shouldn't have posted vanityfair, ever
Yeah as far as stories go this specific one is full of air. Not to detract from the main point about techbros though
> I find it interesting how, in every other part of the world poly seems to be dominated by vegan hippy anarcho-socialists I'm not really an observer of the movement, but I think that's the case in America as well >but in the US it's got this bizarre caliper brigade thing going on. I think that's probably a minority but the ones that are are internet Rationalists and they're loud. > (apart from, I suppose, the fact that US culture just generally skews more right-wing than most of the Western world.) it's horrible
That wonderful one-two punch of puritanism and settler-colonialism.
My pet theory is that nerd culture skews right because it's based around acquisitiveness (of collectible items, better and better media and gaming systems etc.) and resentment (cultural mythology of being bullied by the jocks.) This focuses the culture on values held by upper-middle-class or petit-bourgeois people, who are a natural reactionary base.
The resentment factor could be a big reason for the differences, as that does not exist anywhere near as strongly over here. Also, I think with regards to the acquisitiveness, it's important to look at the way the whole thing has been commercialised in the US. One big difference that jumps out at me comparing nerd culture in the US vs the UK is how much more overlap there is between queer and general alternative subcultures over here. There is in the US as well, of course, but there appears to have been this extra effort in the US to push queer people, and women, more to the periphery.
If you need a lot of time and money to burn on a hobby, it's demographics are going to skew a certain way (i.e., middle to upper-class white dudes).
But that's the thing, the hobbies an interest themselves typically don't take much of any money to pursue. You don't need to have a significant amount of disposable income to be into Star Wars, or Dungeons & Dragons, or a lot of other stereotypically nerdy shit. But being into those things isn't really predictive of whether a person is going to adopt the identity of nerd culture.
If you want to collect all the shit and have a good gaming computer, it does though.
>My pet theory is that nerd culture skews right because it's based around acquisitiveness (of collectible items, better and better media and gaming systems etc.) and resentment (cultural mythology of being bullied by the jocks.) This focuses the culture on values held by upper-middle-class or petit-bourgeois people, who are a natural reactionary base. I think there's really something here, and this seems to explain or at least to suggest explanations for why most of the people that I know on the left are into things that overlap with those things that nerd culture identified people build themselves around, without in many cases really engaging with that culture, and often having a great deal of disdain for it. Like we're talking about people who are definitely into nerdy shit, and in a lot of cases were definitely bullied as nerds in their youth, but who absolutely are not capital n Nerds as regards what that term has come to mean.
>Despite [blowing away Democrats](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/president-trump-blows-away-democrats-with-recordbreaking-fundraising-totals-202434498.html) with his fundraising total in the third quarter, Trump isn’t faring as well among employees of FAANG companies. The president only received 7.5% of all donations contributed by FAANG and Microsoft ([MSFT](https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/MSFT?p=MSFT)) employees. [Source](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/faang-employees-give-most-often-to-sanders-warren-snub-biden-201253891.html). It's not that nerd culture skews right. Compared to the nation as a whole, nerds are much less likely to donate to Trump's campaign. It's that software companies are located in extremely left-leaning geographical areas which have much lower thresholds for what thoughts and behavior should count as "racist", "sexist", etc. And social media has a large appetite for stories which decry nerds as racist and sexist, even when these stories are [fabrications](https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/doq1p1/my_skull_shape_determines_i_must_be_nonmonogamous/f5u13u9/).
This is an insufficient analysis, straight up To be begin with, your source refers not to "nerd culture" but to employees of Silicon Valley tech companies. There is no obvious reason why those employees are exhaustively or even generally representative of "nerd culture". It is certainly clear from e.g. /r/slatestarcodex and /r/TheMotte that there is an influential subset of "nerd culture" which skews *heavily* right. We can see this again with the outsize influence of the likes of Mencius Moldbug (outsize to his credibility) that there is an influential "nerd culture" which skews right. We can see it further in the case study of reddit, which is a "nerd culture" skewed social media platform which includes a large number of "nerd culture" skewed communities which are much more accepting of, or even much more openly endorse, right-wing ideas than I am used to in nerdy communities that I encounter in real life. See also Peter Thiel, and his influence, as well as the general network of people associated with Thiel, the Bay Area, etc. who entertain quite powerfully authoritarian and anti-democratic ideas in the service of an odd but not unexpected mix of libertarianism and neo-fascism - or at the very least explicit forms of reactionary politics... ----- Then in your second sentence you make a strong causal claim about "extremely left-leaning geographical areas", such that the perception that "nerd culture" skews right is causally explained by (1) the unbalanced left skew of the places where "nerd culture" (allegedly) dominates and (2) that social media exaggerates incidences (sometimes fabricated) of a skew towards the right (which you describe as "racis[m]" and "sexis[m]"). ------ Unfortunately for you this is an abysmally perfunctory work of political science. Every one of the premises I have drawn out of your comment is easily challenged, and you provide only two very minor sources to justify them. The other problem you face is that you treat your interlocutor as if they as a reasoning agent could be so easily swayed by those two sources and your single paragraph that it's just obvious that they're wrong, which smacks of arrogance against your interlocutor and lack of self-respect for your own ability to make a less spurious analysis. ----- Nothing you've provided has enough explanatory power to make sense of your claims and what you *have* provided sounds like something David Brooks would make up for his next 800-word column for the New York Times.
You're making my point for me with Peter Thiel--he's essentially the *one* major power player in Silicon Valley who openly supports Trump. And he's relocated to LA by the way. That's the thing about anecdotes. Through cherry-picking, they can be used to prove anything, even when the data says otherwise. Data for Slate Star Codex [says](https://slatestarcodex.com/blog_images/2019%20SSC%20Survey.html) SSC readers are easily 3x as likely to identify with Democrats as Republicans, and "Social Democratic" is the most common position. (Scroll down to "Political Affiliation") Data for reddit [says](https://www.statista.com/statistics/517259/reddit-user-distribution-usa-political-spectrum/) reddit users are much more likely to consider themselves liberal than the US population at large. >We can see it further in the case study of reddit, which is a "nerd culture" skewed social media platform which includes a large number of "nerd culture" skewed communities which are much more accepting of, or even much more openly endorse, right-wing ideas *than I am used to* in nerdy communities that I encounter in real life. Emphasis mine. Exactly. Your real life nerdy community is very liberal, as I claimed nerds generally are. Your community has very few right wing voices in it. To the point where SSC and reddit seem obviously right skewed to you despite the data clearly saying otherwise. And because you're in a lefty bubble you see "presence of right wing voices" and think "clearly this crowd is very right wing". That's the point I was trying to make with my geography comment -- being in a bubble distorts your perspective. Anyway, this entire sub is an echo chamber of cherry-picked anecdotes and confirmation bias that aren't representative of the real world. People arguing for liberal positions on /r/themotte for example aren't going to make it to the frontpage in this sub because it's not your schtick. I'm glad to contribute my comments here, which, if you are to be believed, are just as high quality as NY Times columns, even though they are dashed off in <30 minutes ;) But I don't have all the time in the world, and [as they say](https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2019/01/28/bullshit-asymmetry-principle/)... (check explanation b)
I really don't care what the self-reported "Data" say about SSC readers, and I care even less about their political affiliation with specific American parties (I don't, it may shock some readers to discover, actually live in America or care about how party loyalty in a two-party system describes any one person's ideology, because that would be insane of me on all grounds). >Your community has very few right wing voices in it. My community has very many right wing voices in it, but you didn't ask or even bother to check, because you appear to think that because I moderate one subreddit I have no life outside it. If that's what you think it's because your worldview is so destructively distorted you're incapable of basic empathy. >That's the point I was trying to make with my geography comment -- being in a bubble distorts your perspective. Physician, heal thyself... >Anyway, this entire sub is an echo chamber of cherry-picked anecdotes and confirmation bias that aren't representative of the real world. If you don't like it you can fuck off if you want. All I'm asking you to have is a minimal degree of self-awareness and more importantly an awareness of how pathetically uninformative your analysis is. I do actual work on this sort of shit so maybe you could try and meet my most basic standards instead of citing ridiculous online surveys in support of your extraordinarily dull and self-serving opinions. If anybody is stuck in a bubble maybe consider you're a member of one, and then get out of it like a real person.
You implied your nerdy community is not "accepting of" right wing ideas and is reluctant to "openly endorse" them. Forgive me if that sounds like an echo chamber. >I do actual work on this sort of shit so maybe you could try and meet my most basic standards instead of citing ridiculous online surveys in support of your extraordinarily dull and self-serving opinions. Another classic pattern that seems to occur on this sub: claiming expertise on a topic, but when faced with actual data on the topic in question, saying *I don't listen to "data"* and also not providing any data of your own. PS: I do actually have a background in data analysis. Self-report data is not perfect. But it's also what political polls use. If self-report data is the best data available, it's silly to reject it and instead prefer anecdotes and intuitions the way you did in this thread. And as for the category thing, you can quibble with categorizations, but I think it's very disingenuous to throw evidence out on this basis. Tremendous amount of motivated cognition going on in this thread.
That is not informative data, it is two self-reported surveys on trifling political allegiance to ill-defined ideologies. As data what you have presented is of less than no worth: they are misleading by employing categories which in your analysis are category *errors*. I have had the pleasure of correcting much better statistical analyses for being misleading in an actual academic context. Just have some basic epistemic humility. You don't know remotely know what you're talking about and it is quite likely that you've been encouraged in your ignorance by the "I can figure this out from first principles" culture of the bad subreddits you frequent. You have to actually *learn* how to do data analysis. It's not actually that easy. You have to sort bad data from good data according to sometimes fuzzy *a priori* corrections and/or empirical experience with handling data. I have had to do that, so why is that you won't?
It's also considered bad form to add reams of commentary to existing comments without informing your interlocutor that you've done so, but go off I guess and enjoy your ban.
I was enjoying this thread :(
Counterpoint: I stopped enjoying it
Love to build mass-consumerist adtech products for giant megacorps with my extremely left-leaning friends
Orthodox evo psych "mating strategies" research also pushes the idea of natural polygyny, but I get the feeling the poly comes first and the evo psych is the post-hoc rationalization.
I mean, as with a lot of how evolutionary psychology is employed, especially by these fucking people.
Dregs of the hippie movement in San Francisco leaking into the bay area lead to techbros who want the fun parts of hippie culture(drug use, free love) without all the icky tolerating the untermenschen parts.
I tend to blame Heinlein, half-seriously and half-jokingly. Like, ever read *Stranger in a Strange Land*? On the one hand I love this book, but on the other hand it often has precisely the same energy Miller and other Very Online weirdos exude when talking about polyamory. Like, Heinlein seems to want to make polyamory look good, not because it's fun or fulfilling, but because it's *the thing to do*. The one *natural* way for people to be happy. Also, similarly to today's Bay Area poly crowd, Heinlein always insists on men being intelligent, and women being hot. And while doing all of this, Heinlein manages to keep being awfully puritanical regarding anything that isn't his very specific brand of polyamory. Specifically, the forceful insistence, repeated throughout the text, that Mike, the man born on Mars and untainted by human culture, is definitely very extremely and completely heterosexual. I could go on, but it's always hard to know when Heinlein is being serious in his books and when he's just throwing ideas at a wall to see what sticks, so I don't know, I could be talking complete bullshit.
IDK, is it possible that that's an artifact of where you're looking? In my experience it seems more aligned with queerness and / or kink.
I know there's that element of it in the US as well, but what I mean more is that I haven't encountered that right-libertarian element really *at all* in the UK, and I'm fairly deep into the sort of nerdy lefty sexual subcultures milieu.
Got it!
I assumed it was just San Francisco bleeding into techbro culture by proximity

This guy is literally the worst.

[deleted]
>Geoffrey wrote the book Mate with Tucker Max I mean, just starting there...
Now there's a fun sentence to read multiple ways
The first five paragraphs were too insufferable; I can only imagine what horrors await the more intrepid Sneerers deeper in the interview
This quote from her is so sad in a way. It is such a poly red flag. How can you trust your primary partner to be supportive of your other relationships if she says this? (And signaling this just is a power move to scare away any women he pursues, nice and supportive of her. But this kind of behavior is what you would expect in a HBD type of polycule).
>You mentioned somewhere that you first fell in love with Geoffrey after reading his book, The Mating Mind. >Diana: That’s true. >I have a question to Geoffrey here. According to evolutionary psychology, a lot of what we do, including intellectual things like writing a book, is deep down motivated by trying to get laid. Geoffrey: everything I do is motivated by getting laid. Diana: wow, that's hot! > Diana: I think it’s good that men do so many things to impress women. Geoffrey’s thesis in The Mating Mind is that we’re a lot smarter than what we need for survival, and the human mind is a lot like the peacock’s tail. It’s a result of runaway selection, and we’re showing off ostentatiously how smart we are. And women are smart to be able to evaluate intelligence and men’s creativity, so they became as sophisticated. >Geoffrey: That’s actually the wrong model, which I rejected. >Diana: No you did not, I just reread your book! >Geoffrey: You may want to reread it again. [smiles] I wanted to make a snarky comment on this part too but I can't. It just broke my brain.
During sex they both think they are smarter than the other and it is turning them on. Which is fine, whatever works for them I guess.
I had to stop reading at your second quote. Too much man.

Getting serious about polyamory, as in cracking down on it, or as in setting up shared Google spreadsheets for organising it effectively?

as in, measuring skulls for it
Do they think it's about … fucking the skull!?
More like fetishizing the genes that produce the skull. It's all very abstract, you probably wouldn't appreciate such a refined paraphilia.
To be fair, you have to have a very high parietal ridge to understand Quillette.
don't knock it
*fans self* just, uh, curious
Possibly, just for the sake of being charitable here, treating it as a serious mode for human relationships?

Polyamory is still a smallish subculture, but it is already much more common than being gay or lesbian. Americans think that about 24 percent of people are gay or lesbian, but the true percentage is closer to 2 percent. Thus, among America’s 83 million Millennials, 24 million are sympathetic to poly ideals, 17 million have tried poly, and 4 million are currently poly—compared to 3 million who are gay/lesbian.

I love how they speak about the statistics of people in gay relationships, and then they talk about how many poly people there are, while referencing the previous paragraph. This is the shittiest fucking writing. I might have written this in an 8th grade essay on Shakespeare before revising it.

Poly people have to learn to manage their sexual jealousy, by minimizing it and/or eroticizing it.

Just going to casually reference cuckoldly in passing

Also, too many poly advocates do so much progressive virtue-signaling that they’re not seen as credible spokespeople by mainstream folks.

What ever do you mean, Geoff? What about those (((virtue signalers)))

Finally, there’s the intense social disapproval of polyamory, which is heavily stigmatized—more stigmatized in some ways than any sex, race, class, religion, political attitude, or sexual orientation. Conservative and religious people are especially hostile to polyamory. Poly also lacks the legal status of being a protected minority, so poly people can be denied housing, jobs, and child custody just for being poly. The political status of polyamory is comparable to that of homosexuality before the 1969 Stonewall riots that launched the gay rights movement.

Holy shit no. If you tell your male friends that you’re poly, they’ll probably just think of you as a player.

In my academic research and popular science books, I’ve argued that a lot of human behavior is driven (unconsciously) by mating effort—the drive to show off our mental traits and moral virtues to attract sexual partners. These are costly signals, and we only bother to display them when they can yield mating payoffs. Monogamous exclusivity reduces those incentives. As mating effort gives way to parenting effort, traditional married couples often get lazy about their intellectual, social, and political lives. By contrast, open relationships incentivize people to stay healthy, fit, creative, and funny, because they’re always in the mating market.

There’s nothing sexier than using the term “mating market”. I hope this dude’s wife divorces him because he can’t talk without sounding like a fengari.

Monogamous societies flourished. That’s no accident. It’s important to acknowledge that the only societies that have ever succeeded in becoming large-scale technological civilizations were the ones that adopted monogamous marriage as the gold standard for long-term pair bonds and family formation.

Notice how he words things like a student who didn’t study trying to be as vague as possible so the teacher doesn’t notice.

Maybe most importantly, monogamy reduced the ability of high-status males to monopolize women, and helped to equalize mating opportunities. This decreased violent competition among males. Jordan Peterson has been especially vocal about the sexual-egalitarian and violence-reduction benefits of monogamy.

Malberro man says cigarettes good for your health.

Many “Red Pill” guys in the Manosphere are terrified that polyamory will expand the sexual underclass of male incels, but they usually confuse polyamory with polygyny. Polygyny makes it harder for lower-mate-value men to find partners, but polyamory actually makes it easier, because these guys don’t have to be good enough to be a woman’s primary partner.

Doesn’t this contradict the previous statement about how poly forces you to improve? I mean what kind of low-self-esteem woman is going to date some guy who probably thinks wiping his ass is gay.

Also, as Steven Pinker has shown, aggression rates have already dropped a hundredfold in the last thousand years, and the state has gotten better at deterring violence with surveillance, police, courts, and jails. Some of the more neurotic polyamorists enjoy maximizing the “poly drama” in their lives, but it rarely leads to spousal homicide.

Going to follow up my casual defense of authoritarian bootlicking with a boomer joke about polyamory. I am extremely normal. What kind of audience are you going for with a boomer joke about polyamory?

The claim that “50 percent of marriages end in divorce” is overblown—the divorce rate is much lower among college-educated people who marry when they’re older than 24, who aren’t pregnant when they marry, who have decent jobs, and whose spouses are the same race and religion.

Is this supposed to be an overly narrow demographic or several demographics? Again with this shitty prose that would fail a fucking 8th grade essay contest

Just as polyamory can learn a lot from monogamous marriage traditions about how to sustain long-term, pronatalist pair-bonds, monogamous marriages can learn a lot from poly relationships about communication, honesty, jealousy-management, and how to keep the sexual spark alive.

This is like the 3rd time this article just glosses over something heinous. Pronatalism is a fucking dog whistle for the “sex bad. contraception sin.” crowd.

> There's nothing sexier than using the term "mating market". Ah, yes, the rare, significantly worse version of "dating market." Thanks, I hate it.

Care to give a summary for those of us too lazy to look it up and entitled enough to ask for one? :P

evo psych guy goes on quillette to argue on grounds of biological determinism for polyamory, including suggesting allying with "tradlife pro-natalists".
Uhm. Wow.
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