Roko presents: Tradhumanism! "The idea is that instead of using technology to turn people into freaks with pink hair and prosthetic arms, we should use it to create a future that allows people to express an idealized version of the past." This might be the perfect rationalist convergence.

u/an_thr 90 points at 1608234518.000000

You, a pink-haired degenerate: a shorter work week, improved quality life expectancy

Me, a thought leader: 10 billion RoboSlaves™ hunted by the Basilisk in the Ancient Greece of my mind’s eye

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u/N0_B1g_De4l 43 points at 1608246675.000000

The second one sounds like a better premise for a science fiction novel, and I'm unironically like 90% sure that's the basis he uses to make his decisions.

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u/dgerard 42 points at 1608250871.000000

the point of transhumanism has always been to make ~~anime~~ ~~science fiction~~ anime real

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u/Cavelcade 22 points at 1608285606.000000

Shitty Isekai anime - but I repeat myself.

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u/bighunt16 6 points at 1608529999.000000

Like every transhumanist, then?

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u/garnet420 2 points at 1682801466.000000

Enh, I sometimes consider myself a transhumanist, and my random flights of fancy are not good premises for science fiction... They might make good background material, at best. (Actually, scratch that, people being able to become trees was literally the plot of a book)

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u/Subrosian_Smithy 64 points at 1608233174.000000

There is, IMO, a viable future for “Tradhumanism”.

There is also a viable future for Posthumanism where people turn themselves into vastly superior entities with weird and outlandish minds.

But there’s no future for Transhumanists with pink hair, piercings and magnets.

Why?

Because at best transhumanism is a state of transition from humanity to something else. At worst it’s out-of-control weirdness signalling with no coherent goal.

“We should realize an idealized version of the past” - definitely a coherent goal to aim for with one (1) single end state that has no internal contradictions whatsoever

“We should become vastly superior entities with weird and outlandish minds” - definitely not weirdness signaling with no coherent goal even though no posthuman end state can be specified in comprehensible terms by definition

“What if we had fun with commercially available technology by dying our hair cute colors and putting magnets in” - AIEEE YOU HAVE NO TRANSITIONAL END STATE AND ARE SUCCUMBING TO SUPERSTIMULUS

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u/Hailanathema 55 points at 1608236907.000000

I feel like you cut off the most sneerable part! >The pink hair and piercings types generally have fertility below replacement so will not last. Like there's something genetic about a pink hair + piercing aesthetic.

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u/kwykwy 50 points at 1608239604.000000

Sounds a lot like "homosexuals can't reproduce so they will die out"

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u/Bradley271 11 points at 1608817259.000000

Also, if we're actually talking about the potential future of transhumanism (which Roko clearly doesn't intend to), artificial wombs are definitely going to a throw a wrench into that equation.

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u/DELETED 8 points at 1608246978.000000

Something something Shakers

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u/ProfColdheart 44 points at 1608241393.000000

Love the implication that the "tradhumanist" mishmash of Victorian moralizing, post-war suburbia, and Davos-on-coke neoliberalism is a "coherent goal" and is not, in fact, "out-of-control weirdness signalling."

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u/TheCandelabra 32 points at 1608249552.000000

Look, I just want to live in the imaginary world that 50s tobacco and/or oil execs created to sell their product, ok? That is my tradition.

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u/M68000 12 points at 1608330525.000000

Can't forget the agribusiness conglomerates! And the Nazi propaganda.

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u/brokenAmmonite 11 points at 1608317028.000000

...you know, that's not a terrible description of steampunk

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u/an_thr 38 points at 1608237679.000000

>"We should realize an idealized version of the past" Is this one on Eco's Ur-Fascism list? I forget.

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u/BoojumG 37 points at 1608238652.000000

Absolutely. The cult of tradition and the rejection of modernism are the first two of his fourteen characteristics.

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u/LordNoodles 24 points at 1608284260.000000

Also > Since a number of people have claimed that this is #Fascism, I should note that I don't think fascism is a good idea; the core problem is that fascism as it existed in the 20th century was fragile due to too much central control from a small number of powerful individuals. > Finding a way to create coordination that's not fragile and centralized, but also not bureaucratic and bloated is actually the core unsolved problem here. Ah yes the main problem with fascism: too fragile and bloated and not hitting the sweet spot between centralization and lack of bureaucratic inefficiencies

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u/supercalifragilism 4 points at 1682800873.000000

Is there a kind of aphasia where you literally can't hear what you sound like to others or is that just narcissism?

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u/LordNoodles 4 points at 1682811856.000000

Narcissism and also this comment is 2 yo so what are you doing here

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u/supercalifragilism 3 points at 1682814223.000000

Haha, how the fuck did this end up in my feed? I must have followed a link from a more recent thread and not realized I was commenting on an old thread.

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u/Derdiedas812 3 points at 1682873799.000000

This was linked in a recent thread and oh, boy, what a treasure was lurking here. Shame I can't wiew the original tweets.

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u/LordNoodles 1 points at 1682874297.000000

leiwand

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u/khsqu 2 points at 1674303613.000000

I am very retro in my transhumanism. Modest even. I only desire (and will do so after, 'assumedly') modest progress, a hentai appendage orw teo, giant tits, and a mostly humanoid, Valkyri Ice (tm) approved physique. Nothing outlandish, maybe some cyberoptics, cluster of clitorises here and there, regeneration, some neurological and hedonic upgrades. My thesis is that if you go fast and completely abandon what's been tested by aeons of evolutionary algorithms, you'll before long become a demon, you loser empathy and you revert to a ruthless machiavellan utility rat race. I will cultivate connection and connectivity to my fellow humans. And I will probably vote for a progress (too much, too fast) taxation. We do this alltogether and we lave no one behind in the cave that doesn't want to immediately come along with us. We go gently into that good, bright eternity. We cultivate good, meaning, love, beauty. David Pearce for God Emperor.

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u/Shitgenstein 51 points at 1608235286.000000

The pink hair, piercings etc aesthetic denotes a cluster of ideas based on not knowing what game theory is

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u/neilplatform1 39 points at 1608236578.000000

I would take a bet that people with pink hair are more likely to reproduce than R+ko and chums.

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u/an_thr 46 points at 1608239592.000000

Real game theorists break into sperm banks and replace all the specimens. You would understand this if you had blue hair.

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u/dgerard 31 points at 1608238432.000000

the pink hair picture suggests that Roko's anime vvaifu cheated on him with one of his other tulpas

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u/dgerard 4 points at 1608631326.000000

or, more simply, that a girl with pink hair kneed him in the balls

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u/dgerard 17 points at 1608238152.000000

> The pink hair, piercings etc aesthetic denotes a cluster of ideas based on not knowing what game theory is the best thing about that one is that it's a reply to just happens to be a fucking Nazi [Rachel Haywire](https://twitter.com/RokoMijicUK/status/1339339527589130244)

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u/cstross 40 points at 1608236952.000000

OK, that’s it, I’m stealing “tradhumanism” for a future dystopian SF novel.

(Ideally they’ll be trying to recreate the early industrial age circa 1800-2100 as interpreted from the few remaining cyberpunk texts that have survived into their present (our future) …)

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u/DividendsofDividends 30 points at 1608259191.000000

If I'm remembering right this is basically the plot to Glasshouse by Charles stross edit: wait are you actually Charles Stross? lmao

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u/JohnBierce 16 points at 1608294905.000000

Yeah that's Charles Stross lol, almost made the exact same comment, then checked username

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u/DELETED 8 points at 1608304537.000000

Stross is a king of reddit. I've lost count of the number of times I've looked up while appreciating a comment to see his username. His blog is great too.

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u/JohnBierce 7 points at 1608304600.000000

Same on Twitter, too.

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u/DELETED 10 points at 1608267721.000000

Criminally underrated book. 10/10 would revolt again.

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u/dgerard 24 points at 1608238231.000000

Roko is your dark side, obviously. If your muse was a developmentally disabled kitten with anger and continence issues.

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u/ProfColdheart 16 points at 1608241310.000000

didn't Stephenson squat this with the neo-Victorians in *A Diamond Age*? (Not that he has a monopoly, obvs)

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u/N0_B1g_De4l 10 points at 1608246077.000000

*Too Like the Lightning* does it too, though there it's more like "future as utopia of the past" than "future as re-creation of the past".

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u/DELETED 4 points at 1608275826.000000

Ooh, I'll throw The Rax onto the pile, from The Corporation Wars by Ken Macleod

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u/LiminalSouthpaw 32 points at 1608234372.000000

I liked the part where the only problem with fascism was authoritarianism.

The prohibition of free expression is almost more central to fascism than authoritarianism, in my opinion. Some fascist movements were even “democratic” to a certain degree - just so long as the ideal of having no free thought was met.

In the end, the reactionaries will wear the slave implants willingly.

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u/kwykwy 29 points at 1608239842.000000

Missed this great part: >The West has far too much freedom and needs to give people the option to voluntarily constrain themselves: in food, in sex, in religion and in the computational inputs they accept.

It’s neo-Puritanism

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u/ProfColdheart 18 points at 1608241581.000000

um you can voluntarily restrain your food, sex, and religion inputs in the West, it's called Murfreesboro, TN.

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u/DELETED 10 points at 1608268131.000000

Nashville here, you gave me a chuckle. Also, you might appreciate this: https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/2014/10/02/tonight-show-comedians-worst-gig-ever-murfreesboro/16587601/

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u/SelectivePressure 8 points at 1608526983.000000

It doesn’t look like the portion restrictions are working there.

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u/beth-zerowidthspace 28 points at 1608242501.000000

What are the different failures of freedom?

- Food freedom: The Food Optimizer, Obesity

- Sex Freedom: Loneliness, catladies, incels

- Computer freedom: Social media addiction, etc

- Religious freedom: out of control virtue signalling

You heard it here first; cat ladies are one of the big failures of Western society.

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u/N0_B1g_De4l 24 points at 1608246374.000000

The whole thing is just "stop liking stuff I don't like". What definition of "virtue signaling" could you possibly use that wouldn't include "let's use technology that doesn't exist to accomplish an impossible goal that aligns with out aesthetics"?

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u/Cavelcade 21 points at 1608295080.000000

The fact that we aren't all multicoloured catgirls already is definitely a failure of western society.

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u/PTI_brabanson 15 points at 1608250010.000000

>Religious freedom: out of control virtue signalling This makes absolutely zero sense to me. How is having monopoly of one religion (or atheism) supposed to curb "virtue signalling"?

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u/VapeKarlMarx 21 points at 1608243873.000000

I want this o happen to this man. I want him to live the life of a midevel english pesant with nothing to do and nothing to distract him from the perfection of his self watering farm and self thatching roof.

Just sittijg by the self fueling clean fire and whittling the self healing stick.

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u/TheCandelabra 13 points at 1608249813.000000

Ah, a true scholar of Marx, I see.

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u/DELETED 22 points at 1608251871.000000

The pink hair and piercings types generally have fertility below replacement so will not last.

And as we know, pink hair and piercings are a strictly hereditary trait

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u/dgerard 22 points at 1608253534.000000

you'd think so from my house

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u/JohnBierce 15 points at 1608295101.000000

Lysenkoist evolution in humans confirmed

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u/DELETED 16 points at 1608239435.000000

look if he took the arguments of his enemies seriously he wouldn’t be a very good reactionary would he

https://mobile.twitter.com/mutual_ayyde/status/1339329963678298112

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u/M68000 15 points at 1608237616.000000

Wow, that sounds…completely boring! Endless stagnation and the death of imagination for all!

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u/dgerard 13 points at 1608230584.000000

archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20201217183803/https://twitter.com/RokoMijicUK/status/1339314499397050372

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u/deadcelebrities 25 points at 1608239602.000000

Returning to the mythic past is totally viable, guys! I am a smart rational guy and not a dumb fascist

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u/textlossarcade 11 points at 1608263186.000000

When you’re definitely not fash:

https://twitter.com/RokoMijicUK/status/1339390220421230593?s=20

Since a number of people have claimed that this is #Fascism, I should note that I don’t think fascism is a good idea; the core problem is that fascism as it existed in the 20th century was fragile due to too much central control from a small number of powerful individuals.

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u/codemuncher 8 points at 1608261137.000000

Snow crash did it better and decades ago.

Checkmate “rationalists”

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u/DELETED 6 points at 1608267123.000000

Srsly, though, that Tolkien elf bit, nuh uh. Somebody needs to @ Steven Colbert to tear that dude apart. Elves are not shitty technofash, no matter how many thousands of dollars you spent on warhammer figurines.

I’ll go back to my locker now.

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u/Cavelcade 9 points at 1608295317.000000

Feanor and most of his sons were, tbf. Y'know, the baddies.

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u/finfinfin 9 points at 1608298702.000000

Yeah Fëanor did do at least a few things wrong.

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u/Cavelcade 6 points at 1608319459.000000

You would say that, though. Fingolgonrod.

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u/finfinfin 6 points at 1608320308.000000

All I'm saying is that when everyone up to and including the valar, even people who can literally see the future consequences of your actions, say that you shouldn't swear that oath, then you were warned and have only yourself to blame.

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u/DELETED 7 points at 1608353349.000000

Elvish original sin: swear revenge on a dark god, incur the Doom of Mandos, That's What I Call Kinslaying Vol. 1 through 3, redistribution of boats, wage war for 5000 years, etc. Human original sin: maybe touched a penis idk

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u/Conscious_Print_92 6 points at 1608315414.000000

Cool, another pawn of the patriarchy determined to ruin the future.

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u/DELETED 12 points at 1608230813.000000

[deleted]

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u/completely-ineffable 36 points at 1608232751.000000

Rip transportation

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u/DELETED 13 points at 1608233423.000000

[deleted]

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u/snafuchs 18 points at 1608238146.000000

True tradportation

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u/DaveyJF 25 points at 1608232022.000000

Sorry Transylvanians!

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u/textlossarcade 5 points at 1608263458.000000

With one very Tim Curryish exception

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u/RainbowwDash 20 points at 1608232489.000000

A lot of -gender people are also -humanist because of the obvious implications (which 'reddit nerd' type -humanists of course reject)

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u/dgerard 11 points at 1608302532.000000

🖐 transhumanists ☞ trans humanists

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u/Citrakayah 2 points at 1608244474.000000

I can definitely see how gender reassignment and similar surgical and hormonal procedures lead to uploading your mind into an immortal floating metal sphere that learns instantly like in the Matrix, then assuming direct control over a remote-controlled drone army. /s I get the logical connection between gender reassignment surgery and aesthetic procedures like giving yourself scales, but that's generally not what transhumanists (even the transhumanists you speak of) talk about--at least, based off what I've seen. I think it's fair to say that the primary interest of transhumanist ideology is more in the "floating metal sphere" realm. The rhetoric usually focuses on expanding capability.

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u/RainbowwDash 13 points at 1608248488.000000

There is no (good) reason why something like SRS should be less transhumanist than becoming a floating metal sphere, and there's plenty of people who are in favour of the former and think the latter is silly at best while also calling themselves transhumanist.

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u/Citrakayah 8 points at 1608256410.000000

SRS isn't transhumanist no matter how transhumanists try to claim it as such--it is not an "enhancement" in the same vein as connection between your brain and the Internet, superstrong bionic muscles, enhanced reflexes, et cetera. At most the hormone treatments have a slight effect on musculature and the like, but that remains within normal human ranges. With the very broad definition of transhumanism--"using technology to change the human body"--it would count, but such a definition quickly proves too much and becomes absurd. Ritual scarification changes the human body. It is done with technology such as stone tools or fire. Therefore primitivists, who are fine with such practices, are transhumanists, and most cultures back to the dawn of the human species have been transhumanist. Therefore the term means nothing. Such a broad expansion of the term, as far as I can tell, really only serves to cast turning people into robots, unnecessary invasive surgery, and ubiquitous brain-computer interfaces as in no way new or different from anything that's come before, delegitimizing any objections to any of those things. The attempt to claim SRS as transhumanist is really quite a new thing, and it isn't in line with what transhumanists historically have been interested in, or what the primary transhumanist organizations are interested in. The main people I see claiming it are a few left transhumanists, which are by far a minority of transhumanist thought--the majority are types like Bostrom and Kurzweil. > there's plenty of people who are in favour of the former and think the latter is silly at best while also calling themselves transhumanist. You are the first one I've seen, and the others promote stuff like [this](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/william-gillis-the-floating-metal-sphere-trump-card) pretty often with no pushback from other transhumanists.

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u/Jeep-Eep 7 points at 1608479653.000000

Is there any other trans folks who are quite aggro about not wanting to be associated with those wankers?

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u/TheAncientGeek 2 points at 1680132494.000000

So Dune Universe, space pirates, etc.

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