posted on January 22, 2021 06:16 PM by
u/Masebrock
184
u/Masebrock48 pointsat 1611339718.000000
It’s true that if we don’t do anything about climate change could all
die, but have you considered that would be giving-the-leftists-and-inch?
Much to consider
We’ve first got to weigh the “cons” of the existentialist threat to
humanity against the “pros” of owning the libs.
Just take a look at u/southkraut 's profile. The guy is the very embodiment of the insufferable conservative twat.
"I refuse to do anything about one of the biggest threats to humanity because like an infantile little shit, I just want to 'own the libs'.
Quote so you don’t have to read all of it: >Climate change is
real, and may well be catastrophic, but I’ll never support any policies
against it because they’re all tainted[…]CACC warners are all
watermelons until proven otherwise. Environmentalism comes bundled with
so much socialist and social justice material, overt or covert, that
I’ll never accept any of it as sincere unless the one promoting it is
willing to eat a rare steak, deadname a trans-something, step on a dog’s
tail, kick a poor person, buy something from amazon and say the n-word
just to prove that they’re more committed to the environment than to the
moral transformation of society.
> I'll never accept any of it as sincere unless the one promoting it is willing to eat a rare steak, deadname a trans-something, step on a dog's tail, kick a poor person
I will not accept it unless the person promoting it is evil is a weird fucking take. It is like this person learned their politics from reading [tvtropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KickTheDog)
their mental image of a "lib" is just... so chimerical.
" \[...\] step on a dog's tail, kick a poor person \[...\] " - the proximity of these two actions in the quoted list too..
I also wonder if they have any opinion on the violence antifa is willing to do to fight fascism. (prob very bad as it is very likely this guy is a secret neo-nazi ([work will set you free](https://old.reddit.com/r/TheMotte/comments/iijrxr/post_an_example_of_a_time_when_you_changed_your/g37zdkb/)). (This person also firmly believes that letting foreigners into your culture destroys your culture and the work ethic and creates a 'low trust' society, something far right racists also talk about a lot).
(and is all pretty weird, I know enough leftwingers who are pro nuclear power (even if atm it is prob way to late, and unsafe (nuclear power needs access to water) to use it to fight climate change).
E:It is also weird how much the greens get blamed for everything in European politics (and in the thread), not in power anywhere, but still always blamed for anything (even for things that was actually cased by the liberal right, it is crazy).
Either hiding their power level, or sliding merrily rightward.
Greens, as well as any other environmental parties are just convenient bogeymen.
The thing that really grinds my gears is the use of "Watermelon" as a snarl word to imply bad faith/ideological motivation in environmental campaigners. Basically a conspiracy theory-lite.
>deadname a trans-something, step on a dog's tail, kick a poor person
This is quite an admission. They think conservatism is evil, but rather than being repulsed by the evil, they relish it and expect you to embrace their pointless cruelty as well.
Their goal is to find a person who cares *only* about environmental issues. Which will never be satisfied, because people generally have coherent and overlapping belief systems. This allows them to continue eating steak.
They're looking for eco-fascists, which are generally incoherent and willing to put on the guise of caring about the environment and it alone for the sake of killing poor people/minorities.
I think the presidency of Trump proves that the mottean brand of conservatism is about suffering and inflicting it on others. The cruelty is the point.
The important thing, is that we never address the questions of how or why we got to this point.
No "moral lessons" should be learned, no societal transformation.
Undoubtedly worse. I'd take someone who only cared about dealing with climate change and was completely apathetic about anything else over a fool who believed that being a giant douchebag was a workable solution.
Watermelon (Citrullus lanatus) is a flowering plant species of the Cucurbitaceae family . A scrambling and trailing vine-like plant, it was originally domesticated in Africa.
More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watermelon
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This is actually a reasonable political principle from an otherwise stupid and bigoted person
Less “slippery-slope” than “if I open the door for you I’m going to end up on the floor”
Like I say, bigoted and stupid, but as a mere principle it’s a principle I’ve pointed to in justifying my own opposition to compromising with people I despise even where we agree on a single issue
Jesus, why can't I just care about both and acknowledge that the two can be linked but aren't always? I wouldn't do any of that shit before I got more into environmentalism.
Also, I like my steaks medium-rare, so there's that.
Naomi Klein actually makes this point in This Changes
Everything: that both conservatives and socialists agree that it
would take a complete unmaking of capitalism to stave off the
existential threat of climate change. The only difference is in how they
react to that conclusion.
One of the biggest inspirations for my political priorities was [this Matt Christman rant](https://youtu.be/fEDHftSJFgs?t=11m28s), where right-wingers (especially of the younger alt-right variety) secretly agree that Global Warming is a thing, and it's gonna cause massive ecological migrations, and because they don't want to redistribute wealth or treat immigrants and minorities as equals, they spend a lot of time preparing everyone to the moral acceptance of future mass genocide.
Climate change is the latest episode in a 500-year history of violence and predation perpetrated by the Global North against the Global South --- these guys are saying the quiet part loud.
So hundreds of years ago people were planning this? Predation implies intent. Is there actually anything that happens, ever, for any reason, that can’t be folded into this narrative with enough willpower?
> So hundreds of years ago people were planning this?
Planning global warming? What? Of course not.
>Predation implies intent.
The transatlantic slave trade was intentional. This [WSJ piece about how you should invest in Canadian farmland](https://archive.md/WzTWg) is intentional. The commonality is that the Global North uses its greater economic and political power to impose its will on the Global South.
edit: just to spell it out, imagine if Gabon and Tuvalu were doing something that threatened the habitability of the USA, instead of the other way around? We'd bomb the shit out of them.
I just want to note that there are proposed capitalist solutions to climate change as well, in particular the idea of a carbon tax. It would still require a substantial restructuring of society, but in a capitalistic manner.
I’d rather deal with an existential physical catastrophe than give
power to people who think animal life is comparable in value to human
life, or who think saving the Maldives is worth changing the way of life
of everyone in Europe.
This was my favorite sentence, because it reads "Someone else doesn't value human life as much as animal life, so I'm going to make sure all human lives are worse."
And the **immediate following paragraph** was:
>And certainly I'd like for all mankind to be able to sit down, have a reasonable discussion, all make concessions to each other in so far as we each find tolerable, and figure out how much changing our ways of life we're willing to accept in order to prevent catastrophes
"I love to have rational discussions, unless they disagree with me, in which case they should drown."
Amazing that he basically understands that environmental protection
is impossible without socialism, but he’s so committed to being a vile
person that his conclusion is “well then fuck the planet”
I agree there's an appaling lack of empathy, but it can't just be that. People ought to care about climate change out of naked self-interest alone, and yet, they don't. Like if this guy were a douchebag techbro living in the SF Bay Area, he would have been choking on wildfire smoke for a few months. I think people just can't imagine that the relative comfort and stability of their current lives could change for drastically worse. Plus, the productive political path forward is unclear to most people. Doing anything about climate change right now is hard, but owning the libs is always fun and easy.
Lack of empathy alone wouldn't do it. If you lack empathy or have had cause to suppress/atrophy the feeling, you might approximate it in important matters with something the Golden Rule. This guy lacks empathy and critical faculties.
> I always remember the story of a person who was alt-right and became a leftist after doing drugs and realising other people had feelings.
IIRC the person was originally a libertarian.
Props where props are due, he is doing exactly the same thing every
single other climate-sceptical republican is, but he at least has enough
self awareness to admit the reason he doesn’t want to do anything about
it is pure unfiltered pettiness towards people he doesn’t like on a
personal level. Most others just deny the existence altogether and call
it a day.
We're achieving new breakthroughs in the discourse every day.
By 2028, "I want to watch the world burn, out of pure spite!" will receive roaring applause at the Republican Primary debates.
Their desire to maintain capitalism and hierarchies as they exist
despite that doing so condemns civilisation and the biosphere to
collapse—and untold suffering—perfectly illustrates why (and how) they
are active participants in a death cult. It’s base sadism.
People have long speculated on how conservatives will react when climate change reaches an intensity where it becomes untenable to deny it as fact of reality.
It turns out the answer is: "I'd rather die, than cooperate with someone who won't say the n-word".
Look, the watermelons are going to stretch our kebab meat with soy meal. To prevent this fate, how many lives in the countries that make our commodities are worth losing? Trick question: the answer is as many as it takes.
if they did he’d move the goalposts again, “well, you don’t scream
the gamer word as much as i do, so you aren’t ACTUALLY concerned with
saving civilization”
Working with (or more likely for) someone like that would make it
very hard to work with most centre left people.
Centre left people are lots of scientists, many (non-silicon valley?)
tech people. People whose help you would need to actually make a dent in
climate change.
It doesn’t seem like a good trade-off.
I’m personally happy to do as little societal change as is necessary
to solve climate change, so as not to antagonize the centre/right too
much. Because having a habitable planet is more important than the
distribution of the pie. I don’t think jumping in bed with the right
would actually get anything done though, they’re too focussed on owning
the libs.
So concerning those claims about nuclear power (that opposition to it
started out as astroturfed and funded by the fossil fuel industry etc.),
how much of this holds up? As I understand it, nuclear power isn’t that
widespread because its simply not very economical for the businesses
running the plants and only turns a profit if the government steps
in.
This kind of people are braindead. Conservatism and Traditionalism
FAILED US. We need a new society willing to accept change and
improvement. We don’t need afraid conservacucks crying because they
can’t say slurs.
It’s true that if we don’t do anything about climate change could all die, but have you considered that would be giving-the-leftists-and-inch? Much to consider
We’ve first got to weigh the “cons” of the existentialist threat to humanity against the “pros” of owning the libs.
Quote so you don’t have to read all of it: >Climate change is real, and may well be catastrophic, but I’ll never support any policies against it because they’re all tainted[…]CACC warners are all watermelons until proven otherwise. Environmentalism comes bundled with so much socialist and social justice material, overt or covert, that I’ll never accept any of it as sincere unless the one promoting it is willing to eat a rare steak, deadname a trans-something, step on a dog’s tail, kick a poor person, buy something from amazon and say the n-word just to prove that they’re more committed to the environment than to the moral transformation of society.
Climate change may kill a lot of people but it also owns a lot of libs so it;s impossible to say whether it’s bad or not
Naomi Klein actually makes this point in This Changes Everything: that both conservatives and socialists agree that it would take a complete unmaking of capitalism to stave off the existential threat of climate change. The only difference is in how they react to that conclusion.
Actual psychopath. What the fuck
Amazing that he basically understands that environmental protection is impossible without socialism, but he’s so committed to being a vile person that his conclusion is “well then fuck the planet”
I always remember the story of a person who was alt-right and became a leftist after doing drugs and realising other people had feelings.
It’s weird to think about it, but empathy is a thing some people simply don’t feel, but it also shouldn’t be surprising.
As the person in that post clearly shows, empathy is not something rewarded in capitalism, it is actually actively discouraged and punished.
Props where props are due, he is doing exactly the same thing every single other climate-sceptical republican is, but he at least has enough self awareness to admit the reason he doesn’t want to do anything about it is pure unfiltered pettiness towards people he doesn’t like on a personal level. Most others just deny the existence altogether and call it a day.
Their desire to maintain capitalism and hierarchies as they exist despite that doing so condemns civilisation and the biosphere to collapse—and untold suffering—perfectly illustrates why (and how) they are active participants in a death cult. It’s base sadism.
I’m genuinely awestruck at how fucking terrible this take is.
The worst thread I’ve ever read. Jesus, these guys need to be bullied so hard, whiny nerds
if they did he’d move the goalposts again, “well, you don’t scream the gamer word as much as i do, so you aren’t ACTUALLY concerned with saving civilization”
Look what you made me do!
Very utilitarian, very rational, not mindkilled at all
OK now they’re just plagiarizing WSJ op-eds
https://www.wsj.com/articles/climate-change-has-run-its-course-1528152876
Damn, you weren’t exaggerating with the title lmao
Interesting take, however, I have a counteroffer: Fascists like this are no longer allowed to vote or use the internet.
Working with (or more likely for) someone like that would make it very hard to work with most centre left people.
Centre left people are lots of scientists, many (non-silicon valley?) tech people. People whose help you would need to actually make a dent in climate change.
It doesn’t seem like a good trade-off.
I’m personally happy to do as little societal change as is necessary to solve climate change, so as not to antagonize the centre/right too much. Because having a habitable planet is more important than the distribution of the pie. I don’t think jumping in bed with the right would actually get anything done though, they’re too focussed on owning the libs.
So concerning those claims about nuclear power (that opposition to it started out as astroturfed and funded by the fossil fuel industry etc.), how much of this holds up? As I understand it, nuclear power isn’t that widespread because its simply not very economical for the businesses running the plants and only turns a profit if the government steps in.
oh god I’m dooming
Eco fascism was also prominent at the Capitol insurrection
This kind of people are braindead. Conservatism and Traditionalism FAILED US. We need a new society willing to accept change and improvement. We don’t need afraid conservacucks crying because they can’t say slurs.
Lmao, r/TheMotte. Probably the biggest collection of insufferable, arrogant nutjobs on reddit.