First, is there a meaningful distinction between a cult and a group
which is frequently described as a cult by its ex-members? How would you
recognize one from the other?
Second,
so i’ve been less directly concerned with “abuse against minors” than
I am about a particular kind of really dangerous hypocrisy, which says
that people are only allowed to make choices for themselves if those
choices match the group moral consensus.
It’s wild how even the folks who get
out are still FUBAR. I wonder where the primary causality is here –
this group attracts people with fucked up ideas, or produces them?
The sociology literature on “cults” (so-called or actual) emphasises the role of reinforcement techniques, which creates ex-members who still have issues after leaving. As a result it’s very chicken and egg. Some ex-members will have been susceptible to ideas that get reinforced in the first place, while others will have found themselves influenced by certain ideas and wound up carrying them on even after deciding to leave the cult.
Osho and the Human Potential Movement is one of my favourite examples: taken in by his wit and rhetoric, even people who quit the cult upon realising how fucked up everything was went on to advocate for ideas they’d picked up from him.
It’s not uncommon to hear about ex-religious cult members talk about how they still think the teachings are true, only that the current leadership has gone astray.
Yeah we get that in waves on here whenever there’s a prominent scandal, in fact as a mod I often find myself trying to discourage that kind of talk because ex-pats from the rationalists can clog up the sub when that happens, and we the mods often get misunderstood as defectors from rationalism elsewhere on the internet
Some of them are pretty good, and the casual nature of the sub means I don’t want to put off otherwise perfectly nice seeming people from hanging around, even if they’re not great writers
The ones that annoy me are the presumptuous and the ones which haven’t gotten over the rationalist house style with all that rambling and especially the ones packed with jargon
This is still supposed to be a fun rather than an activist space, but it has provided a public service in the past to actual victims, and I don’t want to compromise that
If it helps I’ve heard about this new sight called “google” that uses keywords and other things to help you find out things you didn’t know or have trouble remembering
(Sorry I’m just being a dick, I don’t mean anything by that)
> really dangerous hypocrisy, which says that people are only allowed to make choices for themselves if those choices match the group moral consensus.
Why am I not allowed to murder people? I'm not morally opposed to murder, it is the group consensus which is against murder. (What im trying to say here is 'group moral consensus' is doing a lot of work here).
Brent Dill is an abusive manipulative narcissistic psychopath to a
degree most of even seriously deranged rationalists don’t even come
close. I wish this post contained some revelations that could really
help shed light on what’s actually going on in these group houses, but
it looks to me like his attempt to paint himself as a victim and deflect
blame.
Confessions of formerly local rapist Brent Dill, to involvement with
the rationality community’s coverups. Mixed with with conspiracy theory,
potentially mixed with some lies. He’s a thoroughly evil man, by his own
history and statements unlikely to stop repeating his history in this
community
Also, if Thiel’s $ is involved, it won’t be the last time we’ll hear
of the rationalists - although Yud and co will eventually, actually die.
Maybe generations of rationalists will emerge, and it will become
embarassing to sneer once little rationalists whose parents read them
the Sequences to sleep and play “Motte and Bailey” appear.
Ziz is like all these people, smart enough and always paying
attention and thinking, yet some bizarre single warping interpretive
aspect constantly present in everything they do - unable to stop it no
matter how philosophical they are
It’s like someone telling you they are bulimic, then when you tell
them that’s upsetting news, they tell you they have to be able to say
their truth to you and be free, that you shouldn’t have reacted like
that. They use some sort of rhetoric to justify perverting your
worldview and making you their accomplice. They are also
passive-aggressively jealous, bored and annoyed unless they can convert
you into a bulimic and barf with you.
These people are always grooming you in some way, it’s their
natural way of being.
pfft ok
i used 'they' because i went in and out of talking about ziz, 'people like that' and the community she's a part of
sorry not sorry. ziz is not gonna be my hero just because she's not as bad as brent dill
Yes, being asked to be mindful of the way you talk about trans women is exactly like being asked to worship them and forgive them of their wrongs. Obviously.
2 thoughts:
First, is there a meaningful distinction between a cult and a group which is frequently described as a cult by its ex-members? How would you recognize one from the other?
Second,
It’s wild how even the folks who get out are still FUBAR. I wonder where the primary causality is here – this group attracts people with fucked up ideas, or produces them?
Brent Dill is an abusive manipulative narcissistic psychopath to a degree most of even seriously deranged rationalists don’t even come close. I wish this post contained some revelations that could really help shed light on what’s actually going on in these group houses, but it looks to me like his attempt to paint himself as a victim and deflect blame.
Context?Ah, via the comments:
Also, if Thiel’s $ is involved, it won’t be the last time we’ll hear of the rationalists - although Yud and co will eventually, actually die. Maybe generations of rationalists will emerge, and it will become embarassing to sneer once little rationalists whose parents read them the Sequences to sleep and play “Motte and Bailey” appear.
there’s an awful lot of words on this blog
tfw no bestself factory to forcibly mold everyone into beings that can only make right choices
Why hasn’t Brent been arrested yet?
Ziz is like all these people, smart enough and always paying attention and thinking, yet some bizarre single warping interpretive aspect constantly present in everything they do - unable to stop it no matter how philosophical they are
It’s like someone telling you they are bulimic, then when you tell them that’s upsetting news, they tell you they have to be able to say their truth to you and be free, that you shouldn’t have reacted like that. They use some sort of rhetoric to justify perverting your worldview and making you their accomplice. They are also passive-aggressively jealous, bored and annoyed unless they can convert you into a bulimic and barf with you.
These people are always grooming you in some way, it’s their natural way of being.
Natural Born Groomers