posted on October 09, 2021 12:42 AM by
u/textlossarcade
31
u/cmhamill51 pointsat 1633746018.000000
But of course we don’t do that. We stick with the prisons and the
rape and the kids who go work at McDonalds because they can’t afford
college. Why? Progressives!
I got something very different out of Foucault than this guy did.
Wait, so the status quo of the criminal justice system is arguably
more cruel than barbaric lashings? Guess we gotta go with the lashings
then, because these are the only two options for some reason??
They really love this technique don’t they, reminds me of all the
contrarian “sweatshops are better than starvation” takes, as if there
isn’t a third option of actual justice available.
I may be wrong, but I haven't figured out where the justice comes from. The problem is large enough and the available resources small enough it may be tragically necessary to pursue all options not just foreign aid but also charity and capitalism (poor countries could accept foreign capital for now and nationalize it or tax capital in the future when their economy is strong enough to fund domestic investment)
On the one hand, Luxembourg/Norway/Sweden are the most generous so I don't want to shame, but on the other hand even if every country matched them (gigantic if) it wouldn't be enough https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_development_aid_country_donors
If no country on earth is socially conscious enough to do sufficient foreign aid, that sucks and requires more creative thinking than I can come up with.
PS most sweatshops are worse than subsistence farming, if only there was enough arable land that this option was available to all who need it
On my way to realising how full of shit Scott is I went through a
phase of thinking he was ok as long as you steered clear of anything he
said about social politics, but holy shit I didn’t remember it being
this bad even back then. “The prison system is fucked up and we should
drastically reduce the sentences if only pRoGrEsSiVeS weren’t against
it!” is certainly a take.
It gets even dumber when you consider the implication that other
major blocs would be on board. Imagine a kind of guy who thinks Mitch
would be in favour of abolishing incarceration in favour of some
lashes.
At least the top responses are about different ways this is stupid
and the weirdness lies deeper down.
Another thing which is bad, the whole rape inhumane thing is very american. Scandinavian prisons seem very nice, just look at brevinks accommodations, but even dutch prisons ship prisoners around who have a life sentence, so they dont always are in the same place. There is so little curiosity towards the rest of the world (this is in addition to the refusal to just look at what actual progressives mean, instead of skimming what they said and first principalling the rest. (Im reminded of the people going 'the left never thinks of combatting rent seeking' while the dutch left was actually talking about that in government at that time). (I meant scott/reactionaries initially, not the recent ssc post which I have not read totally (it is amazing how much more free time you get when you just go 'this is all stupid' and no longer keep up with the Rationalists sphere, even if this does mean my sneering become a lot worse and less topical over time)).
Also, as people there refuse to do the reading, or any research, I know from 20 years ago lawyers were looking into automating the law, and that this has a lot of complicated law related issues. So the 'just AI it'thinking is very stupid. (Which, even odder, was the point of the 'we have noticed the skulls' article, that non experts dont realize what the experts in a field actually are talking about. No idea how far the law automation field moved in 20 years).
Scoot's mental universe never really extends beyond the US - you can see this in "how the west was won" where he proclaims that "Universal Culture" (a la Banks' "The Culture") has permanently devoured all traditional culture and is superior to nonwestern cultures that say, stubbornly drink yak milk and that simultaneously Western civ will win and absorb the best parts of "Islamic" and "Asian" civilization. The whole Huntingtonian "civilizations" bullshit only makes sense in the Neocon American context
It’s not so much that they aren’t willing, able, or prone to read or research. They are quite happy to look at certain things in their minutiae.
They fetishize the esoteric, that which will be done in the glorious future, or was done in the once great past, or is being done in a culture foreign to their own. I think this because so many of them hate the society that they are actually in, the “normal” people all around them. They have never felt like they fit in, which, hey, I get. But, their preferred solution is to burn the world they know.
Yeah, I've come to believe that the harsh prison sentences are more about just locking up certain groups since (the people who want do this believe) they'll inevitably commit crimes. The idea isn't to disincentivize crime by having people get locked up, it's to just keep them out of society. These "tough on crime" people are never going to support corporal punishment because it'll mean "criminals back on the streets".
That whole discussion is just completely idiotic… ok 5 lashes better
for the society than 5 years.
Hows about what ever time frame people are indifferent about vs 5
lashes? (Done in some hypothetical modern physically safe way not
resulting in expensive hospital stays)? 1 day? 5 days?
Its like ok US punishments are too severe, now let me get really
fucking weird about it.
Then on top of said reactionary idiotism they add brain emulations
and AI.
Me, reading the neoreaction FAQ circa 2015: “I mean… I guess they do
KIND OF have a point that corporal punishment is potentially less cruel
than long prison terms, long prison terms take you away from your family
and prevent you from having a job and make it more likely that you’ll
commit more crime in the future… but surely there’s a better way to deal
with crime than just hitting people?”
Me, circa 2021: “Yup. Abolish prisons AND ALSO don’t just hit
people.”
(There are a small handful of things I read on SSC that I remain
grateful for reading because they shook up my
mainstream-leftish-Democrat sensibilities… and pushed me in a vaguely
left-anarchist direction. Like, thanks for the recommendation to read
“Seeing Like a State,” but I don’t think I got out of it the same things
you did, Scott!)
I’m 100% for a better “Criminal Justice” system, but “eliminate prisons” is just a bullshit, facile, I’m-mad-at-the-state-of-the-world take. It’s not an answer to the fundamental question, which is how do you deal with a real problem?
“People” do bad things. They’re are constantly those who act in bad faith, because they get something out of it. No, “society”, “the free market”, “socialism”, whatever, will not stop this.
You’d think Sneer Club, of all places, would be aware of this. Whatever you want to call it, removing freedom of action has to be part of the possible consequences in dealing with people who engage in behavior damaging to others.
i like how the reactionary position on corporal punishment is
apparently just an argument against incarceration + arbitrarily deciding
that we should be whipping people
I got something very different out of Foucault than this guy did.
Oh for fucks sake
Wait, so the status quo of the criminal justice system is arguably more cruel than barbaric lashings? Guess we gotta go with the lashings then, because these are the only two options for some reason??
They really love this technique don’t they, reminds me of all the contrarian “sweatshops are better than starvation” takes, as if there isn’t a third option of actual justice available.
On my way to realising how full of shit Scott is I went through a phase of thinking he was ok as long as you steered clear of anything he said about social politics, but holy shit I didn’t remember it being this bad even back then. “The prison system is fucked up and we should drastically reduce the sentences if only pRoGrEsSiVeS weren’t against it!” is certainly a take.
It gets even dumber when you consider the implication that other major blocs would be on board. Imagine a kind of guy who thinks Mitch would be in favour of abolishing incarceration in favour of some lashes.
At least the top responses are about different ways this is stupid and the weirdness lies deeper down.
That whole discussion is just completely idiotic… ok 5 lashes better for the society than 5 years.
Hows about what ever time frame people are indifferent about vs 5 lashes? (Done in some hypothetical modern physically safe way not resulting in expensive hospital stays)? 1 day? 5 days?
Its like ok US punishments are too severe, now let me get really fucking weird about it.
Then on top of said reactionary idiotism they add brain emulations and AI.
What about 3↑↑↑3 lashes vs 50 years in prison?
Me, reading the neoreaction FAQ circa 2015: “I mean… I guess they do KIND OF have a point that corporal punishment is potentially less cruel than long prison terms, long prison terms take you away from your family and prevent you from having a job and make it more likely that you’ll commit more crime in the future… but surely there’s a better way to deal with crime than just hitting people?”
Me, circa 2021: “Yup. Abolish prisons AND ALSO don’t just hit people.”
(There are a small handful of things I read on SSC that I remain grateful for reading because they shook up my mainstream-leftish-Democrat sensibilities… and pushed me in a vaguely left-anarchist direction. Like, thanks for the recommendation to read “Seeing Like a State,” but I don’t think I got out of it the same things you did, Scott!)
i like how the reactionary position on corporal punishment is apparently just an argument against incarceration + arbitrarily deciding that we should be whipping people
when they talk about 3^^^^3 eyelashes, did they mean lashes to people’s eyes?