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Don't know if this fits here, but I have to ask, who is 'ziz'? (https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/qcy4fz/dont_know_if_this_fits_here_but_i_have_to_ask_who/)
posted on October 21, 2021 06:26 PM by u/ImperialFister04
21

I’ve seen a recent post by someone on this ‘ziz’ character, I read through the linked webpage and gleaned basically nothing of substance other than that she is a rationalist with a hardon for cult-like practices.

So, what’s the deal with this person? Sorry if this doesn’t fit into the realm of ‘sneering’.

u/dgerard 27 points at 1634855902.000000

LessWrong as a cult-generator

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u/xmcqdpt2 20 points at 1634872521.000000
(Intro post) We are LessWrong (YC 11) and we are building a platform for cults!
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u/Soyweiser 8 points at 1634900241.000000
I mean, say what you like about the tenets of lesswrong, Dude, at least it has a good elevator pitch.
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u/DELETED 19 points at 1634845430.000000

Someone who disliked CFAR so much they showed up in cult robes to protest and yelldd at the police due their “no surrender” doctrine

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u/dizekat 28 points at 1634851072.000000
I think that description misses a crucial background info, which is that she used to be an earnest true believer who split off into her own brand of crazy which is as bad and sneerworthy as the original. MIRI had to update their grift to keep up with the times; their 1960s image of AI was barely plausible even when they started, but it really lost all steam in mid 2010s. That update towards embracing neural networks and such made them a target of their own earlier attempts at mild stochastic terrorism.
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u/sindikat 18 points at 1634855316.000000
I stumbled upon Ziz a few months back. Her writings are Time Cube level of insanity. It's completely detached from reality batshit nonsense. I have no idea why some commenters here take her seriously at all.
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u/noactuallyitspoptart 4 points at 1635146900.000000
> I have no idea why some commenters here take her seriously at all. I count exactly one commenter, whose username I don’t recognise, taking her seriously at all - and being heavily downvoted and countered for it Weird way of looking at the sub
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u/ImperialFister04 15 points at 1634845745.000000
Huh, interesting, this may be a huge rabbit hole, but from reading some of ziz's blog posts her views seem pretty out there, I mean I get hating MIRI and so on, but stuff like unihemispheric sleep in humans? really? Not to mention claiming to have 'mind control powers' and claiming a blog post to be an 'infohazard'.
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u/DELETED 25 points at 1634882287.000000
>infohazard Whenever I see this word it's always a coin toss between "(former) Yud's acolyte" and "SCP Foundation".
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u/Soyweiser 10 points at 1634900397.000000
There was this great list of 'warning signs from the future' which had infohazard on them. It is all very lovecraftian however. E: here is a non pinterest link: https://shewalkssoftly.com/2009/07/20/modern-warning-signs/ I first found these things via the community surrounding the doctor sleepless comic (which also had various warning signs: [[1]](https://cdn.archonia.com/images/1-76900803-1-1-original1/doktor-sleepless-manual-mr.jpg), [[2]](https://cdn.archonia.com/images/1-76900003-1-1-original1/doktor-sleepless-10-warning-sign-var-mr.jpg) there is more). Sadly I cant find a good accessible copy of the big list. (I think these yellow ones were created at the same time as, but independent from the SCP thing).
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u/ImperialFister04 9 points at 1634902913.000000
That's pretty neat actually, I would definitely get a shirt with 'macroscopic quantum system' on it! But in all seriousness, have any of you read the purported 'infohazard, on ziz's blog? And if so, what the hell is it because I can't get my head around it for the life of me! Although that may be the point.
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u/Soyweiser 4 points at 1634905140.000000
I have not, I have read very little ziz. I can't even answer your question correctly. Have a link? Cant promise I will read it, but now im at least a bit curious.
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u/ImperialFister04 4 points at 1634905405.000000
I don't have a link but I think it's called 'Paseks doom' I think the webpage linked in the other post on the matter has the link to it; it's a pretty long essay full of jargon but you should at least have some fun with it. Or you can just look up 'paseks doom' on Google and you should find it.
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u/Soyweiser 4 points at 1634905475.000000
> 'paseks doom' https://sinceriously.fyi/good-group-and-paseks-doom/ ah this one, thanks.
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u/JohnPaulJonesSoda 11 points at 1634910600.000000
> They told me, and did a presentation at the 2017 CFAR alumni reunion about Mental tech to let parts of your brain do REM sleep without the rest. On a granularity of slots of working memory. So, after years of imagining that computers are brains, the rationalists now believe that their brains are computers.
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u/Soyweiser 3 points at 1634910952.000000
This is a very good synopsis, I just had this realization myself in regards to this post. The whole 'if you are not a perfect sociopath people can pwn you' part did it for me.
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u/ImperialFister04 3 points at 1634905532.000000
Yep, that's the one!
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u/Soyweiser 9 points at 1634908016.000000
Ow god what a bunch of bullshit. All these warnings, and then starts off with the personal drama, which ziz makes weird. 'I worry that if I reveal I have mind control powers evil people will murder me' Considering Ziz just defined, failing as death, this is all such bs. Murder here could mean being put away for having what seems like a psychotic break. Also so much jargon.
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u/ImperialFister04 6 points at 1634908336.000000
Yeah it's some pretty weird stuff (which is an understatement). I mean, knowing that her posts are full of jargon, 'mind control powers' could mean any range of things. Plus the whole suggestion that they are 'clones' or something? She *does* define good as something that no definition of good has ever meant, so yeah, we can sort of guage the rest from that. Not to mention the classic 'this is really serious and if you don't take it seriously you just don't get it' tactic. But I didn't see anywhere where she defined failing as death, what does that even mean!?
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u/Soyweiser 3 points at 1634908456.000000
> Well, they were essentially asserting ownership of me. And if they didn’t back down, we then had no cooperative relationship whatsoever, which meant boat and finance hell would drag on for quite some time, be very destructive to me accomplishing anything with my life. I guess I was essentially facing failure-death-I-don’t-much-care-about-the-difference here. Here, quoted with the rest of the context, failure/death there is not much difference. E: these whole weird tonal shift, making it unclear what is actually meant, going from 'im actually in danger of being murdered' to 'im in danger of being stuck in a non world saving state' seems to be a bit common. Always funny to see how bad at communicating the Rationalists are. (which is great for a cult leader of course, have weird ingroup language which is hard to understand or not clear at all, and have some high social status apostles tell people this is actually good stuff. Going: 'well the children who say we are wearing no clothes actually don't understand what we mean, if they would they would join us' is also expected) e2: ow god, they are spreading nests! (Why always 'save the world by creating a libertarian land'? The success rate on that has been 0, and it has been tried so so often)
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u/ImperialFister04 3 points at 1634908921.000000
I generally don't like being overly critical, but man this is hard to read, even with context it makes absolutely zero sense. I see absolutely nothing that could be considered 'infohazardous' in the post. But of course this is all because we 'don't get it' of course!
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u/Soyweiser 5 points at 1634909363.000000
Well, reading it is easier if you read up on all the other previous shit before, so some of the concepts I get. I have read the [ribbonfarm things on Gervais-sociopath](https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/) for example. Which is a funny idea, and there is something there, but more in a general map sense, and not a territory sense. But wanting more Gervais-sociopaths is changing the territory into the map... OW GOD I'M INFECTED I TALK LIKE THEM! (Anyway, the sociopath corporate hierarchy thing is an abstraction of reality, not reality itself, and focusing to much on that stuff is just silly and makes it impossible to talk to normal people, not like the idea 'sociopaths do better in business' is that weird). E: ow lol the random rant about Java. Haha, java is an enterprise level tool, the individual programmers don't matter, what Ziz is complaining about is actually intended. (I read something from somebody involved in Java who opened my eyes on this, and made me appreciate Java more, it is corporate tool, and programmers should be interchangeable (else if somebody dies/leaves, your code is also kaput forever)). (this applies less so to other programming languages Ziz mentions here btw)
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u/ImperialFister04 2 points at 1634909803.000000
Gonna be completely honest with you, I am pretty new to this sub, so a lot of names and concepts are pretty alien to me, I guess finding out about ziz finally made me post because the weirdness was off the charts! But with that said, what is the whole 'Paseks doom' and 'Gervais-sociopath' thing about? For the so called 'infohazard' what is she even trying to achieve with that blog post!? And don't worry, we can cure you!!
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u/Soyweiser 3 points at 1634910562.000000
Sorry I have a weird habit of editing extra text in my posts. Well, Ziz is certainly out there as far as all this Rationalism (as in lesswrong inspired stuff) goes. Paseks doom I have no idea what it is, still have not read that far (Im also very easy to distract, I would prob do well as a rightwing youtube commenter, just react badly to things you just read without reading all of it properly ;), sadly I have a soul). I don't even think this could be considered proper Rationalism. (Nor can Ribbonfarm btw, it is another one of those 'insight generator' blogs) there is however a lot of overlap between all of it, but not in a way I can properly explain. (Why is Ribbonfarm more Rationalist than the IDW, who claim to fight back against the irrational left or something, dunno). The Gervais sociopath is just a certain type of sociopath who will do anything to climb the ladder in a corporation, including stuff which is not in the best interest of the corporation, a disruptive ladderclimber. The abuse the non sociopaths (the clueless in ribbonfarms words) who actually want to work hard for the corporation, and they ignore and get ignored by the 'I only work here' losers (ribbonfarms word), who just want their paycheck and go home and do their hobbies. This but a 7 post blog post (or ebook) is basically the shorthand which is referred to here. Me saying 'the map isn't the territory' is referring to lesson 1 of the Rationalist Bible (my word and description, rationalism doesn't speak in lessons (I wonder if that is because well, a lesson is sort of a map)), the sequences, collected in a book called ['Rationality: From AI to Zombies'](https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/sequences). And it basically refers to: (from lesswrong) 'Models of reality are often mistaken for reality itself'. But once again, repeated over a shitton of blogposts. In Ziz mana post, ziz also talks about 'gears' which is a [Scott alexander concept.](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/03/17/what-universal-human-experiences-are-you-missing-without-realizing-it/) basically you dont know which things you don't know in regards to abilities and human experiences. Not clear what Ziz means with gears in the context of mana however. Anyway, I still have not finished the blog post, so I have not arrived at the actual infohazard part yet. (My guess was that it was the 2 mind mind split thing, which is also odd in a way, not sure if this 2 hemispheres science even replicates, but it also seems like a good way to talk yourself into having ... euh forgot the proper term, so going with the non PC one, split personality syndrome (E: [DID](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2719457/) that is the correct term)). E: I keep coming across terms which you might not know or now, and it is indeed maddening to read if you are not into this, or have not read up on this. Might want to read slatestarscodex post on object and meta level things if you really want to get into the Rationalist brainworms. (And do mind, Rationalist in general believe meta level things are better, or at least, they love going up an abstraction level removing all context (Which of course makes them highly at risk for joining the covid denial team (not as deniers, but as 'well requiring vaccinations is just as bad as nazi germany excluding jews' people))
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u/ImperialFister04 2 points at 1634911401.000000
Ah that makes sense, thanks for the insight. The Gervais thing makes a good lick of sense(in a very limited respect), all I can say is that most rationalist stuff I would categorize as crazy, but in a way that makes you laugh. As for the infohazard, I read somewhere that it completely depends on if you believe that the 2 mind split is plausible, other than in people who've had a corpus colosotom. I also read somewhere that ziz may be predicating her whole theory of mind on some pretty contentious ideas, like the bichameral mind theory. Needless to say, I don't buy it for a second; and the fact that some do alarms me. Ultimately, like you say, it just seems like a way to talk yourself into having DID (dissociative identity disorder I think is the PC term), for me it seems like a means to better set up would be accolites for suggestion, especially considering the UHS thing.
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u/Soyweiser 3 points at 1634913567.000000
Yeah, it is all a bit alarming, because in a way mind control powers are real. You shared the word DID with me, and now it magically appears in my mind because you typed it. I assume you are aware of the motte/bailey fallacy and can see how this is bullshit, because that isn't what we mean when we talk about mind control, and by using these terms, we are actually devaluing the term mind control. (Having friends is being mind controlled for example, if you read between the lines, which is pretty scary as a concept to tell to people). But if you are a ['the greater good'](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYTeTK57sCQ) person, it can become easy to manipulate people into things. Like manipulating yourself into believing you have mind control powers, so you can convince others, and setting them all up for easier manipulation. The Great Leader is never wrong after all. Anyway another thing I wanted to say about a lot of rationalist terms is that they often mean pretty common things, but they are used as [Shibboleths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth), their whole way of writing is one big shibboleth for example. (There is also so much programmer and gamer jargon in Zizs post, much more than usual ([Saying SYN ACK](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handshaking#TCP_three-way_handshake) to each other is a thing is just a nerdy thing for example) > If such a group existed, I’d happily browse it at least once. If that formed the substrate for The Good Group, I’d be happy to devote way more attention. I could introduce you to Gwen, but my cached thought is as far as group-building I don’t want to waste bits of selection ability on anything but alignment and ability. If that serves as an arbitrary excuse to band together and act like the Schelling mind among us puts extra confidence/care/hope in the cooperation of the group, fine if it works, until it has worked, I think I can do better as far as group-building fundamentals. > I’ve been meaning to ask, btw, who have you recruited for your plan so far, and what are they like? This is basically saying: 'well, im fine with such a group existing, I just don't think my gender identity is that important, I think my own personal goals are more important, and I will only participate in your group if I can use y'all to further my goals without putting too much energy in your group myself. Also gender identity isn't a good way to build a productive group'. (As far as Gervais-sociopathy goes, this is pretty silly, you obv shouldn't verbalize this, love that the last line just reads like a total normal thing, not sure what that implies). Anyway, back on topic (as I finished it), I don't see what the whole infohazard warning was about, as there was nothing really said in the blog post apart from describing zizs interactions, I guess it is the hemisphere thing. Which isn't an infohazard to me, I mean I have thought about the idea before, but I consider it more a high on weed thought than something you should actually be worried about. But overreacting to perceived infohazards is also a very cult leader thing to do. Esp as the most important warning seems to be missing here, both saying 'if you feel like you are developing this, go see a psych' and 'the research on this being a real physical thing (vs a real mental thing, as obv it exists) is inconclusive'. Re: overreacting to perceived infohazards: this was Yuds reaction to Rokos basilisk: > Listen to me very closely, you idiot. > YOU DO NOT THINK IN SUFFICIENT DETAIL ABOUT SUPERINTELLIGENCES CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO BLACKMAIL YOU. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE THING WHICH GIVES THEM A MOTIVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE BLACKMAIL. > You have to be really clever to come up with a genuinely dangerous thought. I am disheartened that people can be clever enough to do that and not clever enough to do the obvious thing and KEEP THEIR IDIOT MOUTHS SHUT about it, because it is much more important to sound intelligent when talking to your friends. > This post was STUPID. Which is pretty normal. If you believe in all the science fiction bullshit. (I'm sorry acausalrobotgod, guess having my inperfect mind copies tortured forever is my fetish). Sorry for this rambling post btw, I'm also talking to a friend of mine about this, he has more exp with DID, and he mentioned, what they are doing here in a way is creating [Tulpas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa). Which makes it even funnier, as this is another way Rationalists are reinventing religious concepts.
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u/ImperialFister04 2 points at 1634914731.000000
Yeah, I was thinking that mind control powers' really means 'im very good at getting people to see things my way', I'm not sure what you mean by having freinds is being mind controlled? Or are you talking within ziz's own framework? Sorry I'm asking a lot of questions but, why shouldn't I verbalize about Gervais sociopathy? Is something so bad that talking about it is wrong? I have no idea what the motte/bailey fallacy is, but I'll look into it, and yeah, I definitely thought that an 'infohazard' is a very rationalist thing to worry about. As for tulpas, yeah I thought that might be part of the whole thing as well.
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u/Soyweiser 2 points at 1634915661.000000
I meant things from Zizs perspective. Like seeing friends/family as mindcontrollers (and thus breaking up with your family) as she did. And I meant the sociopathy from her perspective as well. As saying 'im going to manipulate you' doesn't really work well. For some reason people don't like that. The [mottebailey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_fallacy) is also on wikipedia. The community around Scott Alexander, aka slatestarcodex, loved that, and that is also what named the r/themotte subreddit. Science fiction nerds also love talking about infohazards, it has a nice overlap between certain science fiction horrors and general lovecraftian horror. [The short story BLIT](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLIT_(short_story\)) is a nice story about the concept of infohazards/basilisks. And one of the earlier ones which really spell it out. ([Snow crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash), suggested reading if you want to understand wtf tech people are trying to do (and failing) also toys with similar concepts). Both these stories at least have the bonus of being fiction, and actually fun, and shorter than the Rational stuff ;). And to link it all back, Snow Crash was actually inspired by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Origin_of_Consciousness_in_the_Breakdown_of_the_Bicameral_Mind
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u/ImperialFister04 3 points at 1634916030.000000
Ah alright, that makes sooooooo much more sense, thank you for educating me on these topics, I think I'm gonna be dunking on rationalists for a long time! I had a quick read up about the motte bailey fallacy and it definitely seems like something someone looking to manipulate would use. In terms of infohazards, I think SCP is one of the most of intersting places the concept has been implemented, but those readings seem very interesting.
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u/Soyweiser 2 points at 1634916541.000000
Mottebailey is a pretty common normal fallacy tbh. People accidentally use it all the time, and there is something to be said for it also being part of normal conversations where when you actually think about it you let go of the bailey. Of course the fallacy pops up when you take back the bailey. And well dont just take my word for all of this, im also one person with my own ideas and thoughts, and I dont even live near the bay area. So im not connected to all of this physically. (And every now and then we also sneer at the wrong people, or for the wrong reasons. I also try to keep my sneering here and dont go bothering the Rationalists and their foul spawn in their places) Ow yeah scp is also fun. I should have mentioned that they use it a lot.
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u/ImperialFister04 3 points at 1634929127.000000
That's pretty interesting, although it may be common, I think motte bailey can be intentionally used to subvert people. Don't worry about me just taking your word for things, I value balanced discussion and after looking at some of the stuff that rationalists (and rationalists pretending to not be rationalists) put out, most of it seems pretty looney; to put it politely. So if I disagreed on a topic, I would certainly say so. But in this case especially I think the sneer is valid.
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u/WikiSummarizerBot 1 points at 1634913586.000000
**[Shibboleth](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth)** >A shibboleth ( (listen)) is any custom or tradition, usually a choice of phrasing or even a single word, that distinguishes one group of people from another. Shibboleths have been used throughout history in many societies as passwords, simple ways of self-identification, signaling loyalty and affinity, maintaining traditional segregation, or protecting from real or perceived threats. **[Tulpa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa)** >Tulpa is a concept in Theosophy, mysticism, and the paranormal of a being or object which is created through spiritual or mental powers. Modern practitioners use the term to refer to a type of willed imagined being which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively independent. Tulpas have thoughts, emotions, and personality separate from their host. People who have one or more tulpas are tulpamancers. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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u/threefriend 2 points at 1635498969.000000
There's one thing I think you and /u/soyweiser are missing about the Paseks Doom infohazard. It doesn't just require believing Ziz('s partner Gwen)'s 2-mind theory; you also need to believe in Ziz's Evil vs. Good morality. The idea is that there's only a 1 in 12 chance of either of your hemispheres being "Good", meaning only a 1/144 chance of *both* being Good. If you're Good as Ziz defines it, then it's going to really fuck with you that your headmate is Evil. To Ziz, Evil's terminal value is to rape, murder, and destroy. Good's is to extinguish all Evil. To be "single good" is to be permanently crippled and ultimately incapable of benefitting the world. Ziz does not believe one can change their alignment. Another side of the coin is that Ziz thinks most trans men and women are actually bigender, meaning we have one male hemisphere and one female. A binary trans person "finding out" that half their brain is their birth gender can be pretty traumatizing and dysphoric. The idea is that one hemisphere wants to completely transition, and the other remain its AGAB. And like Good v. Evil there can never be an ultimate resolution, just "treaties."
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u/Soyweiser 2 points at 1635502730.000000
You are right I had totally missed thar and the implications of it.
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u/threefriend 2 points at 1635527900.000000
Yup! No worries, I've read almost every word on that website cause some of the out-there ideas overlap with things I had independently come to believe. I'd like to create a piece of science fiction, some day, that explores the implications of these things being true in the way I perceive them. Ziz would make a great villain, lol.
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u/threefriend 1 points at 1635528263.000000
Oh, and *of course* Ziz is the Double Good Double Female ubermensch of altruistic trans girls. Don't you wish you could be like her, you evil not-even-fully a girl? This is what's made two of her orbiters kill themselves so far - Pasek and Fluttershy (who she's now calling Edo, and is going to be writing about in her upcoming Multiverse post).
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u/ImperialFister04 1 points at 1635537066.000000
Yeah, thanks for the clear up. It seems like the entire thing is pretty wacky in and of itself, but I guess we can be lucky we don't believe in those things.
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u/threefriend 1 points at 1635644006.000000
>but I guess we can be lucky we don't believe in those things. Well, yeah, it takes a very special kinda crazy to hop aboard the Ziz train. She actually has an accurate view of how rare "double-good" people are, cause she's defining it as being someone exactly like her. EDIT: and/or it requires being in her presence. I'm sure she has plenty of that cult leader charisma, what she calls "mana". Even then you'd need to be vulnerable to it, tho.
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u/Soyweiser 1 points at 1634910965.000000
There is also this: https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/qcy4fz/dont_know_if_this_fits_here_but_i_have_to_ask_who/hhmblwi/
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u/ImperialFister04 9 points at 1634883006.000000
Oh yeah definitely, but in this case it seems like it's used to peddle that 'hemisphere theory' that ziz believes in. Basically she tells us that this information will not effect most people, but of course that's only because we 'don't get it'.
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u/Subrosian_Smithy 4 points at 1634852265.000000
based
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u/wholetyouinhere 9 points at 1634925695.000000

I think I’m going to skip this one. I don’t want to know. Just reading one sentence synopses of this situation is exhausting.

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u/DELETED 8 points at 1634861050.000000

I believe an actual New Gnostic Church would be better than this

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u/DELETED 11 points at 1634845439.000000

She is my mom and she makes good ravioli

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u/wholetyouinhere 3 points at 1634925609.000000
oh marone
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u/DELETED 2 points at 1634918138.000000

https://www.patreon.com/posts/update-woods-by-31669571

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u/megatr -10 points at 1634847175.000000

She has a blog and chats in some discord servers. Lots of people have a big respect for her ideas. More people regard it as cultish nonsense. Ziz opposes rationalists a lot and I’d like to think it would be celebrated here on sneerclub. Especially the opposition to miri and cfar.

I like Ziz’s ideas that I would characterize as “taking responsibility and developing a plan to improve the world for everybody, and not being selfish”. I like the gender theories. I like the hemisphere theories. I dislike the other half that focuses on AI risk.

Ziz herself claims to be Double good which makes sense if you are deep in her writings. but it’s too impossible for me to believe. I’m pretty certain a couple people have died over the years. I think she has no sense of “duty of care”. Though I’ve never personally spoken with her.

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u/dizekat 22 points at 1634848312.000000
> Ziz opposes rationalists a lot and I'd like to think it would be celebrated here on sneerclub. Especially the opposition to miri and cfar. I feel it's a bit like saying that atheists would celebrate this David Koresh character. Like, why? She's a hardcore believer in crazy shit associated with rationalism. It's not like we care about Yudkowsky personally, he may be a grifter and a fraud and a pompous case of Dunning Kruger, but you can do a lot worse than him.
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u/megatr 4 points at 1634849953.000000
for what its worth, when i think crazy rationalism i generally think of abuser brent dill and not harmless-by-comparison yudkowsky
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u/dizekat 17 points at 1634850603.000000
Well, as far as we know anyway; the latter is a cult leader and has people who are very dedicated to covering up for him to Save The World From Apocalypse, so it is a bit of an unfair comparison (with regards to getting caught). For all you know he could end up in prison for the rest of his days like Keith Raniere (another rationality-themed cult leader). Or not. I meant more in the sense that he's not a true believer (in anything other than his own awesomeness), and true believers are much worse. Yudkowsky isn't going to go full Bin Laden on anything. A true believer might.
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u/Soyweiser 9 points at 1634913786.000000
> harmless-by-comparison yudkowsky Guess you are not a consequentialist then.
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u/ImperialFister04 7 points at 1634847601.000000
I can definitely understand liking the stuff around building a better world and dunking on rationalists. Admittedly I don't know much about her writings, but I can't help but really think that the hemisphere theories and unihemispheric sleep are a little bit out there. I would like to learn more, what's all this jargon around 'double good' and 'clones' and stuff? And what's up with claiming the case of Maia Pasek as an 'infohazard'?
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1636228684.000000
[deleted]
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u/ImperialFister04 1 points at 1636271069.000000
Ah, thanks for that, really comprehensive stuff. Thanks for taking one for the team. Needless to say, just looking through what her theories say gives me the distinct impression that they are pretty wacko, the core thing seems to be built on the theory of bichimeral minds, which is controversial at best. And just being on this sub seems to preclude anyone from believing super intelligent AI is an inevitability.
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