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Scott has a long post defining and defending a particular version of “rationality”, focusing on Steven Pinker’s recent book and a review of it by Howard Gardner. There’s a lot to unpack there, but this paragraph jumped out at me:

https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/what-are-we-arguing-about-when-we?s=r

If the “rules of rationality” say you need to do something that makes you lose money for no reason, they weren’t the real rules. The real rules are the ones that leave you rich and happy and successful and make the world a better place.

Note the blithe equation of rationality with making money. This is really the core of the shitty politics of the Rationalist sphere. You can tell how rational someone is by how much money they have. This is why they hate the left with such a passion, because it’s pretty definitional for the left to not believe that, to instead hold that the distribution of wealth and power is not particularly rational and society needs to change to make it more equitable.

Not these guys though. To them, money is a sign of rationalist grace, and if you are poor it’s probably because you are also stupid. There is no tension between the goals of making money and improving the world, and thus the rich guys like Thiel and Musk are also our saviors.

Rationalism involves packaging up this rather boring and reactionary attitude in such a way that it appears like a sexy new insight.

One of the most common arguments against rationality is “something something white males”. I have never been able to entirely make sense of it, but I imagine if you gave the people who say it 50 extra IQ points, they might rephrase it to something like “because white males have a lot of power, it’s easy for them to put their finger on the scales when people are trying to do complicated explicit computations; we would probably do a better job building a just world if policy-makers retreated to a heuristic of ‘choose whichever policy favors black women the most.’”

Groan.

Scooter's going mask-off these days, huh?
Maybe the original NYT article wasn't that far off, and that is why he freaked out so much?
Perhaps he feels empowered because the negative reaction to the email leaks was at the messenger and not at him. 'No more need for the kolmogorov option, it is time for phase 3 of [the Protracted War](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_09.htm)'
Is the original version out there in any form, or is it locked up with Godfather III: Good Version?
Maybe if you give him 50 more IQ points he'll have an epiphany; up through [....scales] he sounded like he was almost on the verge of one.
>we would probably do a better job building a just world if policy-makers retreated to a heuristic of ‘choose whichever policy favors black women the most.’” his use of "retreated" here is baffling. is he implying that governments used to favour black women? is he implying that the people he's arguing against believe that?

Latter-Day Calvinism. If “rationalists” knew any history or sociology they might be dangerous

"Is this just repackaged prosperity gospel?" "Always has been"
The calvinists were even worse: "even though I've betrayed everyone I've ever known, the fact that I'm successful means that God has selected me for heaven" Really stupid, self-serving theology
Gotta love that pre-suppositional garbage. I am right and cannot be wrong, and since I cannot be wrong and I am always right, therefore I am right.
I have issues with the counter-reformation, but modern multiple-universe theory says that God knows EVERYTHING. Like EEVVEERRYYTTHHIINNGG
I'm suddenly thinking of [The Duck and Roger the Horse](https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x36d6tz).
I'd be concerned if they weren't all profoundly anti-social weirdos. I mean, I'm an anti-social weirdo, and even I can't buy this bullshit.
We're anti-social weirdos who AREN'T sociopaths
Hey, speak for yourself.

“Diogenes, you wouldn’t have to live on lentils if you learned to flatter Thiel.”

Diogenes beating Thiel to a pulp with his staff: "I called for men, not scoundrels."
And you’d eat like a king if instead of flattering, you switched to flattening.

One of the most common arguments against rationality is “something something white males”. I have never been able to entirely make sense of it, but I imagine if you gave the people who say it 50 extra IQ points,

“if you can’t make sense of something, it must be the other person who needs the IQ points.” Incredible. A man with a neutron star for a brain

\*Big bald head sweating profusely in front of two buttons\* "The woke have successfuly taken control of every level of government, private sector and cultural production. Anybody defying them is in mortal peril. I am so brave to stand up to them" "The woke need 50 more IQ point just to make sense in only way acceptable to True Rationality, which btw also involves success and profit"
[[taps the Umberto Eco point number 8 sign](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)]
How to call a person the r-slur without actually using the r-slur. This also fails the {true, necessary, kind} test.

Is Scott now just stealing sneerclub content? Didn’t we talk about this tweet before. (E: talking about the actual article here btw)

Of course our content was wittier. (and we can grok the difference between rationality and LW Rationality).

E: his reference to posting predictions is funny, according to some people of r/ssc who did the math, he is getting worse over time, and he is nearing the 50% mark on his predictions.

> according to some people of r/ssc who did the math, he is getting worse over time That thread is pretty funny. "Events are super complicated so it's impossible to say why his predictions weren't particularly accurate"? Maybe the first half of the sentence answers the second half.
Yeah the whole betting thing never even gets to the point of 'being right but for the wrong reasons', a perhaps pedantic thing but which probably is a bit more important than just predicting the right outcome. Do think it is funny they act like oredicting things in this way is a skill. Time to spend 10k hours predicting.
[previous thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/q9pjmv/got_em/)
Thanks!

When LW just became a thing, some commenters criticized the Rationalist project as contradictory/hypocritical: “if you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich”. If, by definition, instrumental rationality is about achieving goals in most efficient way possible, why can’t you efficiently and rationally make tons of money, when money is a problem? See, for example, Rationality is Systematized Winning.

What Scott is doing is lampshading this criticism, noticing the skulls, if you will. This of course isn’t a rebuttal to criticism, so they way Yudkowsky weasels out of it is usually through “every second I spend getting a Ph.D., making tons of money to not rely on donations, fixing PR problems is a second I could be spending on solving the friendly AI problem”. Of course how watching anime all day long, ruining orgasms, and writing horny fiction helps with friendly AI is a mystery.

I like the 'we noticed the skulls' thing btw, it is a pretty smart post, because it can do 2 things. Either it can be used as a 'your comments are outdated and we in the field/in the know, are actually already taking them into account and working on them' or a 'your comments are old we are aware of your concerns'. And due to steelmanning, people will accept the latter as the first. Great piece of dark arts (not that he used the term 'we noticed the skulls' here, but due to steelmanning he doesn't even have to, it is part of the Rationalist lexicon. Creating a nice sort of basis for 'Rationalism can't fail, it can only be failed').
to be fair, getting donations is something Yudkowsky has proven really quite good at - first Thiel bux, then cryptonerd magic beans.

I struggle to understand how they don’t realise that for the vast, vast majority of the world that means the “rational” answer is “Murder all the rich people and redistribute their stuff.”

Man, this guy would fuckin’ hate Aristotle.

[deleted]
Diogenes would acknowledge this was indeed a plucked chicken

subservience to the status quo. the path of least resistance. this is what rationality means to these people.

theyve pioneered an entire intellectual philosophy predicated upon taking dominant power structures at face value.

Oh shit we doing Prosperity Gospel now boys, buckle in.

I’ll just say I agree with about a third of your point but somehow you’ve managed to take the one sensible kernel of an idea in an otherwise intensely sneerable post and fuck up the landing

Yeah, they worship cash in the worst possible way but not only is that an absurdly literal reading of your specific quote, he’s not doing the Greed Is Good thing here more generally at all

There are so many laughable bits of that review: why pick this one?

Well I ignored the more obvious bits, because they are obvious. I should explain that I'm not accusing him of being greedy or advocating greed. The focus on money is not really about that at the root, it's about a mania for legible performance indicators. How can you tell who is winning the game of life without some kind of score? These guys love metrics, and money is superficially a great metric, if you ignore basically all of economic history, social stratification, and the way rich people actually get rich. I think this is one of the core falsehoods that underlie rationalism and I'm always alert for a chance to attack it, even if there are riper targets.

This last decade has been good for intuition, because we’ve finally been able to teach it to computers. There are now AIs that can tell dogs from cats, previously an impossible task for a machine. There are style transfer AIs that can make a painting feel more like a Van Gogh, or “more cheerful”, or various other intuitive things. Even text generation programs like the GPTs are conquering intuition - Strunk & White aside, there’s no ruleset for how to write, just better or worse judgment on what word should come next. Since these AIs are just giant matrix multiplication machines, “intuition” now has a firm grounding in math - just much bigger, more complicated math than the usual kind that we call “logical”.

Ex-cuuuuse me? Lmao current AIs are about as good at being intuitive as rationalists are at reading comprehension.

Lame midwit neckbeards fiddling with elementary logic and economics, these guys suck so much

number go up

If the rule you followed brought you to this, of what use is the rule? - Anton Chigurh, Rationalist

It’s the unit of caring!

Doesn’t he argue that this isn’t what rationality is actually about in like the very next paragraph? Seems sarcastic

“This has the happy side effect that it’s impossible to be against rationality. But it also has the more concerning implication that it’s vacuous to be in favor of it. If rationalists were people who really liked explicit chains of computation, we could print out cool “TEAM EXPLICIT CHAIN OF COMPUTATION” t-shirts and play nasty pranks on the people who like heuristics and intuition. But if it’s just about preferring good things to bad things, it doesn’t really seem like a method, or a community, or an ideology, or even necessarily worth writing books about.”