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[NSFW] Like a car crash you can't look away from, I went to the post-Reddit site for theMotte, and this was one of the first posts I found (nsfw for words you probably don't want to read) (https://i.imgur.com/gorym2G.jpg)
posted on October 02, 2022 05:03 AM by u/cutty2k
68
u/Slavaa 54 points at 1664737658.000000

Obviously don’t plan on using them

[clicks stopwatch] negative 2 seconds, that’s a new record.

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u/cutty2k 20 points at 1664742142.000000
Right?? How much self awareness do you have to lack to try and score some virtue points by declaring you aren't going to use a litany of slurs *right after* rattling them all off?
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u/DELETED 2 points at 1664742808.000000
[deleted]
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u/cutty2k 18 points at 1664743705.000000
Why would you need to use the words, even when talking about them, outside of very hyper specific discussions by linguists? The poster said other platforms *don't even* support the distinction, and now they feel like they're "out of jail" and hopes others can "speak freely" now. What kind of conversations do you think are going on over at TheMotte that these words just *desperately* need to be used?
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1664744737.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 14 points at 1664798924.000000
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1664817302.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 3 points at 1664817915.000000
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1664818614.000000
[deleted]
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u/Soyweiser 2 points at 1664825403.000000
I'm not a mod, so people being banned isn't my choice. Guess you have been. I'll not continue then (not that I really wanted to continue anyway, hope you didn't either).
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u/flodereisen 1 points at 1664825868.000000
> Guess you have been. No, I did what I described in the post.
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u/Soyweiser 1 points at 1664841043.000000
Nah, my bad, I misread a different post of yours where you complained that somebody had blocked you and was replying from behind a block.
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u/DELETED 19 points at 1664745885.000000
[deleted]
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u/flodereisen 0 points at 1664746146.000000
"Devil's advocate" is a rhetorical device.
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u/therivercass 4 points at 1665045698.000000
mate, several of the words on that list are *fighting* words. I know "triggering" has been deflated to mean "somewhat uncomfortable" but the incidence of hate crimes - reported or otherwise - means some percentage of the people you use those words with aren't going to react by *merely* having a panic attack. if you don't know your company *extremely* well, someone could hear you, decide you mean them imminent harm, and explode. that people will make old terms into new slurs through the ever-evolving process we call language is so far besides the point that I'm not sure you even understand the basic breadth of the problem. if I'm in the room with someone who drops any of a number of these slurs, they're asking me to make a very fast determination of whether or not I *absolutely* trust them with my life. the adrenaline will hit my system for its precisely intended purpose. whether I respond to it by literally or rhetorically fighting, whether I flee the situation or freeze, I'm going to make the choices that unconditionally give me the best odds of restoring my sense of security, of ensuring my safety, as I'm able to see them - these words drag me involuntarily past my limits and I cannot unilaterally impose them. without that trust, the person dropping these fighting words is not going to get any consideration - without it, they're telling me that I am unsafe in their presence in crystal clear language and leaving me with a snap judgment that carries life-altering consequences on how best to respond. this shit is roulette. I don't know if you really don't know that, if this is genuinely new to you, or if rather the rationalist routine is about *rationalizing*, about self-justifying the violence you're baiting, for which you want the excuse. I don't know, I don't care - I'm not responding to replies to this post.
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u/flodereisen 1 points at 1665065050.000000
I'm not sure what you think I have said or done. I have never used any of these, associated with anyone who uses these words or condoned using them. I am not baiting anything. Same with all these replies, projecting something onto me I am not and have not done.
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u/sexylaboratories 2 points at 1665089405.000000
So, to be clear, you've received a lot of uniform and consistent feedback from people who understand your position and that you were playing devil's advocate, and your conclusion is: "Everyone else is wrong and mistaken. I have nothing to learn from this."?
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u/flodereisen 1 points at 1665092903.000000
To be clear, I have received a lot of vitriol from people commenting here who fundamentally misunderstood what I even posted, due to the very nice blurriness of communication intent over text. (If you claim to understand what I wrote, please elaborate - no one here in the public comments has even explained what was so reproachful about what I wrote, but everyone was very eager to say that *it was*, never mind what it even was...) But I *did* have very kind, extremely long and helpful exchanges over PMs from people I have interacted with in these comments, who actually did understand what I wrote, and who actually took the time to enlighten their understandings of these people who overreact here and even threatened to kill me. So yes, there has been very kind and helpful feedback - *from some of the same people that did call me names right here* - but not out here in the public comments, barring the indirect death threats. So, no, to be clear, you are not right in your assessment of what I conclude from this, and I do not get what you get from joining into the dogpile. It must feel very good to feel so sure about pointing the finger. Many here have claimed to understand "devil's advocate" as a rhetorical device without being able to show that they do not literally see the devil in some random internet shitpost.
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u/kppeterc15 -4 points at 1664746365.000000
well you need to use it when you're discussing a case of everyone overreacting about someone else using it
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u/cutty2k 12 points at 1664772174.000000
Why? In the case of the n-word....you know what it means. You know what n-word means. What benefit is gained in a conversation by writing it out? What clarity is had by doing so that is lacking in the term "n-word" on its own? With the exception of a PoC directly describing their lived experience, there are no contexts where elaborating the full word is necessary or beneficial.
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u/kppeterc15 1 points at 1664802575.000000
I was joking
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u/FaibleEstimeDeSoi 0 points at 1666563023.000000
I know that this 3 weeks old discussion and I probably won\`t gain an answer but I will still ask. Do you really don\`t understand that person in the screenshot believes that these words shouldn\`t be censured and if he self-censure he would contradict himself?
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u/cutty2k 2 points at 1666566589.000000
What about my post or replies leads you to believe I don't understand that this person doesn't think those words should be censored? It's very obvious that this person doesn't believe these words should be censored. That's kind of *the issue*. The irony is that he claims he "doesn't plan on using these words" right after using all of the words. He's falling over himself to pre-justify their use for some theoretical future good faith discussion, as if anything close to that is going to happen on theMotte. If you've spent more than 5 seconds on the motte, you know full well the context you'd see those words used.
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u/FaibleEstimeDeSoi 1 points at 1666648582.000000
kpeter wrote "well you need to use it when you're discussing a case of everyone overreacting about someone else using it" And you asked "why?". I just don\`t see any irony here. Of course you can think that he is either wrong or deceiving or even self-deceiving but this "he "doesn't plan on using these words" right after using all of the words" isn\`t a contradiction in any of these possibilities. And I don\`t think your last sentence is true(and it\`s very easy to check). Motte racists and bigots are not of the kind that would use slurs very often. Like that doesn\`t make them any better but that it still is the case.
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u/cutty2k 3 points at 1666676828.000000
>“well you need to use it when you’re discussing a case of everyone overreacting about someone else using it” >And you asked “why?”. And that question remains valid. I cannot think of a single reason where writing out anything other than "n-word" brings anything additional to a conversation. Everyone knows what it means. >I just don't see any irony here. Of course you can think that he is either wrong or deceiving or even self-deceiving but this “he “doesn’t plan on using these words” right after using all of the words” isn`t a contradiction in any of these possibilities. Of course it is. It would be like punching someone in the face right before declaring you don't plan on punching anyone in the face. >And I don't think your last sentence is true(and it`s very easy to check). It is very easy to check. Go ahead and go over to themotte.org and run some searches. The very same poster in my OP screenshot goes ahead and uses the full litany once again, he's absolutely jubilant about his newfound freedom and just can't get enough of flexing it. >Motte racists and bigots are not of the kind that would use slurs very often. Like that doesn`t make them any better but that it still is the case. The general consensus around the "n-word" discussion at themotte is a bunch of grandstanding about the fight against *magic words* and their *magic power* they find so silly, all the while completely blind to the fact that the argument against using the n-word has *nothing* to do with magic and *everything* to do with that word *hurting people in real actual life who see it and hear it*. It costs you *nothing* to not say it. And the cost of using it is not only *hurting people needlessly*, but also pushing out a *huge* swath of people who you ostensibly want to bring into the rationalist tent who refuse to engage on a platform that allows such speech. At least one motte poster had the self awareness to recognize what will become of their platform. The free use of the n-word and other words like it will attract two kinds of people, those that want to die on the hill of free expression over *these specific words*, and people who just like to use them to hurt others. What a great community. Pedants and racists and bigots. Definitely keep defending them.
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u/Soyweiser 8 points at 1664799117.000000
Nah you dont need to know how hacks in video games work in detail to ban hackers. And the first thing hackers will do after being banned is claim what they did wasn't that bad. (See all the shitheads shouting about the nword being used in rap, and how they are just singing along to a song (a bad faith argument understood by 12 year olds to be bad faith)). Dont be played son. For another example see how kotakuinaction claims (and has always claimed) that by just posting there you get banned from other subreddits, like they are just neutrally talking about things. (It is a trick to make people go 'achtually, the sjws are the real fascists' (like fascism is just a tactic people use, and not an ideology)). (E: Unrelated: for a fun game, go to kotakuinaction, click a random username, sort by controversial. I tried it, and every one I tried had sexist/racist/homophobic posts in nonkotakuinaction subreddits. Gosh wonder why yall get banned from sexual assault survivor and poc subreddits).
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u/MagnetFist 1 points at 1667158856.000000
That's one of the best points against using slurs I've ever seen. One must just use *Black*, *Gay*, *Queer*, *Trans*, *Muslim*, and other words and it's fine!
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u/ForgettableWorse 10 points at 1664756368.000000
Maybe it would be an important distinction (if we were ignoring all context and pretending we don't know this is a bigot expressing joy at being able to say explicitly bigoted shit without any consequences)... _if_ they didn't use the triple parentheses as their fucking flair.
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u/reddithateswomen420 10 points at 1664743687.000000
only if you've never heard of or read the_motte before.
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u/flodereisen 3 points at 1664744038.000000
I only strayed there once; it was "/pol/ for "smart" "rationalists"".
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u/reddithateswomen420 7 points at 1664747153.000000
yea. thats why
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u/DELETED 13 points at 1664744496.000000
[deleted]
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u/flodereisen 5 points at 1664745004.000000
> y'all who come here trying to deflect the sneers I have been here long before, I am not trying to deflect shit, I am not interested in the themotte hellhole, I was just pointing out technicalities, see my other replies. Being uptight about technicalities is a pretty important trait for effective sneering.
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u/DELETED 7 points at 1664745794.000000
[deleted]
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1664746094.000000
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u/DELETED 5 points at 1664747120.000000
[deleted]
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u/flodereisen 1 points at 1664747337.000000
**EDIT: Posting an answer and then blocking me so I cannot reply - very adult.** > You think that was inflammatory and ad hominem? Yes, it explicitely was, as this post is: > You think it was hard to understand even though I explicitly mentioned it being a common rhetorical tactic? ? No, I never said anything like that. > lmao eat my ass, idiot Ah, yes, it seems you have won the argument by insulting me and then blocking me.
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u/IHateReddit_9001 42 points at 1664692947.000000

(((reddit)))

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u/SaiyanPrinceAbubu 36 points at 1664696706.000000

Unironic gamer moment

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u/MagnesiumOvercast 73 points at 1664698423.000000

How many websites are there now where the pitch is “Like X popular site, but more racist” Gab, Voat, Truth Social, there must be dozens now, but they keep making more, all of these sites suck so much that even the racists typically flock back to the big ones and live with the bans.

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u/blolfighter 37 points at 1664703079.000000
I don't remember who said it, but it went a little something like this: "If you start a website that promises to be "like X but no witch hunts," you're going to end up with something that is like X but full of witches."
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u/Soyweiser 29 points at 1664704176.000000
That was said by a crypto (as in secret, not cryptography or cryptocurrencies) neoreactionairy witch himself.
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u/cutty2k 55 points at 1664698726.000000
Right? It's it funny how with these sites "freedom of speech" *always* means "freedom to drop n-bombs, transphobic/homophobic slurs, and rant about (((bankers)))". For all the hand wringing theMotte did about the move *not being* about racist slurs, they sure went mask off *the second* they closed the door to their room and thought nobody else was listening.
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u/supercalifragilism 31 points at 1664715690.000000
Imagine saying free speech is a fundamental necessity for an enlightened society, a core tenet of the Western world and then just immediately listing off words you know hurt people without context or purpose.
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u/AprilSpektra 20 points at 1664720763.000000
It's not like they ever actually mean that. What they actually mean is that they feel like their speech should never face any pushback or consequences.
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u/Soyweiser 19 points at 1664704144.000000
Voat is already dead.
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u/DELETED 1 points at 1665449960.000000
dotwin is best anyway
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u/DELETED 20 points at 1664721470.000000

[deleted]

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u/Soyweiser 11 points at 1664724441.000000
The whole moderation thing of themotte (which started this exodus) was reddit admins modding a german user saying some vague shit about nazis. So could have just been a bot protecting reddit from german lawsuits. (this is my headcanon, because creating a splitoff over that would be pretty funny).
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u/Sagely_Hijinks 3 points at 1665060655.000000
Based and WormMemes-pilled
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u/hashtagsugary 36 points at 1664698531.000000

I didn’t want to read that, but I needed to.

There truly are culturally stunted brains out there, and it horrifies me - but I also need to be kept refreshed on these men because I’m sure I deal with them every single day.

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u/cutty2k 21 points at 1664698822.000000
Absolutely. Send them off to their own little corner, but pay attention to what's going on over there.
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u/hashtagsugary 17 points at 1664698963.000000
100% - they live and breathe in functioning societies and communities but they’re not wanted. They’re easy to spot when you look, but so many people make an assumption that this kind of vitriol has disappeared. It hasn’t, it’s still thriving and that is terrifying.
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u/notaninterestinguser 16 points at 1664752998.000000

So the initial purpose of that sub was to “strengthen” arguments for racism and shit right?

I remember arguing with some loon on here years ago and all his post history was on that sub, but I couldn’t figure out their whole deal due to all the in-group lingo and acronyms they would hide everything behind.

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u/Soyweiser 5 points at 1665131456.000000
Well the ingroup shit is due to this being an offshoot from the Lesswrong Rationalism offshoot slatestarcodex. Effective Altruism (a longtermist variant, which is an ideology which has been in the news a lot recently ([xriskology](https://mobile.twitter.com/xriskology) is a twitter account to pay attention to if you want to know more about those bad people)). Turns out you can hide a lot of horrible ideas behind ingroup lingo and ingroup norms (calling for the execution of people who cheat is not just fine, but a quality contribution, if you just use enough neutral sounding words to talk about it. It is all just neutral debate see, and the horrible lefties are too weak and soy to participate /s).
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u/Soyweiser 8 points at 1664704130.000000

So there are several people saying exactly this. I already found a post like this earlier.

E: nevermind prob the same post.

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u/flodereisen 8 points at 1664745215.000000
This post/screenshot is seemingly already a month old.
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u/cutty2k 2 points at 1664772500.000000
Yep, I took this screen cap maybe 2 or 3 days after they set up the site. I think this was one of maybe the first actual posts on their forum, and I didn't get around to posting here until now. I can only imagine how it's devolved since then, if this was the baseline.
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u/Soyweiser 1 points at 1664792724.000000
Right prob the same post then. Corrected, thanks.
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u/Soyweiser 4 points at 1664925018.000000

Ow btw, for who is wondering yes, ScottA still soft endorses themotte.

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