Note that I’m not necessarily opposed to her facing consequences for killing him – my issue is with how gleefully NYPost is framing it as if she just attacked him out of the blue and shoehorning her into the “evil transgenders” stereotype
You don’t shoot two mags into someone out of self defense and you don’t stab someone 14 times out of self defense. But hey, it’s not like she had committed knife crimes 5 times before that.
She cut in line, he yelled slurs, she spat, he punched and then she stabbed him to death. And then proceeded to tell people she would do it again and was glad he died. Yeah, you’re kind of a shitty person for this.
Punch the guy, stun gun the guy, pepper spray the guy, you have my blessing and support. You don’t fucking kill someone.
The entire media campaign surrounding this is also despicable: For one group, she is the living embodiment of the ebul trans people, who are all just men in disguise trying to molest kids, for another group she is a brave, yet innocent bean who should be totally acquitted. Both groups are morons.
IMHO, she should serve a long ass sentence.
Yeah the fact that she is transgender has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that she murdered someone, the only reason the press is including that fact is to stir up drama, hate, and ad revenue. It’s pretty despicable, but I have come to expect nothing more from the press. There is no such thing as an honourable news reporter these days, just gossip columnists.
My read on it is that they’re intentionally cross wiring it to blur the issue and attach a negative colloquialism to trans people. This is part of how a group becomes considered untermensch by our illustriously imbecilic regime. If I was trans I would gtfo the country now, no joke. This is some goebbels-type shit, so you know it’s probably Steven Miller’s idea, that fucking psychotic dweeb
Aha. “cross wiring”. It’s not sexism or racism or a bigoted hate crime, it’s just “cross wiring”
Cross wiring, as in to, use preexisting hatred or fear of a subclass to apply it to another one. Such as fear of mentally I’ll murderers into fear of trans or hatred of pedophiles to attach it to multiple groups in the past years. It helps people to justify what should be immediately recognizable as sexism or racism or bigotry.
That feels easy reading comprehension and you are in a desire to be angry to avoid the obvious conotation to yell that people are not using words you like. Its not productive to you or others or conversation
It was self defense though, not murder. Seems like she just got carried away with defending herself instead of being killed. It’s a kill or be killed world out there.
You don’t get to claim self-defense in an altercation you started and escalated. Or I guess you can try, but you’re gonna have a bad time
That’s wild.
It doesn’t matter who started it, if you’re afraid for your life, I think you have the right to defend your life.
If you escalate it, you will eventually get into a point where you fear for your life, so then literally every conflict you can then claim self defense.
I think that’s what cops do.
And should we support cops for doing that?
don’t shoot two mags into someone out of self defense and you don’t stab someone 14 times out of self defense.
I work in a trauma ward. It’s not unusual to see people get stabbed dozens of times, whether it’s self defense or not. People who get stabbed don’t get dropped like a gun shot wound victim, they bleed out.
So more often or not if there’s a confrontation with a knife people will keep stabbing until the person stops being a threat, which can take a while.
Yeah it’s not like the movies, people don’t just fall over when they’re grazed by a blade or pistol-caliber bullet. If all I had was a knife to defend myself against an attacker I would choose “keep stabbing until they stop moving” even if that looks worse to juries. Better than being shot in the back trying to run.
Technically you aren’t allowed to stab until they stop moving, just until they are no longer a threat. Stab em in the leg and run. Self defence isn’t a license to kill it’s a way to not go to jail if killing was literally the option available.
Yeah she did a dick move then escalated into murder with 0 remorse. Life without parole.
Wait it’s self defense though, and not murder.
What people are trying to say, and that is clearly going way over your head, is that this was NOT self defense.
No need to be a dick. I get that you’re frustrated, and that’s okay. Being a dick, though, that’s on you.
But my point of being facetious is to point out the dishonesty or heavy bias in framing it as murder, when the discussion really is all about whether or not it was self defense.
People are loudly saying how punishment should be, or taking things out of context or loading the presentation emotionally with other circumstances. All of which are intellectually dishonest and jumping the gun. Everyone’s welcome to their opinions, but we all need to try to focus more on constructive discussion, rather than infighting over a news story because nobody can stay on the actual topic, resulting in everybody being frustrated and arguing about different things.
The subject is, “self defense or not?”
Obviously, you and I differ on our opinions, but we have also neither gone over all the evidence nor even discussed what evidence or suspicions we have. So saying your equally uniformed opinion is going over my head is not just rude and self centered, but it’s also… Potentially just wrong.
So in the theme of olive branches and keeping it mature and civil:
I say it could have been self defense because she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her who was throwing out hate speech.
You say it was not self defense because…?
she was being beaten by a guy bigger than her
No, he was smaller.
who was throwing out hate speech.
Not punishable by death in the land of the free last time i checked.
You’re right she was taller…
But after reading many articles, it still sounds like self defense to me. It sounds like two people got into a petty altercation, and hate speech amplified emotions greatly. I don’t know if you know, but trans women are VERY often victims of abuse and murder simply for being trans.
And going off the guy’s hate speech AND throwing the first punches, and that she gave him a final warning while supposedly backed into a corner, it sounds like she came out on top and went a little crazy over it.
Honestly, if I were in her situation and a guy cut in front of me and started calling me hate speech AND started attacking me, I would be both furious and terrified. I’m not nearly as abused as she was, but after going over what still feels like incomplete facts, I really don’t blame her. My issue lies with the quick condemnation voices of her, here, and the heavy bias it feels like it stems from.
Like I could very well be wrong, but judging by everybody who wants blood here being shockingly belligerent, I’m approaching with caution and skepticism.
Maybe you have a source of facts that I’m not aware of that you could share?
The same sources as everyone else.
She started it, she’s bigger than him, she escalated it, she drew a knife, she has priors with knife-related incidents, she showed no remorse. You trying to defend her seems like trans exceptionalism. Trans are people, so there are good trans people and bad trans people. You can guess which option prevails in these comments.
Yeah but this just makes her a shitty human, there was no need to mention they were trans.
Think about all the scared transphobes less likely to harass transgenders as a result this stabbing. She probably prevented numerous trans people from being assaulted and prevented some trans kids from committing suicide due to a reduction in bullying. She’s a hero. IMHO, she should get a medal.
Also, by adhering to the principles of self-defense, which the founding fathers advocated for via the 2nd Ammendment, what she did was an act of American patriotism.
Think about all the transphobes who will now see trans people as violent and callous. If this has any effect, it’ll increase the likelihood of violent attacks.
Which in increase the likelihood of more sensationalist “news”…
Which will up the likelihood of self defense. Gotta defend myself against being murdered. Even if it means kill or be killed.
It’s almost like the media has twisted all of this to inspire infighting to distract from other problems. Like the incoming lawless fascism state that’s going to further twist all facts and reporting to use conformity to delete anything and anyone they don’t like or threatens their power.
Next time they wont spit, they’ll escalate further ti avoid retaliation
Damn. I gotta up my self defense game then. She’s a paragon.
Holy shit she emptied two mags into him and then stabbed him 14 times and then claimed self defense? That’s actually insane.
No. She just stabbed him. I said that as an example.
To be fair: once self-defense “kicks in” (in any case, not just this one), one should empty two mags if it is what it takes to make the threat stop. or feel like it stopped.
That’s the thing about self defense, you don’t get to decide how much is too much, if you are on the receiving end. All you get to do is NOT make it something your victim decides to implement in the first place.
Imma be honest: if you reload after dumping the first mag into someone, it’s getting into manslaughter territory.
Self defense is also (at least in Germany, don’t know how it’s handled in the Land of the Castle Doctrine) about a measured response. Using a weapon after feeling your life is in danger: A-okay. Bashing someone’s skull in repeatedly after they stopped being a threat: not so okay. The police shooting an attacker three times in the chest: A-okay. Dumping two mags into someone: definitely not okay.
yeah most states have a “stopped being a threat” point; I posit it is probably common to see someone not used to fighting to not know when the threat really stops in addition to the adrenaline thing.
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this case for sure. but thats the point about initiation of “self defense.” you lose the choice after you make it go that far. tip: don’t fight.
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i don’t disagree. i was simply defending legitimate self defense.
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Did he attack her though? Seems from the articles I read that she spat on him first. That’s the attack.
It also seems she was arrested 5 times prior for knife crimes.
There’s 15 very big reasons that say it was certainly not self-defence.
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There’s a reason they tell you NOT to use a knife in a self defense scenario. It is nearly impossible to defend especially if you kill the attacker.
I think you statistically have a better chance of getting away with “executioner style” shots with a gun than knife use in self defense.
Knives are tools not weapons.
A knife fight cuts everyone. That’s why it’s a shit weapon.
Not if you study the blade. Like me.
I’m sorry your joke didn’t land, I, for one, snorted air out my nostrils quite handily.
Kid. Don’t. Ok. Just dont
lol tough room
Nope just too many real edgelords. If you were joking, my apologies
Not everyone on the internet understands sarcasm unless you put a “/s” unfortunately.
Hey, clear handwritten correspondence used to be a thing, so the jokes were easy to see. Now everyone is just saying whatever, so it’s hard to tell
Also, there are real people who say that, so…
You know something is up when they state that they are transgender when it bears no meaning to the actual article. This would be the same as “Gay man murdered people” the point is bigotry.
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If a WASP with a trump shrine and 20 guns has mental health issues and kills 4 people it’s mental health issues.
If anyone not fitting the conservative mold, even if they have mental health issues, kills people it’s about their differences from the mold that come first. “Mental health” might get a one line mention at the bottom of the article.
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My comment was regarding how the press, the Post in particular, handle crimes if they can get more views by making it about lgbtq. I had no intent to offer an unqualified diagnosis of the person in the OP article.
That’s my point, gender has no relation to violent crimes, bringing it up in the headline is just bigoted
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This might be an important detail to put in the post, but in the headline? It makes no sense past bigotry
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I agree, OP makes it out like it wasn’t an extreme act of violence, even though it did start as self defence.
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it did start as self defence.
Was the mailman armed? If not i can’t really frame stabbing someone with a knife as self-defense.
The real story is “Mentally Ill Person with a History of Knife Crime Stabs Mail Carrier in Fight”
To the people who consider them being trans headline-worthy, “trans person” and “mentally-ill person” are synonyms.
Violently homosexual man brutalizes innocent bystander in gay rage.
You gotta mention that the innocent bystanders are straight, or else conservatives won’t know whether to feel sorry for them or be happy they were attacked.
Innocent God fearing all American red blooded heterosexual bystanders.
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In a world where cis men have been deemed not guilty for murdering trans people just because they couldn’t tell until they got to the sex, there is no way I’d hold a trans person guilty of murder for defending themselves from an ongoing assault that very well could have escalated to a murder against her.
The story seems to be all over the place so it’s hard to piece together.
Getting in a fight over who’s first for a sandwich though and her comments afterwards make her seem like she was looking for an opportunity for something like this.
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Yeah, you hardly ever hear Christian gunman kills X children at school.
“I killed him laughing,” she said. “Oh, well. I’ll piss on his grave.”
“I did spit on him because he called me a f—-t,” Cruz’s confession reads. “I called him a dirty monkey. You said hurtful words, so I said hurtful words to you.”
As their dispute escalated, Cruz claimed that Hodges struck her three times before she pulled a knife and stabbed him in self-defense, according to court documents. “I told him, ‘You come to me and I’ll kill you,'” Cruz told investigators. “No motherf—-rs are going to put their hands on me no more.”
Hodges, who lived in the Bronx, reacted to the stabbing with astonishment, saying, “You really stabbed me?” to which Cruz replied, “Yes I did,” court documents state.
“I got in between them — twice,” said Janet Rich, who was in the deli buying coffee when the fight broke out. “There was another woman with dreadlocks [who] said, ‘Don’t do this. You have a good job. Let this go.’”
It’s interesting to see how women generally react using reasoning and deescalation - which is commendable - but also knowing crime statistics against women maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing if men feared that assaulting a woman could end up getting you stabbed.
Too bad she seem quite evil with the whole “killing him laughing” thing - but I’m sure this isn’t going to get twisted into all trans women are dangerous criminals and should be locked up in men’s prisons…
This is so disgusting because she totally deserved to stab him in self defense. Getting hit three times necessitates self defense.
And I, a ciswoman, laugh when shit gets real because I have weird berserker blood or something. I can’t control it, so if I’m going to stab someone in self defense, I would probably be laughing, too.
She could have filmed him and got him fired. You spit on people you get punched. If you are going to start a fight don’t do it by doing something that instantly starts the fight while doing nothing to actually slow down your opponent. She could still have backed away, used pepper spray, used a taser, punched back.
All of these would see him face 99.9% of the consequences instead of him being dead and her life ruined.
You can’t start a fight and claim self care.
He said video showed Hodges hurled slurs at Cruz, and that she only used the pocket knife — which she bought at a dollar store moments before the altercation, prosecutors claimed — after she felt threatened.
Hodges took off his jacket in the video, “the international symbol in New York City for ‘Let’s go, we’re going to fight,’ and rolls up his sleeves and hits her,'” Schuman told the court.
“While he’s still berating her, he called her a f—-t and a t—-y and she spit on him.”
So let me first say, I took that word for word, in the order you see it, from an earlier New York Post article. I hate giving them any attention, but the screenshot of a headline we’re commenting on came from a blurb from the same website, as an ‘update’ to the article I linked. It really shows that ya’ll didn’t actually read anything, and are just commenting on other comments. They were at a bodega, where she allegedly cut in line. That’s what started all this. She was supposed to ‘get him fired’ when he was off duty? You know how hard it is to get a postal worker fired?
So they’re just two people at a bodega. She allegedly cut in line- I can’t see her saying she did, or didn’t, or where there was any reported camera footage. This dude starts screamin and cussin. She spits in his face. He hits her three times, she knifes him with the knife she just bought next door.
The fact that people are jumping to defend a guy hitting a woman for spitting in his face, because it’s “escalating” and disrespectful, but ignoring that it was a response to escalating and disrespectful behavior, is ridiculous. You don’t blame the guy who got knifed for yelling slurs first? You don’t blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face? Why is she supposed to quietly and meekly accept this behavior when he can make her feel unsafe?
A man makes me feel unsafe and then hits me, three times! Three! I should absolutely knife him. I probably should’ve knifed him after the first time. (I’m kind of a big wimp so I don’t think I’d be able to knife a guy, but I for sure would be right to defend myself.) And you know what? I’m a dumpy, middle-aged, short white woman. If a guy hits me even once and I knife him in self defense, and then say, “he deserved it,” there are a lot of people who would be agreeing with me.
Spitting on someone is an assault. Insulting someone is not. The two things are not comparable.
You don’t blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face?
To be clear, I wouldn’t escalate anything in general, if someone cuts in line or whatever, not worth picking a fight for such silly things. But if you spit to someone in their face, getting punched is something that it’s well within the realm of things you should expect. From an ethical point of view, I probably wouldn’t do either, but in general spitting is what turned this uncivilized event (from both parties) into a fight.
If a guy hits me even once and I knife him in self defense,
Self-defense laws vary a lot across countries. At least where I live, defense has to be motivated and proportional. If someone would slap you - for example - and you stab them, that probably wouldn’t count as self-defense. I would personally disagree with you in that context, and probably a judge would too (at least here).
I don’t like arguing from a legal standpoint, because a legal standpoint is not necessarily a moral one, but where I live, things are different.
Stabbing has always the risk of being fatal. No slur deserves death.
Edit: to expand to that, being motivated and proportional are two principles that I find very moral. I agree that legal and moral are not the same, but in this case I think the law is absolutely aligned with my moral. Stabbing someone for a slap or a slur is completely disproportionate and I would absolutely not consider it justified. Being assaulted and fearing from your life, that is different.
Punching someone also has the risk of being fatal.
The fact that people are jumping to defend a guy hitting a woman for spitting in his face, because it’s “escalating” and disrespectful, but ignoring that it was a response to escalating and disrespectful behavior, is ridiculous. You don’t blame the guy who got knifed for yelling slurs first? You don’t blame the guy for striking her after getting spit in the face? Why is she supposed to quietly and meekly accept this behavior when he can make her feel unsafe?
Lemmy just hates women tbh
I keep thinking… nobody (that I know of) was mad when that one guy called the other the n word, and threatened to beat his ass, so he bashed his face in with a twisted tea. A woman gets slurred at and spits in a guy’s face, and it’s okay to hit her? Three times? She’s not allowed to defend herself?
It’s hypocritical. Either hate speech is violence or it’s not.
(In case it’s not clear, I may not have violence in me, but I fully believe twisted tea guy did the right thing.)
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That (and that history of mental illness) make me think they should’ve put her in a mental institution. The woman is not well. The attention from this isn’t going to fix it either, that’s for sure.
I mean, there’s video of her getting beaten on by a couple of men either earlier this year, or last year. She said before the whole knife incident that she’d kill the guy if he laid hands on her, because no one is going to ever do that to her again. “Never again” is something I’ve heard from many other survivors. This woman has a responsibility not to be around others who might trigger her (especially while she possesses a knife) but I feel like that’s the survivor mantra.
And I feel like she’s not getting grace that I would get in her position.
Now I love sharing what my fiance thinks when stuff like this happens, and his opinion is, she shouldn’t have escalated it, she was wholly wrong, 15 years is dumb. It’s hilarious that we have very different reasoning and the same conclusion.
So bodily fluids of other ppl really gross me out, does that mean getting spit on gives me the right to use self defence? Id rather get punched many many times than spit on for context
I think if you were all up in someone’s space screaming at them, there’s a certain level of expected spit contact there just from talking, right?
Which is another reason you and I wouldn’t be in this position. Gross!
But I do want to clarify I don’t think she should be able to just like, walk away scot free from this. I just whole-heartedly disagree with people who want her dead. Or who think that fifteen years isn’t a long enough sentence. Fifteen years is a long time. People are way too ready to discard people in this country.
Hehehehe I wanna stab the homophobe too uwu~
💅💅💅
Queen you are so getting banned for this but I need you to know that it’s 100% worth it
if these type of men fear getting stabbed, they might just knock them out in one hit instead of spitting on them, both scenarios are bad
“I killed him laughing. Oh, well. I’ll piss on his grave.”
Sorry, but this IS pure evil.
Yeah, I’m trans and find this pretty indefensible. I’ve gotten slurs yelled at me, I’ve never started a physical fight over it and certainly never fucking stabbed someone 14 times to death.
Yeah, I’d probably feel worse for her if she seemed to have felt anything about this. There’s no reason to ever feel happy about having killed someone. Perhaps relieved as in a “it’s finally over” kind of way. But finding the fact that you’ve killed someone funny? Not reasonable whatsoever. He shouldn’t have called her slurs, but words deserve words, actions deserve action. Fuck both of them.
Wild that in the article it says he hit her 3 times before she stabbed him.
Yeah. Stabbed him 14 times. Laughing while doing it. Talking about how much she loved it. How she wanted to do it again. Self defense is more than fine, it’s damn good to stand up for yourself, but spitting on someone and escalating it into a fight that you use as an excuse to kill someone is unacceptable. If it was a Republican who spat on someone, starting a fight before shooting them 14 times, saying how much he loved shooting her and how he’d love to do it again, I’d say that’s indefensible and he’s an evil bastard, just like this woman is.
Self-defense endong in the attackers death doesn’t make the killer a bad person. The facts of this circumstance, as I know and understand them (which very well may be flawed, it’s not like I was there) lead me to the conclusion that she’s an evil bastard. Trans people are just fucking people. We can be evil bastards, the same as everyone else. We may be at higher risk of violence due to hateful bigots, but that doesn’t excuse the act of murder. The act of killing, sure, if necessary in the course of self defense. However, as I know and understand what happened (and seemingly the jury as well), that was not the case here.
Hate me if you want to, I’m used to it. I just want to speak out because I have seen the whole “excuse terrible actions from your side no matter what and refuse to look at reality” thing from shitbag republicans SO MUCH and I hate to see allies doing it too.
Giggles
ITT: propaganda successfully vilifying trans people as a group and idiots gobbling it up
Ask yourself why the news never specifies criminals gender identities unless it’s one of the scapegoats.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
I doubt they framed the dude who chocked the homeless man to death on the subway as a “disgusting human being”
Upstanding heterosexual cisgendered male citizen forced to take homeless bum’s life in deadly subway altercation.
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When you’re being assaulted and have no way of knowing whether they’re going to kill you for being trans (something you know happens with alarming frequency), why would you show remorse for defending yourself against a violent, “pure evil” bigot?
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He threw a plastic bottle and she then stabbed him to death. She was charged with 2nd degree murder and pleaded guilty.
Yeah, as much as this framing of “pure evil” is nonsense, where they quote the family of the deceased - everything I found does not make this a legitimate case of self-defense, even if 100% of her story is true.
Quoting from this one:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2025/05/30/jaia-cruz-admits-stabbing-postal-worker-death-harlem-deli-sentenced/Cruz’s attorney claimed his client, a transgender woman, lashed out against Hodges because the 36-year-old postal worker had made a slur “about her gender identity.”
Hodges and Cruz were waiting in the sandwich line at the deli counter at Joe’s Grocery, on Lenox Ave. near W. 118th St., on Jan. 2 when the postal worker accused her of cutting the line.
Cruz claimed that Hodges had ridiculed her with homophobic remarks and struck her several times before she pulled a knife and fatally stabbed him.
She showed no remorse for her actions when interviewed by detectives at the 28th Precinct in Harlem.
“I hope he’s maggot food,” Cruz told detectives, according to court documents. “I killed him laughing. Oh, well. I’ll piss on his grave.”
While there is some sympathy for her there with me, understanding that some things can just make you snap - unless there are very different laws at play, answering harrassment over a fight over cutting in line with several repeated stabs is legally never self-defense.
And while morally, not “pure evil” by a long shot, and them presenting it as such is despicable - but trans people are people, and people can do shitty people things, like murder someone in overreaction when a fight escalates. The other guy using slurs, and even striking her is no excuse, if you pull a knife during a fistfight, and then repeatedly stab the other person - with witnesses reporting they tried to break up the fight, so potential for de-escalation was there - even if they are scum and started the thing, you are not just defending yourself, you got angry and out of that anger - no matter how justified that anger was - you killed a person.
Yea, as awful as the NY Post is for framing it this way, this ain’t about them being trans. She bought a knife, wanted to stab someone, picked a fight and continually escalated (she fucking spat on him, sorry but bodily fluids are an assault and the dude had every right to treat it as being hit) until she pulled a knife in an encounter she started.
Got hit three times before pulling a knife? Just cuz she was too fucking slow to stab him after the first hit like she wanted to.
Can’t believe there’s people defending this.
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NY Post is staffed by scumbag shitheads.
Exactly, and if they stopped “reporting” things this way they’d go out of business and their horrible customers would probably make something even worse more popular.
Here is CBS’s coverage of the event:
A deli worker told CBS News New York that Hodge was ordering a sandwich when a woman at the counter got angry and began arguing with him over who was first in line to order. According to the deli worker, in that instant, the woman pulled out a knife and stabbed Hodge in the stomach. USPS confirmed Hodge was a letter carrier assigned to Manhattan.
It appears to have started over a dispute over who was first in line. It’s up to you to decide if that’s a rational reason to attack someone with a knife, regardless of your sexuality / gender identity.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/usps-worker-stabbed-to-death-in-harlem/
In this version nobody attacked her.
Ny post is still anti -trans regardless
The last sentence isn’t about the trans woman but the author describing themselves.
I hope she gets acquitted.
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Welp, at least he isn’t going to call anyone else slurs anymore, that’s definitely a plus.
Cruz claimed that Hodges had ridiculed her with homophobic remarks and struck her several times before she pulled a knife and fatally stabbed him.
I wish I was as cool as her
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He didn’t get killed because he insulted someone. He got killed because he thought he could assault a trans woman and get away with it.
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He was murdered because he called someone a name. That caused her to spit on him which he responded to by striking her. At every turn she was the aggressor.
I don’t think you know what that word means. Not only he was a transphobe piece of shit and started the whole confrontation in that specific way, at every turn he chose to escalate despite the involvement of the bystanders to pacify the situation. You just don’t have the right to enact violence on people, sometimes you find that out the hard way.
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I only stab people with consent. I wish I was brave enough to get dirty with a transphobe’s blood ☺️🤤😋
Coolness like that isn’t realistic for normal people like us.
You know how many trans people commit suicide because they are ridiculed, spat at, hit, degraded in all sorts of circumstances all the time?
If people are more afraid to treat trans people like shit, that means fewer trans kids and trans people killing themselves.
She likely saved more lives by 1 death. There should be a culture of fear around disrespecting trans people. I am glad assholes will be more afraid that the trans person they dislike could have a knife and could stab them. She’s an American Hero.
Also fuck you. Now multiply that by 1000, all the time, every day, and that’s how trans people feel all the time you stupid ignorant fuck.
I’m a trans woman. Self defense? Stabbing someone 14 times to death and talking about how much you loved it and would do it again? That’s pretty plainly not self defense. Even if you are happy a transphobe got atabbed to death (please, develop some empathy) she clearly deserves the sentence she got. Trans people are just people, some of us are evil bastards, just like all the other people. I’ve gotten slurs yelled at me, I would fight back if I needed to, but I’d never take sadistic glee in murdering someone. Please, consider what I’ve said. Try to understand why I said it. Don’t bother ranting at me in a reply, I’m preemptively blocking you because I truly don’t believe you want to do anything but argue.
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As a bi guy, who probably doesn’t come across as obviously effeminate when talking, who is probably able to walk down the street without getting dirty looks for being bi, who probably is able to go to a deli and buy a sandwhich without people knowing you are bi, you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about…
But a lot of idiots are hot… Which makes me think you might be hot… And if you are bi and hot we should kick it sometime. You want to give me the help I need? ;-)
this post is complete dogshit. “self defense” my ass
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You can absolutely get murdered by an unarmed person
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That’s complete bullshit.
How many manslaughter cases have there been where 2 people get in a fist fight and one of them gets brained on the concrete?
To be clear, the claim that it’s legally indefensible may be true, but your life is absolutely in danger in an unarmed fight
So if an MMA fighter starts kicking your ass, you aren’t allowed to use a weapon to defend yourself because they are unarmed?
Armed vs unarmed is not a definitive factor in a self defense case. The criteria are that a defender who 1. reasonably believes they face a 2. credible, 3. criminal, 4. imminent, 5. threat of death or grievous bodily harm, may use any level of force 6. necessary to stop that threat.
Reasonable belief, credible threat, criminal threat, imminent threat, sufficient threat, necessity of force.
An unarmed attacker can, indeed, generate all six criteria required to justify lethal force in self defense.
The jury doesn’t seem to think that happened in this particular case, but it certainly can happen and has happened. Please don’t repeat that nonsense that it can’t.
That’s easy to say when you’re not the one getting punched in the face repeatedly. You never know how far a violent person will go.
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armed people will never have a self defense claim against an unarmed person
Oh bullshit. 95lb woman against me, a 225lb man? If I were to attack a woman like that you are saying she shouldn’t be able to level the field.
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But you’re making absolute statements and it’s just false.
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Go ask a criminal attorney if there’s a self defense claim
If you had ever followed that advice, you wouldn’t be repeating this nonsense. You would have learned the 6 general criteria required for a self defense claim, and that none of those criteria require the defender to be less-well-armed than the attacker.
This subject is too serious for your uninformed opinion. PM me your zip code, and I would be happy to find you a class on the laws regulating self defense.
The specifics of this case are irrelevant. You said multiple times that an armed person has no claim to self defense against an unarmed person and that is demonstrably and obviously untrue. The fact that you’re carrying a weapon doesn’t require you to tolerate unlimited violence by someone without a weapon. That’s crazy.
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You are not required to brandish a weapon because this isn’t a thing you should do outside of a movie. Waving around your gun means someone takes it from you.
This is even more laughable with a knife.
I’m not defending anything except my position that your assertion is incorrect. Brandishing a weapon with the intent to scare someone off is illegal in its own right in every jurisdiction I am familiar with in the US. You are giving bad advice and you need to educate yourself before you give what could be interpreted as legal advice.
You are defending someone
Most of the people here are rebutting your general claim that self defense is only available to the unarmed. Those rebuttals don’t constitute support for this woman.
If you are armed you can force them to leave through threats
I am making a general comment on your argument, and not specific to this case. Like most of the arguments directed at you in this thread, My comments should not be construed as support for this woman in this particular case.
You are conflating “threat” and “force”. They are distinct. A “threat” is an attempt to influence the subject’s decision to act, by making them fear a future action. “Force” is a physical action imposed on the subject.
A threat is something intended to convince the subject to decide to act in a particular way. Force is when the subject’s choices are removed, and their body is physically manipulated against their will.
Force can also be a threat, but a threat alone is not force. Holding a knife to your neck and demanding your wallet is force (your neck is being physically manipulated against your will) and a threat (you are being coerced into giving up your wallet).
There are six generalized criteria for defensive force. A person who 1. Reasonably Believes an imperiled person faces a 2. Credible, 3. Criminal, 4. Imminent, 5. Sufficient threat (sufficient = “death or grievous bodily harm”) may use any level of force 6. Necessary to stop that threat.
When you articulate your arguments about this specific case using the above terminology, you will find that your opinion is shared by the overwhelming majority. There is very little support in this thread for her self defense argument.
An armed person theoretically has a greater capacity of force than an unarmed person, but threats made be an unarmed person can certainly justify a forceful response by the armed person.
What is the acceptable level of violence LGBT people must endure before responding? Keep in mind LGBT people are constantly receiving low levels of emotional abuse: dirty looks, mean laugh, cruel comments… So when violence happens, exactly how long should someone like that wait? Would 4 punches have been okay?
Also, have you ever heard of one punch knockout deaths? They do happen, people get into bar fights, someone gets knocked out, falls backward, hits their head, and dies. Being hit and punched can get lethal…
Your logic feels transphobic to me, not genuine thought free of prejudice.
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This is basically fabrication. For instance around here in WA a woman shooting a man attacking her was deemed self defense because he presented a threat of great bodily harm or death you know actual legal standards. If she didn’t use it her merely having the gun wouldn’t prevent said harm so she got a free pass to ventilate him.
He lived she didn’t go to jail
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After getting hit 3 times?
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The person doesn’t have to have a weapon to be a threat to your lif. Based on your logic someone could say I’m going to beat you to death and go about doing it and 10 minutes later with 17 broken bones you’d have no case for self defense that doesn’t track at all.
I think you misunderstand
Yes, as the armed person you do not have any claim of self defense against an unarmed person.
This is absolutely false. Arming yourself does not prevent you from making a claim of self defense against an unarmed attacker. “Being armed” does not negate your claim.
that’s every gun self defense claim ever othetwise
I’m opposed to her facing consequences for killing him. If it had been a white cis woman instead, we wouldn’t be here
Correct. You would not be defending a cisgender murderer. On the the “right side” gets to do whatever they want.
Does this mean they’ll put “cisgender” in the title for all the other criminals?
Its insane how every single trans and queer person is expected to be perfect law abiding citizens or suddenly the act of being Queer makes you a murderer. They used the same justification during the Holocaust to murder Jews and they’re using the justification to murder Palestinians.
If she’d strangled a homeless person in the subway instead, she’d be a national hero.
