- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@lemmy.zip
The TL;DR is that the organization that controls the HDMI standard won’t allow any open source implementation of HDMI 2.1.
So the hardware is fully capable of it, but they’ll get in trouble if them officially implement it.
Instead it’s officially HDMI 2 (which maxes out at 4k @ 60Hz), but through a technique called chroma sub-sampling they’ve been able to raise that up to 4k @ 120Hz.
However there are some minor reductions in picture quality because of this, and the whole thing would be much easier if the HDMI forum would be more consumer friendly.
In the meantime, the Steam Machine also has display port as a completely issue free display option.
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I’m not fully up-to-date with bleeding edge display technologies but is there any reason that a passive DP to HDMI adapter couldn’t easily solve this issue? And would it cause Valve any strife to include one in the box?
Capitalism is so cool dude I love having inferior transit of 1s and 0s because some group of leeches in California own the shape that those 1s and 0s pass through
I so wish they only gave a complementary display port and not an HDMI.
Fuck HDMI! All my homies use DisplayPort.
Unfortunately my TV is not one of your homies.
The main feature of Hdmi has always been DRM.
As a bazzite user, with it connected to my living room TV that only has HDMI ports, yeah this was obviously why Valve said 2.1 isn’t supported at the steam machine reveal.
AMD already spent a significant amount of effort implementing HDMI2.1 in their open driver in such a way that it would be compliment. The suits from HDMI consortium still said No.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/HDMI-2.1-OSS-Rejected
AMD Linux engineers have spent months working with their legal team and evaluating all HDMI features to determine if/how they can be exposed in their open-source driver. AMD had code working internally and then the past few months were waiting on approval from the HDMI Forum… Sadly, the HDMI Forum has turned down AMD’s request for open-source driver support.
AMD Linux engineer Alex Deucher commented on the ticket:
"The HDMI Forum has rejected our proposal unfortunately. At this time an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation is not possible without running afoul of the HDMI Forum requirements."I have a HDMI splitter, like a 5 input 1 output thing. I have not used it in awhile. Does HDMI pass through the DRM or is the DRM in the splitter?
The source device (the steam machine in this case) will check with the display and see what the highest HDMI standard they both support is. It may also check if your splitter supports it, but I suspect the splitter is just a passthrough device.
I figured. I also used the wrong term, it is a switch.
I know some HDMI switches will, some won’t and others will strip the DRM and let the picture go through. I had to try several ones to get a conference room TV to work with a HDMI auto switch. Funny it was the cheaper model on Amazon lol
I’m honestly surprised TV OEMs haven’t bothered to at least try throwing in DisplayPort, especially during the period of time it far exceeded the highest possible quality on HDMI.
HDMI is just the last hardware standard created from the ashes of the format wars that has no practical place anymore. It only exists to collect hostage licensing fees.
Tv oems are the ones that set up the hdmi club. They want the content encrypted with drm, from transit, to your pc, to your cable, to your screen. Look up the analog hole. This battle has been going on for 20 years. Share this with interested people.
HDCP (the DRM HDMI uses) is interface-agnostic though? It works over DisplayPort, heck it even works over DVI. I think that makes your argument about DRM fall apart, though TV OEMs did indeed promote the adoption of HDMI.
I don’t know why they’d think I’d capture 600MB/s of uncompressed video though.
Since the torrent sites are crammed with full quality 4k Bluray remuxes and WebDLs direct from Amazon, there’s clearly easier and better ways of doing this than putting encryption in a cable.
Oh, they are working on that too. Win 11 depends on TPM modules, and it’s not by mistake. Once they have the full software and hardware pipeline, they can control the media we see (for profit, but also for authoritarism because the jump is so small).
I love that you’re talking about these issues, but the TPM has nothing to do with any of this. It’s also not a hard requirement for Windows 11 (even though that’s basically all the media was talking about).
The TPM included DRM as its objective 20 years ago. They backtracked at that moment because of serious backslash. Now, it’s present and a dependency. Then, it will be needed for banking. Afterwards, for social media and social credit like in China.
If you think they are going to stop where we are…
I think you’re confusing TPM (Trusted Platform Module) with TEE (Trusted Execution Environment).
If not, I’d love some links to read about that TPM with DRM from 20 years ago. However… I don’t know, why would there be backlash about something that has then been implemented anyway, just in TEE instead?
Because TV OEMs are the ones in the HDMI consortium.
fuck HDMI
all my homies hate HDMI
Why?
You can look up most of the issues with the standard, but TL;DR: DRM, expensive licensing fees, suboptimal performance compared to DisplayPort, and not able to be implemented in FOSS or even OSS systems (because of the shitty DRM which can be circumvented by an AliExpress splitter lmao)
CEC is not standard even though it should be a standard for hdmi.
I hated HMDI when it came out, and I continue to hate it.
And what do you use?
DVI, of course
Displayport
Component RCA like god intended
DisplayPort?
I see.
I tried to stick with DP only, but the tvs with it are getting rarer and much more expensive.
Buy monitors instead. Also saves you the headache of dealing with “smart TV” bullshit.
Unfortunately, many large monitors are becoming “smart” now.
While I agree, I think you might not find a monitor that sitze. tvs and monitors have different use cases:
Monitor:
- High dpi
- Low distance to viewer
- Must support high resolution, high frame rate for games
- Must be compact enough for a desk
TV:
- low dpi
- greater distance to viewer
- 120hz and 1080 resolution enough for most movies and shows
- price and size more important than technical aspects.
Hard to find monitors larger than a certain size that aren’t exorbitantly expensive, and I do like a large screen when it comes to Couch Gaming and watching TV (well, streaming video, I ain’t gonna pay for a TV license just to watch the one terrestrial TV show I actually care about)
Do you know of any big dumb TVs or monitors that I could buy in Europe? I only know of Sceptre TVs which are mostly meant for businesses and storefronts but they are extremely hard to get in Europe.
Biggest I found is the Acer Nitro XV275KP3 Gaming Monitor. You kinda pay gaming hardware prices, but given the support for up to 120Hz and HDR10, I was OK with that. It’s mostly used for gaming, anyway.
It used to be that beamers were a way to sidestep the “smart” bullshit, but they started adding that, too. Even the business ones.A 27" monitor will not be anywhere near a replacement for 60" TV, I’m afraid.
That one is 27". I think that’s way too small for the living room. I also consider 120hz to be overkill for some couch gaming and movies.
Do let me know if you find something more suited.
DisplayPort rocks
Yeah fuck the video codec mafia and all these proprietary shits like HDMI
Fun fact, all of the audio codes are proprietary too. You won’t find a HDMI surround sound splitter on Aliexpress. Say no to HDMI, say no to E-ARC.
You know it reminds me of the academic publishing mafia of Elsevier and the like
Both cartels are leeching off often-publicly funded research.
I used to find it took forever to start showing a picture compared to HDMI on my PC. Getting a new GPU so maybe that will improve things.
What display are you using as well? That sounds quite unusual.
If you can find anything to connect it to.
HDMI needs to die.
Is this why DisplayPort looks better for me on Linux???
Yes. DP is the right choice for civilized people.
Yep it’s pretty much better in all regards.
The only downside is no ARC support, but I suppose support for that is pretty hit or miss anyway.
Honestly arc is a great idea that never seems to work for me. I’ll always be RIGHT there, but my Blu-ray player turns on randomly when I’m doing something else, or something like that. So I end up turning it off.
At this point just make an “adapter” that captures the disaply port signal and outputs it from a “supported” device
. And players that want to avoid the issue can use the Steam Machine’s DisplayPort 1.4 output, which supports even more bandwidth than HDMI 2.1 (and which can be converted to an HDMI signal with a simple dongle).
So, ship with a dongle.
Doesn’t the system driver need to support the standard?
That’s what I’m saying, it would be more complicated than a dongle, the PS5 has some sorta system that handles this, it would essientally be a device that supports it, that just decodes and encodes the video feed, as dumb as this sounds it’d the only soluations to use on most TVs
At this point stop using HDMI
I really wish I could find a TV within my desired specs that had DisplayPort. We will buy a Steam Machine to use it in place of our docked Steam Deck in the living room, so being able to use DP would be amazing.
Adapting DisplayPort to HDMI with minimal quality loss is child’s play. It’s the other way around that’s misery.
Any cheap adapter cable that supports DisplayPort In to HDMI Out should be perfectly fine.
I just realized I have such cable in my desk (brand new), DP to HDMI 4k 60fps
My spouse need something for the other way around for his desk setup
Those specs sound like HDMI 2 anyway. HDMI 2.1 can do 4K @ 144Hz with HDR. Or apparently even 10K @ 120Hz.
But the big thing with HDMI 2.1 is the cec protocol which doesn’t translate over an adapter unfortunately. But it is a very tiny thing most people won’t care about.
Would be cool if they put one in the box. Would save many sad christmas days as you wait for Amazon to come round with an adapter.
i want to say you can buy an adapter to get dp 1.4 out of steam machine and into hdmi 2.1 on a tv and should be fine. just has to be a powered adapter i believe
The powered adapters are for the other way around. DP has support for HDMI out without additional components, but ofc the HDMI forum makes converting HDMI to DP like pulling teeth.
