- cross-posted to:
- usnews@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@lemy.lol
Misinformation campaigns increasingly target the cavity-fighting mineral, prompting communities to reverse mandates. Dentists are enraged. Parents are caught in the middle.
The culture wars have a new target: your teeth.
Communities across the U.S. are ending public water fluoridation programs, often spurred by groups that insist that people should decide whether they want the mineral — long proven to fight cavities — added to their water supplies.
The push to flush it from water systems seems to be increasingly fueled by pandemic-related mistrust of government oversteps and misleading claims, experts say, that fluoride is harmful.
“The anti-fluoridation movement gained steam with Covid,” said Dr. Meg Lochary, a pediatric dentist in Union County, North Carolina. “We’ve seen an increase of people who either don’t want fluoride or are skeptical about it.”
There should be no question about the dental benefits of fluoride, Lochary and other experts say. Major public health groups, including the American Dental Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, support the use of fluoridated water. All cite studies that show it reduces tooth decay by 25%.
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“Medical freedom”, the rallying cry for all kinds of grifters spreading disinformation and wanting to roll back the progress made in public health.
And they don’t seem to like the fact that they have the freedom to filter the fluoride back out of the water.
…what?
AND THEY DON’T SEEM TO LIKE THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE THE FREEDOM TO FILTER THE FLUORIDE BACK OUT OF THE WATER.
fluoride is not easy to filter - its smaller than water molecules.
Right.
Let’s put any amount of contaminates in our drinking water just so people can “filter them out.”
I swear, some of you people are just too far gone.
Again, there are places where fluoride occurs naturally in drinking water at higher concentrations than it is added artificially and there don’t seem to be significant health problems.
Hmmmmm no ! I’m not against fluoride in water, I don’t care since I don’t live in north america but spreading disinformation does not help.
There is regions, especially in India, where fluoride occurs by naturally in water in high concentration which is causing multiple serious health issues.
“There are higher concentrations of fluoride in water than we usually put in it that is still healthy to drink” != “Any concentration of fluoride in water is safe”
Any substance becomes toxic if you ingest too much of it. If you exceed by a factor of 20 the amount of plenty of things people usually consume, it isn’t difficult to find things that are dangerous or even lethal. Say, coffee, beer, anti-inflammatories, chocolate, Coke.
Cool. I said higher concentrations that are added artificially, not extremely high concentration.
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Except fluoride isn’t a contaminate.
According to what?
Every single scientific study regarding the use of fluoride in drinking water to help protect oral health. Link me a scientific study that proves flouride in drinking water is harmful.
sadfsdfasfasf
The fluoride in your tap water is not a contaminant.
Says who?
Yes, the World Heath Organization (WHO) does say it is not a contaminent and that appropriate levels are needed.
sadfsdfasfasf
Literally every person who understands science and water treatment
“Contaminants” 🙄
medical freedom for me, but not for thee who want no more penis.
🥱
Or, give people the option to choose for themselves.
Scientific consensus has been wrong many times before, and it will be wrong many times again.
You do have the option to choose for yourself.
You can not only choose to filter it out, you can choose which filter you want to purchase from a selection. Here you go. https://apexwaterfilters.com/blogs/top-5-water-filters-to-remove-fluoride-from-water/
Right.
Let’s put any amount of contaminates in our drinking water just so people can “filter them out.”
Someone mentioned arsenic earlier in this thread, and I think I can find some study that says arsenic is good for you. Let’s add it to our water and anyone who thinks it’s harmful can just filter it out.
Also, I’m adding my fecal matter to the water supply to improve people’s microbiomes. They can just filter it out if they don’t like it.
Fluoride is not a contaminant, but please do find a study that says arsenic is good for you. This should be interesting.
Fluoride is not a contaminant
Says who?
https://gizmodo.com/hey-remember-when-people-used-to-eat-arsenic-as-a-heal-1676316276
It’s not a study, but there was a time when people believed arsenic wasn’t poisonous. There were most likely scientists back in the day advocating for its usage. You can find their work if you’re really interested.
A more recent and easier to research example would be all the “studies” saying lead is safe. Do I have to specifically point to those, or can you understand my point without it?
It’s not a study
Okay, so note what you claimed.
There were most likely scientists back in the day advocating for its usage. You can find their work if you’re really interested.
It’s not my job to prove you aren’t lying.
I mean, if you don’t want to understand then you won’t understand.
I’ve done my part. If you want to replace arsenic with lead, then will it make sense?
Probably not because you don’t want to understand.
Also,
Fluoride is not a contaminant
Says who?
You conveniently ignored this part.
sadfsdfasfasf
I’m struggling with this.
You’re saying that because science was wrong about something else, it must be wrong about fluoride?
I think that if you really dig into it, you’ll find that arsenic use wasn’t supported by science, but rather snake oil salesmen.
it must be wrong about fluoride?
This is where your confusion comes from. I never said it’s wrong about fluoride.
My point is that unless you understand the science yourself, you have faith in other people who do. Scientific consensus has been wrong in the past, and it will be wrong again in the future.
Everyone saying with such certainty that fluoride is good or bad without understanding the science themselves just highlights how most people treat science like a religion.
most people treat science like a religion.
That’s just not true. By it’s very nature, what we describe as “science” is reproducible. That means faith is not required.
If you understand the science yourself, then you’re correct.
The problem is that most people don’t understand the science and just have faith in other people who might.
No, my point is that because “science” is reproducible, you do not need faith in the people producing said science, nor do you need to understand it.
You merely need to confirm that it has been reviewed and accepted by other people who do understand it.
Have faith.
The thing that seriously hurts those anti-fluoridation nuts is that fluoride can naturally be in water supplies and there are water supplies with higher PPM fluoride amounts than municipalities that add them in the U.S., but there don’t appear to be any increased health issues.
Not that such people generally care.
As I said to a friend years ago: show me one case of fluoride poisoning…just one and I’ll believe you that it’s dangerous.
He couldn’t. End of discussion.
Children can theoretically get fluorosis in their teeth if they chug mouthwash, but it’s a pretty uncommon thing to do.
But… but… freedom!
Found this through a quick internet search if you’re interested.
Internets sleuthing points to you!
A massive accidental overdose (150x) in a water system, leading to acute illness and one death, for those interested.
Potential Role of Fluoride in the Etiopathogenesis of Alzheimer’s Disease
Aluminium and fluoride in drinking water in relation to later dementia risk
Higher levels of aluminium and fluoride were related to dementia risk in a population of men and women who consumed relatively low drinking-water levels of both.
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You just might be the dumbest motherfucker on Lemmy.
We evolved to get our nutrients from natural sources, some of those sources water … and we are filtering a lot of it out arbitrarily then being afraid to put it back.
There was an argument made a while back that filtering the lithium out of our water is messing with folks too.
So we took the lead out of the air and that made people less crazy, but we also took the lithium out of the water and that made people more crazy.
Hooray us.
To be fair we were putting the lead into the air in the first place.
Good luck getting the powers that be to start lithidating water.
That’s actually how we discovered that fluoride in public drinking water is good for your teeth. Colorado Springs had natural fluoride in their drinking water and their rate of cavities was way lower than the national average, so some dentists searched around to figure out the cause.
For once, the answer to a question posed in the headline is obviously yes.
yeah. Im happily surprised the article itself was not about the conspiracy nonsense.
It’s still platforming the conspiracy though and bringing it to more people’s attention.
I don’t think bringing attention to conspiracy theories as conspiracy theories is bad. If anything its a good thing. I mean if it was the about the lizard aliens or flat earthers it would be the same.
I’m not so sure about that after the last 8-9 years of political discourse in the US. You assume bringing light to them means people will see how ridiculous they are, but in reality they just bring the conspiracy into the forefront, where people then take sides and dig their heels in.
Trump getting a ton of coverage as the laughing stock candidate leading up to the 2016 election gave him the edge he needed to win while the rest of us thought the coverage would lead to a landslide victory for his opponent.
the other side of the coin is then its the “truth” mainstream media is hiding. ¯_ (ツ)_/¯
Hey, a article that bucks Betteridge’s Law.
Of course there’s no question, yes, and Republicans and communities should be ashamed at being this stupid to cater to such a dumb, ridiculous, and small group of idiots and are going to cost everyone more in dental insurance to socialize the cost of their stupidity.
They have their freedom, they are free to do whatever they want to filter their own drinking water. They’re free to buy or produce distilled water for all their consumption. They’re free to only ever drink beer. But the drinking water provided as a public good should be maintained for the good of the public, and when the studies are pretty clear that fluoridated water fights tooth decay, then fluoridated water it is.
Hear hear! Or is it: here here! Or may I’ll stick with: preach, brother!
So we’ve circled back to to water/fluoride water conspiracies again?
History, doomed to repeat, before our very eyes once more…
Can always rely on the classics to stir up the rubes. A new sucker born every minute.
Put the lithium in already.
Fuck it, put in arsenic
heavy metal riff
Ah. The benefits of being a boron based lifeform.
All cite studies that show it reduces tooth decay by 25%
But because of my sugar intake, my teeth are shit anyway
/s
I absolutely can’t stand minty or cinnamon toothpaste, and have really struggled with brushing my teeth because of it. It drives me absolutely insane that so many of the flavors I can tolerate are only available in fluoride free formulations and/or get discontinued.
I have issues with brushing too. I have a nerve disorder in my face which makes brushing my teeth extremely painful, so I can’t do it all that often. I definitely benefit from fluoridated drinking water.
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I never said my teeth were perfect, I said I get a benefit.
I mean, if you still get cavities and gum disease then what benefit are you really getting?
Fewer cavities and less gum disease. I’m not sure why you don’t consider making something less of a health problem to be beneficial.
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Be as dubious as you like.
You just seem to have poor dental health
I never said that, you did.
you don’t take care of your teeth properly.
Yes, I explained why.
You seem to be a very nosey person with strange opinions. Seems like you can easily do something about it, while Flying Squid can’t. Maybe take this opportunity?
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So, I do brush my teeth at least daily (I shoot for twice, but I’m not going to pretend that always happens), and I’ve recently started flossing once daily (recently as in, it was my New Years resolution).
I’ve only had cavities twice in my life - once when I spent 2 years living in Okinawa, and once when I got back from a deployment where we were advised to only drink bottled water.
No other adjustments to my routine. The only thing I can chalk it up to is the lack of fluoride in both instances. And like I said, I’m not someone who takes immaculate care of my teeth.
Edit: Purely anecdotal experience, obviously, I just really couldn’t come up with an alternative answer 🤷♀️
Ouch, that must really suck! I’m not dealing with actual physical pain here, just hate the minty fresh feeling in my mouth. Does mouthwash cause pain for you? I’ve never really used it, but briefly wondered if I could use a fluoride free toothpaste plus a fluoridated mouthwash, but I think I ran into the same issue with limited fluoridated flavors.
Mouthwash does not cause pain for me, but I think that’s pretty disgusting and I’m currently dealing with a different health problem that involves heaving. Hooray shitty genes. I may resort to it one day if I have to.
Crest two in one shield is strawberry flavor with fluoride. Source: I have a teen with the same aversion. It doesn’t have animals or anything on it, but it is a “kids” toothpaste. You’d never know without reading it though, so I thought I’d mention it. Sorry if you’ve already heard of that one.
I haven’t tried it, but will keep it in mind. I’m currently using the Hello brand toothpastes. They seem to be a little less sweet than most other kids toothpastes, which is a big plus for me. I like their bubblegum and orange flavors best, and the blue raspberry isn’t bad either. They have some other flavors without fluoride, so you have to pay attention though.
Orange? I’m going to have to try that one, that actually sounds amazing.
Yeah, Crest used to sell an orange flavored toothpaste that wasn’t a kid’s product, and when it got discontinued, I paid about $30 for 3 tubes, so I was super excited to find another orange toothpaste. The only challenge is that very few stores carry the orange one, so I think I ended up buying it directly from the manufacturer website.
Oh man I don’t remember the orange toothpaste, but I remember when Crest had the orange mouthwash bc that was my jam.
I love cinnamon, it’s so hard to find anymore, in contrast to your hatred, I wish they made more of it, but I also believe that they should be open to more flavors that aren’t just oriented toward children.
Huh. I see quite a few cinnamon options online, but I wouldn’t be surprised that it’s harder to find in physical stores. They really seem to be cutting back on options everywhere lately. I found a brand that I like, so I just order a few tubes at a time from their website.
Aquafresh Extreme or whatever has a citrusy taste with a hint of mint. I love it, but my fiance hates it. It’s called Mint Blast, but it’s so minty that it doesn’t taste minty to me.
You might like it, or you might hate it with the fire of a thousand suns.
OMG, both “extreme” and “blast” in combination with the word “mint” make me feel very strongly that I’ll hate it! Haha. That whole “icy fresh” breath thing is so uncomfortable to me. When I’m done brushing my teeth, I just want my mouth to feel neutral.
I read your comment earlier today and then by chance was going to reorder toothpaste tonight, and I realized the kind of toothpaste I recently fell in love with has a citrus and a grape flavor, so I hunted down your comment to share with you!
The toothpaste has both fluoride and hydroxyapatite, which helps rebuild enamel. Ever since I started using hydroxyapatite, my teeth have that “fresh from the dentist clean” feeling every time I brush them. I was using a Japanese brand of toothpaste for a few years because that’s the only place I found that kind of toothpaste, but it was fluoride free. Just one tube ago I found a brand that has both!
The brand is Carifree, and this is the one I use.
Looks like they also have citrus and grape mouthwash!
And I thought I was crazy when I paid $10 for a 6oz tube! Hahah. I do need a new dentist though, so I might just try one of the dentists near me that carries their stuff so I can grab a tube.
Yeah, I should have mentioned the price is pretty insane… I’d desensitized myself to it a bit because of the whole buying-Japanese-toothpaste thing wasn’t cheap, and now I just can’t stand not using hydroxyapatite for more than like a week, lol.
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We should not be encouraging the least among us.
And yet the least among us is now the Republican candidate for president.
Again.
… Again.
I’m running for president?
There’s at least one person worse than you and he’s running for president.
Tom Hanks?
Here in Germany, drinking water isn’t fluoridated but fluoridated salt is sold at every grocery store. I assume that fluoridated salt isn’t as easily available to those in the US who could now end up without fluoridated water, is it?
I have never seen fluoridated salt in the U.S. Our salt usually has iodine in it to make up for the iodine deficiency that was in American diets before that happened.
We’ve got both iodine and fluoride in our salt in Germany.
Das healthenboostensodiumchloride?
Nein, das Jodsalz mit Fluorid.
Yes. The answer is yes.
It’s not freedom if it contradicts science and goes against healthcare for the public.
…That’s a dangerous position to take.
How many times do you think there have been positions that were generally accepted as being correct that were later found to be wrong? Things that we had evidence at the time that demonstrated they were a net positive, that later ended up being deeply flawed or outright incorrect?
Your version of ‘freedom’ would also say that no person has freedom of religion, both because it contradicts science, and because religion can cause real harms to both physical and mental health.
I have not made any statement about a general definition of freedom. My position was solely focused on the uneducated instrumentalization of the concept of freedom with regard to the scientifically recognized use of fluoride to improve the dental health of the population.
It’s not freedom if it contradicts science
Are these not your words?
Yes they undoubtedly are.
As we’ve seen in the last few years, you can find experts to say whatever you need. That’ll have a longer lasting effect on the public’s psyche than anything.
You do not have the freedom to make my life worse. Period.
“Worse” is a value judgement rather than anything objective. People that like tinfoil headwear accessories would say that putting fluoride in the drinking water makes their lives “worse”. So where does that leave you?
Conflating well proven science with conspiracy theories is ridiculous at best.
By that logic there should be mandated exercise
Me not exercising doesn’t make you fat.
I disagree with them as well for different reasons but me not taking care of my teeth also doesn’t make yours fall out
You can do whatever you want to your teeth and you’re correct that it doesn’t effect me, but this isn’t a discussion about individual action or inaction. This is about what happens with the public water supply, which effects the entire public. That’s why his comment about “mandated exercise” is wrong. You not brushing your teeth doesn’t effect me, but removing the fluoridation from my water does.
I agree with you that its not about individual action, I was just saying your argument was kind of a non-sequitur. It was a hypothetical, so it’s more like if exercise was already mandated and the argument was to take it away. In this metaphor you would be arguing in favor of the mandated exercise, just like you’re arguing for fluoride, because you wouldn’t get enough exercise without it.
Whatever, it’s early, maybe I’m not making much sense. I wasn’t trying to start anything. I’m more or less undecided on the whole fluoride thing.
We have mandated exercise in schools. It’s good for people.
Just let the fuckers teeth fall out already. I am tired of so much effort being spent on people who clearly want to die. It is everything, from seatbelts to motorcycle helmets to vaccines to transfats to HFC drinks. They want to die? Let them. Maybe darwinism will save us from them maybe it won’t but at least we can all stop hearing about it.
A slicht problem with this approach is that for vaccines to be effective for anyone almost everybody has to be vaccinated…
Over enough time the only remaining people will be the vaccinated.
I’m pretty sure people criticized Republicans when they cheered on the whole “let them die” thing…
I’m glad people are finally taking a stand against Big Dental conglomerates. Wake up, people! Take charge of your own teeth!!
Edit: Sigh. I think I’ll just add “/s” to my username.
I was pretty sure it was a joke, but you can never tell when it comes to these sort of crazies.
So what it the disadvantage of fluride in the water? Please tell me.
Well, the fluoride calcifies in your pineal gland. It shows up on brain scans and if it is not centered can help indicate or diagnose brain tumors. Some also say that the calcification closes your third eye and prevents you from communing with the ether.
Wow. That sounds bad
ಠ_ಠ
I thought it’d be obvious that it was sarcasm given how preposterous my comment was. Come on…“Big Dental!” LOL
You would think no one would seriously use a term like “big dental,” but…
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/r3fqeb/big_dental_lies/
Lol wtf
haha you got me!!
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Fluoride is a neurotoxin, easy info to look up (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7230026/). Even if this is unproven, should we be putting drugs in the water where there are questions about how it affects brain development? If lead was good for our teeth, would that justify adding lead to our water?
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Drugging a population through tap water is a terrible way to dispense drugs. If you disagree, do you mind if I put LSD in your water? It’s been shown to have positive effects on mental health. How about lithium, should be add that too? Lithium is naturally found in some water also and also has been show to have positive mental effect in those areas, same story that got us to put fluoride in our water.
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Our tap water effects so much more than our teeth, ignoring all other effects because it reduces tooth decay is plain dumb.
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Fluoride is a mineral and builds up. Decades of fluoridated tap water used in gardens and our environment mean ever increasing toxin in our environment. It’s bad for plants (also easy to look up) and it’s effects on animals, birds, etc is unknown. Is it ok to gamble the well-being of other species when the tooth decay problem can be solved in ways without added risk?
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The fluoride added to tap water is not of pharmaceutical quality, it’s a waste product of fertilizer or nuclear material industries.
Hahahaha
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Get the fuck back up in my mouth, teeth!
They’re not listening! What do I do??
Poe’s law has only gotten more true over the last couple of decades.
thats brilliant really. I should highly consider that myself. although in this case it would not apply. I mean its often but still likely under 50% of my posts. mmmmmmm.
