- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- techtakes
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I feel like the amount of training data required for these AIs serves as a pretty compelling argument as to why AI is clearly nowhere near human intelligence. It shouldn’t take thousands of human lifetimes of data to train an AI if it’s truly near human-level intelligence. In fact, I think it’s an argument for them not being intelligent whatsoever. With that much training data, everything that could be asked of them should be in the training data. And yet they still fail at any task not in their data.
Put simply; a human needs less than 1 lifetime of training data to be more intelligent than AI. If it hasn’t already solved it, I don’t think throwing more training data/compute at the problem will solve this.
There is no “intelligence”, ai is a pr word. Just a language model that feeds on a lot of data.
Oh yeah we’re 100% agreed on that. I’m thinking of the AI evangelicals who will argue tooth and nail that LLMs have “emergent properties” of intelligence, and that it’s simply an issue of training data/compute power before we’ll get some digital god being. Unfortunately these people exist, and they’re depressingly common. They’ve definitely reduced in numbers since AI hype has died down though.
Humans have the advantage of billions of years of evolution.
“ai” also has the advantage of billions of years of evolution.
We’re very proficient at walking, but somehow haven’t produced a walking home or anything like that.
It’s not very linear.
Definitely not the same thing. Just because you can make use of the end result of major efforts does not somehow magically give you access to all the knowledge from those major efforts.
You can use a smart phone easily, but that doesn’t mean you magically know how to make one.
You’ve had the entire history of evolution to get the instinct you have today.
Nature Vs Nurture is a huge ongoing debate.
Just because it takes longer to train doesn’t mean it’s not intelligent, kids develop slower than chimps.
Also intelligent doesn’t really mean anything, I personally think Intelligence is the ability to distillate unusable amounts of raw data and intuit a result beneficial to one’s self. But very few people agree with me.
I see intelligence as filling areas of concept space within an econiche in a way that proves functional for actions within that space. I think we are discovering more that “nature” has little commitment, and is just optimizing preparedness for expected levels of entropy within the functional eco-niche.
Most people haven’t even started paying attention to distributed systems building shared enactive models, but they are already capable of things that should be considered groundbreaking considering the time and finances of development.
That being said, localized narrow generative models are just building large individual models of predictive process that doesn’t by default actively update information.
People who attack AI for just being prediction machines really need to look into predictive processing, or learn how much we organics just guess and confabulate ontop of vestigial social priors.
But no, corpos are using it so computer bad human good, even though the main issue here is the humans that have unlimited power and are encouraged into bad actions due to flawed social posturing systems and the confabulating of wealth with competency.
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Strange to equate the other senses to performance in intellectual tasks but sure. Do you think feeding data from smells, touch, taste, etc. into an AI along with the video will suddenly make it intelligent? No, it will just make it more likely to guess what something smells like. I think it’s very clear that our current approach to AI is missing something much more fundamental to thought than that, it’s not just a dataset problem.
Humans don’t live that long. That’s only about 1.5 million 30 min videos, which isn’t a huge amount for a whole day’s worth of scraping.
Yeah this is honestly an order of magnitude less that I would’ve thought
Maybe they’re running out
I would be lucky if I get to watch more than 10000 videos in my entire lifetime.
Bro you’re doing it with your eyes, right now!
That’s only about 1.5 million 30 min videos
aka 2 videos from Quinton Reviews
Properly following licensing, right?
No, see, because it’s “learning like a human”, and everybody knows that you’re allowed to bypass any licensing for learning. /s
But seriously I don’t know how they make the jump to these conclusions either.
This is a massive strawman argument. No one is saying you shouldn’t have a license to view the content in order to train an AI on it. Most of the information used to train these models is publicly available and licensed for public viewing.
Just because something is available for public viewing does not mean it’s licensed for anything except personal use.
The strawman here is that since physical people benefit from personal use exceptions in the law, machine learning software should too. But why should they? Since when is a piece of software ran by a corporation equivalent to an individual person?
A tangentially related but good example of this sort of thing is BluRays and community movie nights (like setting up a projector in a park).
Most of these movie nights are de facto illegal, as even though you own the BluRay, it is not licensed for public showings, just for personal use. Obviously no one gives enough of a shit to enforce this against small groups, especially if they aren’t making money off it, but if a theater started offering showings of shit the owner just bought on BluRay or UHD disks, it wouldn’t last too long.
Similar thing here. Just because you can access the content to view it yourself doesn’t mean you have the rights to do more than that with it. As an individual, you’re likely fine to break those rules. As a giant fucking corporation, it’s time for you to pay up.
Copyright licensing allows the owner to control how a work is distributed, not how it’s consumed. “Personal use” just means that you can’t turn around and redistribute a work that you’ve obtained. Not that you’re not allowed to consume it in a corporate setting.
Consuming is not the same thing as training. A machine is not a consumer, it is a tool.
A program of machine can be a consumer of something, although if you want to be technical you could say the person using the machine is the consumer. In actual computer science we talk about programs consuming things all the time.
In actual computer science you talk about AI all the time as well but it’s not actually intelligent is it? It’s just SmarterChild 2.0 and literally has no idea what word it said just before it’s current one. Not intelligent. Words are often used inappropriately. The only thing computers can consume is data and electricity by definition, and consuming data is not the same as implementing it in a language (or visual) model that you intend to profit from. This is data theft, unless properly licensed.
Training literally is consuming. A copyright license doesn’t get to dictate what computer programs the work is allowed to be used with. There’s a ton a entertainment mega corps that would love for that to be the case, though.
You’re saying that you’re not allowed to do a statistical analysis on a copyrighted work. It’s nonsense. It’s well-established that copyright does not prevent that kind of use.
What makes you think copyright law doesn’t apply to companies using copy written data to sell and profit off of? That is not the case. Also, you’re putting words in my mouth. Feel free to read my other replies on this thread but I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I think it’s clear I’m not saying computers aren’t allowed to process data that’s absurd.
Copyright licensing allows the owner to control how a work is distributed, not how it’s consumed.
First of all, that’s incorrect.
Secondly, by default you have zero rights to someone else’s work. If something doesn’t explicitly grant you rights, you have none. If there’s a law or license, and if it’s applicable to you, you get exactly what’s specified in there.
The “personal use” or “fair use” exceptions in some places grant some basic rights but they are very narrow in scope and generally applicable only to individuals.
I mean, it’s in the name. The right to make copies. Not to be glib, but it really is
A copyright is a type of intellectual property that gives its owner the exclusive legal right to copy, distribute, adapt, display, and perform a creative work, usually for a limited time.
You may notice a conspicuous absence of control over how a copied work is used, short of distributing it. You can reencode it, compress it, decompress it, make a word cloud, statistically analyze its tone, anything you want as long as you’re not redistributing the work or an adaptation (which has a pretty limited meaning as well). “Personal use” and “fair use” are stipulations that weaken a copyright owner’s control over the work, not giving them new rights above and beyond copyright. And that’s a great thing. You get to do whatever you want with the things you own.
You don’t have a right to other people’s work. That’s what copyright enables. But that’s beside the point. The owner doesn’t get to say what you use a work for that they’ve distributed to you.
Since when is a piece of software ran by a
corporationperson equivalent to an individual person?Gotta remember that legally a corporation IS a person.
Another great example of how the law is batshit serving capital and destroying the planet.
Information wants to be free.
I mean, i agree, but artists want to eat too.
instead of focusing on their products and improving them for everyone, some shitty ceo is pushing their shitty ai agenda down everyones throat.
Well it sounds like they’re doing something to make their products better, you just disagree that it’s going to be successful.
Nvidia’s biggest product is absolutely AI by a massive landslide, I’m pretty sure I read that the point of them downloading these videos and doing the training is to build a pipeline for their AI users to do the same with their own shit. (Can’t be bothered to double-check cuz I really don’t care)
So they aren’t downloading all this video to make a crazy AI model. They’re downloading all this video to make a tool for their AI customers to use, you may not agree but improving their product is exactly what they’re doing.
So they use VMs to simulate user accounts, in future this will be blocked and whatever new AI startup is there won’t have the option to do so. Competition blocked. Forever.
Can we stop with this bullshit? Nobody will buy into it. WE DON’T WANT IT.
Sorry, I disagree with this kind of generalisation. To be rational, Just because you don’t want it, it doesn’t mean everyone else is on the same ship. I am very sure there are certain people who will benefit from this and want it.
„Certain people” do not justify spending billions in money and tons of resources to create more and more of the same shit just because there is a hype for it.
yes, I am one of those who are also getting bored of it. But this doesn’t mean that I am part of the market that they targeted. They might me targeting certain segments or even service providers such as game developers or console makers etc. The technology is still in it advent stage so it is too early to say wether they are going to fail.
Obligatory fuck AI and the illeterate bros pushing it.
What kind of videos, though? A lot of such material is very far from being proper educational material that we show other people to really teach them much, let alone educate them well enough to be anywhere trustworthy. This is a very processed material, with years of preparation once you consider the prior education of the individuals involved in the creative process - think of the past experiences silently influencing them, their initial knowledge on the subject obtained from somewhat basic facts from school or otherwise, their misconceptions, iterations that nobody knows about, and many other things that we don’t usually directly associate with the act of working on something like a video, but that eventually do dictate a lot of the decisions and opinions put into it.
It’s one thing that the AI has no intelligence in it whatsoever, but the fact that it’s being pumped with information and “knowledge” in basically the reverse order doesn’t help it become any better.
On the other hand, the entire thing is not about making something that works well, but something that sells well. And then there’s people putting too much faith into the thing and trusting it with way too much stuff than they should (which is also the case with a lot of other tech, though, admittedly).
Some things of today are so damn unexciting.
Can relate, I watched the English patient once.
I’ve just had a thought:
There’s a little country where the way its leadership still hasn’t been all voted out and put behind bars for life is that it constantly invents new subjects for discussion. Some outrageous, some showing them in good light, but the point is that everyone forgets the real bad things they’ve done (they are basically a collaborationist puppet government of a neighboring fascist country).
I wonder if it’s today’s world as a whole showing itself in that little country.
I’ve recently read an article seen on Lemmy, suggesting that the “AI” hype is the same. https://theluddite.org/#!post/ai-hype - found it. The conclusion is very important.
They are wasting enormous amounts of energy to make those "AI"s, collect training data and so on, to make oligopolized platforms and industries shittier and shittier.
But we are wasting our energy, which is much more limited, to track myriads of false targets. We are like an air defense system being saturated.
No one has ever won a war by sitting in defense. We must search for critical joints to attack.
Also no, voting for one of two candidates presented to you in some election is not that, neither is arguing for one of two sides in a discourse presented to you. There are better and worse choices there, but that’s not what attack means.
I hope they aren’t on Comcast.
Something like that was a plot point in Black Mirror. In that case it was with consciousnesses.
