When you run OpenSUSE, you can feel it was made by Germans.
The installer is a beautiful example of German engineering.
The package manager is a perfect example of German over-engineering.
If you run it with KDE, you have 2 redundant GUI admin tools for every config in the system, and 4 for setting up printers.Yeah that sounds like a typical BMW engine layout.
It’s amazing how OpenSUSE got my laptop’s valve covers to leak oil.
As the owner of many old German cars this is funny but only because it means no one read the technical manual that came with the car
As the former owner of an E36 and then an E90 I can tell you that the more modern ones still piss oil just as badly. And the consequences can be much worse (read: expensive) to boot.
Hey the BMW engine that had 2 redundant everything was pretty awesome because half the engine could die and it’d keep going as an inline 6. It was 2 of everything. ECU, Distributor, even fuel pumps and rails
Except they seemingly come without the right blinker, but BMW drivers only ever need the left one anyways, and it might as well be stuck in “on”.
German engineering.
I can hear this gif. I guess it’s time to have my colonoscopy.
Thank you for the nostalgia
Sees “Germany”
Die Kommentarspalte dieser Pfostierung befindet sich ab sofort im Besitz der Bundesrepublik Deutschland meine Kameraden!
Ahoi, Genosse! Wie läuft die Germanisierung? Verbreiten Sie erfolgreich das Wort von Linux in Ihrem Heimatland?
(Übersetzung von DeepL)
Ohhh ich spreche auch Wurst. Wie geht es ihnen mein Herr, toetet den fuehrer und benutzt Linux statt Fenster.
Wir sprechen Kraut, bitte sehr.
Ich bevorzuge:
𝕯𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖊 𝕶𝖔𝖒𝖒𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖆𝖗𝖘𝖊𝖐𝖙𝖎𝖔𝖓 𝖎𝖘𝖙 𝖓𝖚𝖓 𝕰𝖎𝖌𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖚𝖒 𝖉𝖊𝖗 𝕭𝖚𝖓𝖉𝖊𝖘𝖗𝖊𝖕𝖚𝖇𝖑𝖎𝖐 𝕯𝖊𝖚𝖙𝖘𝖈𝖍𝖑𝖆𝖓𝖉
Falsches s, 7/10
Nein, das ist nicht gut!
Nixos: everything everywhere all at once
Good for you there wasn’t an “ease of use” or “intuitive” field.
nixOS is for people who love config files
NixOS is for people who have accidentally uninstalled 90% of their system because they didn’t pay attention to what other packages depend on the thing they were uninstalling and were desperately looking for a an undo button.
I’m still a Linux noob all things considered, and I’ve been using NixOS for six months or more.
It is HARD, but I see the true value of it. I will never need to reinstall Linux because I broke it, that’s simply impossible.
If I ever need to migrate my system, it’s all backed up to github. With a single
Bash update.shevery single .config file backed up, system upgraded, all packages updated.
I just love Nix, it’s the perfect OS for me.
Now I just need to learn how to use flakes…
Sidebar: I’ve never asked before, but maybe someone can help me out. If I install a flake of an application, am I supposed to add it to the existing flake, or can I modulate flakes?
I’ve noticed when installing the nixvim flake it generates a new flake and it runs when I issue the
nix run ~/.dotfiles/nixvim/flake.nixcommand, but I don’t want to have to run that command every time. I feel like making a fish abbreviation isn’t the correct way of doing this.
So I’ve only been using nix about a year and only used flakes. I use in two ways.
First, I have my main nix flake. Most everything is controlled from that. It has several outputs from full blown nixos builds per host or some home manager builds for non-nixos systems.
Third-party flakes I use as inputs to my own flake then use the override system to inject them into nixpkgs. Then I just install whatever like normal from nixpkgs. I can either override an existing pkg (neovim nightly replaces regular neovim for me), or you can just add as a new package to nixpkgs by using a different attribute name.
Second way is for projects with their own repo. I’ll add a project flake that has a devshell with direnv so as soon as I enter that directory it sets up a sort of virtual environment just for that project. You can add outputs to it so others can use as a third-party flake.
My main starting point was https://github.com/Misterio77/nix-config for this design.
NixOS is from Max Verstappen country not Sebastian Vettel country
you don’t even need to know where, you don’t even need to know when. that’s how every it gets
Terminal, Terminal, Terminal, German Terminal
Germinal?
Console, Console, Console, Konsole
ITT - “I DISAGREE WITH THE FACTUAL ACCURACY OF THE SETUP AND/OR PUNCHLINE OF YOUR JOKE.”
What else do you expect from germans? Ich bin stolz auf euch, jungs.
I think I’ve put fedora on at least 4 personal systems and it has never caused an issue. It’s so smooth it’s boring in the best way. Switched to it for daily computing about 4 years ago. I use a minipc as a media server with Arch and turning it on it’s exciting. Just this fucking morning the default configuration decided that my main audio device was a microphone. Lovely. So flexible.
I eventually landed on Fedora too. Its level of “it just works” is amazing.
Right!? Almost everything I need is one dnf command away with minimal setup on my part.
I mean, I’m on Debian and I’m on the same install instance I’ve had for almost four years now. I’m constantly reading about how some of you people keep hosing your other distros with a normal update…
Four years? Some rookie numbers you got there.
Maybe they mean four year uptime…
Some of us were riding Windows 7 into the ground, specifically when Steam stopped supporting it.
- Recent Ubuntu convert, even more recent Debian convert
Real. Though sometimes running a recent version of something is a real challenge, unless it ships in appimage. If it’s a small program you can usually backport the package from unstable or just build it yourself, but if it depends on some rust or js libraries or whathaveyou you have to do so much crap you might as well just be running trixie
Couldn’t Distrobox get you through that?
Sure, but honestly I hate the idea of having different runtimes. That’s the reason why I like neither snaps nor flatpaks.
Lol, I ran 5 years on arch without a break.
Now 6 months of Bazzite without a break.
I think the age of distros shipping severely broken updated is over. And it was always, ALWAYS grub that broke after an update on mint and opensuse 10 years ago for me.
I’m hitting 4 on a rolling release
Fedora 41 is now the ‘wait 45 seconds every boot because you don’t have a tpm chip’ version.
Can i get some context please? My fedora install wasn’t using TPM, i had to manually configure it; i haven’t noticed any difference in boot speed with or without TPM encryption
Why wouldn’t you just use a password?
I want to have data-at-rest encryption, so that the only password i need to insert is my user one, this allows me to not have to type passwords multiple times. If i had the regular encryption password i would have to enable autologin in SDDM, which would do away with the encryption on kdewallet and all my credentials.
Plus i also enable secureboot, and use fedora kinoite, so that i is hard to tamper with my boot stuff without my TPM wiping itself off my encryption password, this gives me a very Bitlocker-like setup, but without the shittiness of having my encryption keys linked to microsoft’s terrible encryption system and user accounts, i can actually control my stuff like this. For a laptop, i must say data-at-rest encryption is a must!
This setup gives me multiple security layers; took my laptop off me -> booted my laptop, faced with user password -> tried to boot another OS, TPM wiped itself, no more encryption key -> computer now asks for encryption password, has to find a way around LVM2 encryption -> LVM2 encryption (somehow) defeated they must now crack my user password, or have to (try) to decrypt my credentials on the file system itself; after all these convoluted and extremely hard steps i think we can agree this person really deserves to have access to my cool wallpapers
Secure boot and TPM aren’t known for there robust security. In fact, I’d wager that your machine is probably vulnerable.
Or for that matter, it is possible that your secure boot keys have been leaked or that your TPM is vulnerable to sniffing.
Yeah, i know; EUFI computers really suck, turning away the script kiddies and most people that would steal this computer from my data is is the most i can with this thing
Probably only affects a small number of AMD machines.
so if it probably affects only a small number of specific hw platforms, you cannot state fedora as “now wait 40 seconds” distro.
i’m also not using the tmd chip, no issues.
What’s wrong with your Fedora installation? Mine doesn’t do that (also without a TPM chip)
Seems to be specific to some AMD models. I’m running it on a ~ten year old Asus. Timeout waiting for tpm as seen in someone else’s post at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/much-longer-boot-time-after-updating-to-fedora-41/132603/15
Problem only occurred after upgrading from 40 to 41 - can be seen by pressing Esc while it’s booting.
Fedora shouldn’t be touching the TPM at all
that’s annoying. my laptop has TPM and i also encrypted the disk
The four fundamental Ys
Flexibility translates to unpredictable.
I’ve never had any issues with my Arch install being unpredictable. It has always worked exactly as I expected it to, even though I update it every couple of days.
It has always worked exactly as I expected it to
Just expect it to break, then it will behave as expected taps head
Well I set up automated timeshift on btrfs, so maybe that’s why it’s playing nice.
I’ve been using Arch since 2014. If I could be arsed, I could write you a looooooooong list of regressions I’ve had to deal with over the years. For an experienced Linux user, they’re usually fairly easy to deal with, but saying you never have to deal with anything is just a lie.
My experience with Arch is basically: it’s all very predictable until it isn’t and you suddenly find yourself troubleshooting something random like unexplainable bluetooth disconnects caused by a firmware or kernel update.
What you’ve said is true, though it’s a bit of a trade-off – over the years I’ve wasted so many hours with those “user friendly” distros because I need a newer version of a dependency, or I need to install something that isn’t in the repos. Worst case I have to figure out how to compile it myself.
It’s very rare to find something that isn’t in the Arch official repos or the AUR. Personally I’ve found that being on the bleeding edge tends to save me time in the long run, as there’s almost no barriers to getting the packages that I need.
What you’ve said is true, though it’s a bit of a trade-off
Yes, and that’s why after more than 10 years I still use Arch. I like having the latest version of things and I’m confident enough in my abilities that I know that if something breaks I can always either find a fix, or at least identify the offending package, hold it back, report the bug and wait for the issue to be resolved.
There are times where it can be trying though. The first plasma 6 releases for example were rough. More recently, I’ve also been having issues with 6.11 and 6.12 kernels and my ax200 wifi that I only recently found a fix to. My wifi would freeze whenever I started streaming video from the PC to my TV, but only in kernels after 6.11. Turning off TCP segmentation offloading with ethtool resolved it (
ethtool -K wlan0 tso off). You don’t want to know how long I had been pulling my hair out at that issue until I found the fix.
Did you consider that the problems you have might not be problems that other people experience? I very highly doubt our two systems are at all similar. Your experience is just that, yours, and so you don’t have any right to be arbitor over whether or not I’m lying.
That’s such a cop-out answer and totally missing the point. I’ve run Arch on 4 different systems, and yes I had different issues on each and sometimes issues that hit across the board.
At the end of the day, whether or not this was just my personal experience doesn’t matter. What matters is that the issues were always caused by what Arch is: a unstable rolling release distro that pushes out the latest version of upstream packages, bugs and all. Sooner or later some will hit you, telling yourself and other people otherwise is deluding yourself and those people.
Yeah, and sooner or later, I’ll die of old age, or cancer, or an accident, or get audited on my taxes.
None of those things have happened yet either. Not only that, but the same is true for every operating system that has ever existed, or will ever exist, including every distro of Linux.
Here’s the thing: your answer is both invalidating and ignorant, and it shows a lack of understanding of what differentiates Arch from a stable distro.
- My wifi, that had been working fine since I installed this computer in 2020, broke in kernel 6.11 and 6.12 because Arch pushed those updates.
- Early plasma 6.0 releases were rough as balls for months, because Arch pushed those updates.
- My bluetooth, that had been working since I installed this computer in 2020, started to randomly disconnect sometime last year due to buggy firmware updates because Arch pushed those updates.
- Hell even plain old intel ethernet on my old system from 2014 suddenly started hanging up under load a year or two ago (never found the cause, did find a workaround).
None of these issues were a fault of my own, all I did was
pacman -Syu, and none of this would happen on a stable distro. I’m not saying Arch is shit because of this, I’m saying: beware of what you are getting into when you choose Arch: for every single package on your system, you are effectively at the mercy of whatever “upstream” decides to shit out that week. Being delusional about that fact and having guys come crawling out of the woodworks everytime this is mentioned, saying platitudes like: “I nEvEr HaD aN iSsUe” doesn’t help anyone.Yeah, neither does “eVeRyOnE wIlL hAvE pRoBlEmS”. Kinda a stupid thing to say, all things considered.
imagine if you update it after 2 weeks. Arch is okay, if you keep backups. otherwise, you are basically playing a russian roulette
I don’t like waiting that long, because sitting for an hour while it recompiles everything that updated is annoying. I like the daily or so updates that only take a couple minutes.
Do you use your computer for things that rely on specific library versions and functionality?
What? I love Arch, it’s so god damn stable and fast.
absolutely not. look at nixos.
Once i get another machine to dick around on ill try installing arch.
Just use kvm/qemu and install it. When I want to play with detailed setups I install slackware and start configuring/compiling.
yeah i could do that. When i installed it i had a problem booting logging in, it wouldn’t goto the DE.
i started learning about linux 4 months ago. Installed Arch with archinstall pretty easily to a VM, it booted up no problem. But you have to manually install the desktop, if you want a gui (who doesn’t lol). But there are many desktops for Arch, the most common ones have pretty good documentation. But if i were you, i’d experiment with some more niche desktop emviroments
No need to manually install desktop environments, archinstall also does that (Profile --> Desktop).
i didn’t have that option in Archinstall
You did, probably just didn’t see it ;) It’s been part of it for years, since around 2020 according to GitHub. But to be fair, calling the option “Profile” might not be very intuitive for some people, so it’s easy to miss.
i checked every option. maybe it was an old version or a modified one
I haved used many distros and DEs. my favorites are keyboard driven like i3 and such. For now i use fedora because i needed something to work out of the box. I would like to stay in the terminal.
i tried lxqt and gnome. those were disappointments. And i used kde and cinnamon too, those are good
Nice i like lxqt but dont use it currently
OpenSUSE is the “all of the above” of Linux distros
It is? I had tumbleweed installed and switched to fedora after only a few weeks because it kept freezing.
Weird. I promptly tried Fedora and switched to Tumbleweed after Fedora kept crashing soon after startup. Hardware configuration probably affects the outcome a lot.
The only fair comparison of Linux distros is always on devices of Linux vendors as they both pick the right hardware as well as merge Kernel patches if necessary.
I do however concur that OpenSuse offers basically everything. Except for intuitive system settings - but at least they’re all there, you never really have to use the CLI. Other than with others who will eventually lack something. Also the bootable btrfs snapshots by default are a dream for common users.
oh my girlfriend’s laptop also just keeps freezing with opensuse. do you have an nvidia card by any chance?
nvidia card by any chance?
I think random freezing is one of the symptoms of installing it with Ventoy. Ventoy mucks up one of the installer flags or something like that, so even the wiki indicates it’s not supported. (Neither is installing it from the Live tester, if I’m not mistaken.)
Correct! Ventoy adds boot parameters on its own, screwing up some fundamental settings (sth. that can happen on any distro that isn’t making the user configure everything by hand). It’s also a questionable piece of software on its own given the binary blob it adds to every stick… do not use it.
oh well, i guess it must be a different problem on my gf’s laptop since we used dd to put the iso in a pen drive
That’s what I expect when it gets labelled as Germany
Somehow, I feel called out.
Fedora is security? I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love it, it’s my daily driver after trying just about every distro under the sun, but I would’ve figured something like Qubes would stand head and shoulders above it.
i would say fedora is the “security distro for every day people” kind of distro
Qubes is specialised, whereas Fedora is a general purpose distro with a security focus.
Fedora doesn’t have any more of a security focus than anything else in the industry
It has SELinux, what does ubuntu (for example) has?
Apparmor
AppArmor is great but it isn’t nearly as powerful as SELinux. Way more user friendly though.
It can be but it takes a lot more effort.
SELinux: high bar to entry but extremely power right away
Apparmor: lower bar to entry but much harder to get advanced functionality and control
Yea, but there are also some things AppArmor just can’t do. Although in my experience most aren’t as big of a deal. Things like saying “only processes of this type can bind to port X” for example and much more fine grained control of file or directory actions. Does AppArmor provide kernel module controls?
They both have really bad documentation though :(
One of the few with SELinux by default
Outside of everything else that has MAC enabled by default. It doesn’t even ship with a Firewall.
Fedora has firewalld by default but in the desktop version all ports are open by default. Pretty sure the server version only has ssh and cockpit exposed by default
in the desktop version all ports are open by default
( ͝סּ ͜ʖ͡סּ)
I haven’t looked around that much in years beyond NixOS, what else has MAC by default these days? I remember a lot of the Debian based ones having some things constrained by AppArmor, but I personally prefer SELinux and it wasn’t everything.
I don’t know if it ships with a firewall, but that’s definitely easier than an ad hoc SELinux setup. I always just transfer my iptables (nftables now) rules over.
As a Fedora user, I thought Debian would be more secure.
Maybe Fedora Atomic?
I mean, image based (immutable) distros are quite a bit more secure than regular ones, and Fedora Atomic (Silverblue, Bazzite, etc.) is pretty much the only great choice when it comes to those kind of operating systems.
Don’t forget SUSE’s focus on SAP… Which is also Germany I guess
Its Germany’s version of oracle. A strategic reserve of evil.
Qubes is the actuall security distro tho.
How slow is qubes? I imagine that virtualising everything is slow. Does it have a containerised mode?
As slow as you expect, at least on anything that requires gpu such as watching videos
For heigh gpu tasks u can passthrough the gpu itself. So inference gaming etc it has same capability as any other os.
It’s decent as long as you have adequate numbers of cpu cores and memory for the apps/VMs you run
It really isnt that slow virtualization overhead is pretty minimal nowdays.
Qubes is specialised, though. The four distros above are general purpose with a focus.
That seems pretty arbitrary
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
