I love when people on the Internet say “X did Y quietly” to make it more suspenseful. This doesn’t look quiet to me…
What does “quietly” even mean? Didn’t take out ads in Times Square?
Also how is this bad?
Not bad, just ironic
Great! Then now you’re ready to install Microsoft Edge on your fresh new linux installation: https://packages.microsoft.com/repos/edge/pool/main/m/microsoft-edge-stable/ 🤡
It comes with bing search pre configured for you so you don’t have to look for the settings, we also hid them so you don’t accidentally switch to duckduckgo because we believe Linux users shall experience the full potential of our services even out abroad on another OS
For all two people who genuinely use edge on Linux, it’s still a more private experience than Windows. Regardless, more power to them
Microsoft must make 40% of their revenue off of Azure at this point. I would not be surprised if more than 50% of that is on Linux. Windows is probably down to 10% ( around the same as gaming ).
https://www.kamilfranek.com/microsoft-revenue-breakdown/
Sure there are people in the Windows division who want to kill Linux and some dev dev folks will still prefer Windows. At this point though, a huge chunk of Microsoft could not care less about Windows and may actually prefer Linux. Linux is certainly a better place for K8S and OCI stuff. All the GPT and Cognitive Services stuff is likely more Linux than not.
Do people not know that Microsoft has their own Linux distro? I mean an installation guide is not exactly their biggest move in Linux?
Do people not know that Microsoft has their own Linux distro?
MS has been at Linux expos since 2004! They started working on SUSE in friggin 2006! I truly don’t get the amount of bile and ignorance the Lemmy community has towards them, it’s like half these folks are still on 2001-era slashdot, talking about FUD and Micro$oft.
Yeah, Microsoft has been a shit company making mediocre products its whole lifetime, but the amount of unhinged hatred here does not in any way match the present-day company’s actions.
Microsoft contributes to Linux and other open source projects in many ways, including financially. The cynical among us believe it’s for the same reason Google contributes to Mozilla. Legally it’s harder to prove you’re an evil monopoly if you financially support your competition. Microsoft’s involvement in Linux only became noteworthy after their 2001 Antitrust suit.
The hatred literally stems purely from Windows 10 and 11.
They are products engineered so expertly to frustrate you in such a distasteful way it’s downright offensive to anyone who has used any other operating system. It’s genuinely a marvel of human engineering.
I got radicalized by Slashdot. But I don’t regret it.
Great source, but it also shows they make 23% off office. Together with Windows, that’s over 30% of their revenue.
Office doesn’t work on Linux, so it really doesn’t make financial sense to push Linux
Also, if you spend any amount of time around the Linux Kernel Mailing List, there’s no shortage of microsoft.com email addresses involved and contributing here and there.
Windows: What is my purpose?
User: You are a bootloader to install Linux.
Grub
Thought that was what PXE boot was for
Oh my Bill
Oh my god
“An expensive bootloader at that, but hey you already paid us when you bought your laptop thanks to our decades-old grip on the market, so we could not care less what you do next”
why not? it’s not like there is any competition.
Microsoft is making more money off Linux with Azure than several red hats combined.Yes, but people find this interesting because historically, Microsoft was actively trying to destroy Linux (look up Halloween documents) and even said that Linux is cancer.
WSL has been integrated into Windows for a while now. The days you’re referring to are in the past.
A lot changed after Satya Nadella took the helm. The modern .NET platform is really quite nice, and MS does a lot of
FOSSopen source work.Obviously it’s good to be sceptical, they’re a large corporation and all they want is money, they’re not our friends. They’re just not as draconian as they were in the 90s and the 00s.
If only they stop overwriting boot loader.
Install linux second and create a second boot partition. most distros will probe foreign os and add a grub chainloader entry from grub to windows boot partition. windows never lnows about the other boot partition
While I see an extensive amount of “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” and do agree that this is the typical logic of Microsoft.
It’s obvious this is to try and avoid getting hit with similar monopoly accusations that their competitors are receiving.
“Look, Look!! We support other Operating Systems! We have a guide! We’re not a monopoly! See, See!!”
This has way more to do with Azure is their main product and they know what people want to run on the cloud runs on Linux workloads. They’ve seen their Kuberbetes numbers, they know where the money is
There’s definitely an element of that, but imo their recent embrace of WSL and linux tooling for development is just to try and expand their market share in the software development space. Very few devs develop on windows unless they’re game devs, C# devs or working on something else that requires windows/Microsoft tooling, everyone else is on Linux and macOS because windows is bad for developing software.
It’s basically an admission that their tooling is bad, but it’s fine because you can just run linux development tools on windows now, so please don’t switch to Linux fully
Your assertions are not supported by industry analysis.
While this years survey is closed, the results haven’t been published. In last year’s survey, MacOS slightly edged out Linux, moving to second place.
Well yeah, 3% isn’t a threat to their PC market share.
Does this mean that windows updates will no longer bork Linux?
Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is still the name of the game.
It’s a problem if big corp doesn’t support linux. It’s a problem if big corp supports linux.
I obviously wasn’t speaking in generalities about big corporation, so put away the straw-man argument. This specific corporation, Microsoft, has a long history of using “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish” to stifle competition. Denying or trivializing that concern is at best naive, but more likely just a little bad faith rhetorical trolling.
=> Big corps are the problem
Big Corps aren’t the issue (or well they are but not because they’re big corps), they only become an issue when a regular tool in their playbook is Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. See Facebook, XMPP and the effect that hostile takeover had on their recent plans to create a Fediverse platform. I agree that the Microsoft hate is overblown and unhealthy but to pretend that Microsoft engaging more in Linux is something to be enjoyed without worry is equally a bad idea. There is no guarantee they’ll try to shoehorn their own bad ideas into Linux and quite frankly I think Linux is too big for them to manage that but it is a concern nonetheless.
Still at least with Linux there are plenty of other giants who have a vested interest in making sure the status quo is upheld with no single company having a monopolistic influence on the development so I don’t think there’s any reason to worry about the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish playbook working here at all.
I’m holding out hope (i.e. pure fantasy) that the Embrace, Extend, Extinguish playbook backfires so that Microsoft becomes just another corporation supporting what is basically another Linux distribution, called Windows, and contributing upstream. I suppose it would have to be more like what Apple did with BSD. I feel like they’d still be very able to profit this way and everyone would play together a little better. If there was enough basic and built-in on-by-default interoperability between Windows and things like ssh, NFS, filesystems, etc., many people may never bother uninstalling windows from pre-built devices like laptops that come bundled with it now.
Doubt it
It wasn’t published September 29th, it was updated then.
It was published back in March. All these pages are on github where this can be verified: https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/linux/commits/main/docs/install.md
The thing is, I don’t think a guide is really needed to install Linux. Most of it is pretty straight-forward. (The only tricky bit that comes to mind is making the USB that you’ve put your distro on bootable. That probably isn’t obvious; and it might not be obvious how to get your computer to boot from a USB anyway if you’ve never done it before.)
Anyway, the way I see it, Microsoft’s guide is more about how you can use Linux while still having Windows. If someone is searching for “how do I install Linux?” Microsoft would obviously prefer the answer to involve something that preserves Windows. First preference: WSL, second preference: Virtual Machine, third preference: dual-boot. And after that, you’re on your own.
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I prefer having Windows safely tucked away on a virtual machine where it can’t hurt anything.
You know that could be interpreted as a challenge.
I personally haven’t seen windows do that in many many years (last time I saw it happen was with windows XP, though I haven’t ran dual-boot system with every windows since then, just some).
In my dual-Linux setup though, one keeps trying to get over the other in every minor update.
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I wouldn’t count on it… From Microsoft’s point of view, dual booting works as long as you install Windows first - which probably suits them just fine.
Doubt it
You have to install Windows first, then your Linux distro.
Doing that has solved all my problems with Windows being a douche
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And after trying Linux inside windows and then inside a VM and realising it runs like shit, they’ll be convinced windows is better, but they’ve been deceived.
The thing is, I don’t think a guide is really needed to install Linux. Most of it is pretty straight-forward. (The only tricky bit that comes to mind is making the USB that you’ve put your distro on bootable. That probably isn’t obvious; and it might not be obvious how to get your computer to boot from a USB anyway if you’ve never done it before.)
It’s been awhile since I installed a Linux distro…Have some of them improved guidance related to allocating disk space on install? I remember that was one of the parts that I wasn’t entirely confident I’d handled properly the last few times I did so. Something something swap, something /, and the like.
I did a Mint install a few weeks ago, and I’d say that if you want to preserve some existing OS (i.e. dual boot), then it isn’t super easy. You have to tell it what new partitions you want - and therefore you have to know something about what partitions you should have. The good news is that you don’t actually need any swap or home partition. You can just put it all on one partition - but I don’t think it’s obvious what to do.
On the other hand, if you aren’t trying to preserve something you already have, you can tell the installer to just go with all the defaults, and then you don’t have to know anything about it.
Note: Microsoft’s guide doesn’t mention any of that detail. It basically just says to follow the instructions of the installer.
Ou can dual-boot with the default options, but iirc if you want to choose how much of your Windows partition you want to use you have to do it manually. Haven’t done it in ages though so I could be wrong
You’re so right! I feel like I always need to try two programs and I am never doing it often enough to actually remember which works.
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In exchange, FF uses Google search by default. So they’re also getting direct value from the deal.
The performance speed between WSL, virtual machines, and bare metal Linux has become so close that few developers choose this method due to the overhead of needing to restart (reboot) your device any time you want to switch between the operating systems.
And there’s the attempt at discouraging you from going bare-metal.
I doubt that “few developers choose this” is true.
Windows does run bad in virtual machine, but in linux with zen and qemu
I’ve heard talks that after each Windows update, you have to restore Grub config.
Not the case with me. Had dual boot for some time and never had to fix it… 🤷
I think people misspeak, windows puts the windows bootloader first after some updates
Is this a new issue? I have never experienced this before either
I’ve heard rumors or memes about it. Never had to fix grub after Windows update. Maybe it’s the thing of the past and Microsoft simply fixed this behavior.
But when last time i fixed grub - it was when I renamed disks in Windows, which are actually BTRFS Linux partitions, mounted in Windows using WinBTRFS driver. It somehow changed UUIDs in Linux. This is unrelated, but still wanted to tell 😅
This happens to me all the time, any fixes?
I think it’s because I have Windows and Linux on separate drives.
What Windows version and edition are you using? Also, your GRUB is installed in BIOS or EFI mode?
I am on Win11 professional edition I think, EFI mode…
I’ve had it happen a few times over the years. It probably depends on your drive configuration and it doesn’t happen with every update. But the last time was one too many for me and I kicked windows off my main system.
