How DARE the UN Secretary General express the blindingly obvious truth?! The nerve! 🤦
This clearly shows the power of Israel regarding having a public opinion that goes against their book… no one dare speak ill of Israel government narrative
The UN Chief resigning as a result would be a show of power. Calling for it and not getting is a show of weakness.
Israel doesn’t give a shit. They have most of the west oligarchy fellating them, “donating” billions of dollars in “aid” and weapons, and approving of their entire history of human rights abuses and genocide of Palestine.
I read that they put the names, pictures, and personal info of the Harvard students that spoke out on ad trucks and drove them around the Harvard campus.
The lengths to which they’re going to suppress dissent are getting pretty scary. I would not be at all surprised if threats have been made through back channels.
Israel is a fascist terrorist state
https://canarymission.org/students
Its psychotic. And then they have the balls to mix actual anti-semites in next to people who just don’t think we should fund a government that kills thousands of civilians with impunity
I looked at their twitter and their latest tweet was a quote tweet boosting an account widely known as an anti-lgbt hate group. They’re absolutely disgusting.
Ironically that was done by a company called “Accuracy In Media.” If you go to their site aim.org you can see the truck for yourself. It had giant LED screens on both sides playing a sideshow of doxxing students.
Apparently they did the same thing at Columbia University today.
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Mostly when governments are obviously responsible for a war, it’s not controversial to state that truth. The Israeli government isn’t special in the way you seem to think it is.
Stay with the facts please. He did not talk about responsibilities at all, only said the attack did not happen in a vacuum. Everyone bending the actual facts to fit their preferred narrative the way you do, is most counterproductive in any discussion.
The speech was very balanced and fair. The problem to the israeli government is that it did not throw all of the blame on palestinians or hamas, and therefore they took offence.
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I really believe that this effect is waning, at least with younger people.
That awkward moment when the genocidal occupying force can’t handle literal facts.
Context is anti semitic
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No, equating all Jewish people with the oppressive apartheid state Israel
Where did he say (or equate) all Jewish people?
The remarks by the Secretary General were about the actions of the Israeli government and not about Jewish people in general.
Antisemitism is bigotry against all Jewish people because they’re Jewish, not valid criticism of a government because it has committed countless atrocities for many decades.
Yes? But also why type that as a response here, now? Screams whataboutism even if that wasn’t the intention.
Claiming that all criticism of Israeli government is antisemitic (which is what the one I responded to seemed to be doing) amounts to declare that government representative of all Jews, which is itself antisemitic.
So unless I misunderstood his meaning, I stand by my original reply.
Context is anti semitic
It’s sarcasm the way I’m reading it, i.e. he is saying the the UN chief is providing context and that is being deemed as antisemitic, which it’s not.
The Israeli ambassador is conflating the state with the entire set of Jewish people, which as you said is itself antisemitic
I think you’re both on the same page
Oh! Guess I’m the idiot with a malfunctioning sarcasm detector then! My bad!
(That wasn’t sarcasm btw, in case there’s any doubt)
Looks like you fell victim to Poe’s law
The person you replied to was being sarcastic, but that is what Israel is claiming and always has.
From the article: “There is no justification or point in talking to those who show compassion for the most terrible atrocities committed against the citizens of Israel and the Jewish people,” he added on the social media platform.
Your leap “[…] amounts to declare that government representative of all Jews” is large enough to qualify for a world record of some form. How in Earth’s name did you reach that conclusion? If I imply that criticizing the King of England is hateful against Englishmen am I really then implying that every Englishman loves the King? Even his detractors?
I can’t at all follow your logic. The poster is mocking Israel for the habit of supporters of the Israeli government of accusing any non-Jew criticizing them of antisemitism.
If I imply that criticizing the King of England is hateful against Englishmen am I really then implying that every Englishman loves the King?
No, but you ARE falsely conflating criticism of (the actions of) a person with bigotry towards a people. Those things are in no way the same.
Even worse in the case of Israel, where being Jewish isn’t a nationality but an ethnicity and a religion with many of the people belonging to both or either being in fierce opposition to the atrocities of the Israeli government.
Looks like stating simple facts it not acceptable any more …
Oh, no, it’s not that, at all. It’s just a good media manipulation tactic. The Israeli ambassador pitches a fit and calls for his resignation, then the news cycle turns to the spat over whether Guterres should resign, and we forget about the truths he spoke. Truths which are unflattering and inconvenient for Israel. Mission accomplished.
When the Jewish peace groups sat in for a ceasefire in Washington, spokespeople for the ADL in effect denied their status as Jews and said antizionism is the same as antisemitism.
You can’t enforce ethnic land claims without perpetual suppression of undesirables, and the completely predictable effects that will cause.
TBF, zionists resent even orthodox american Jews for having rejected the initial call on ideological grounds.
You can see it in modern discourse where American Jews that support Palestine are dismissed out of hand by Israelis and zionists as “just being stupid Americans”
Yeah there’s always been this stuff but it just seems to have made it’s way in to the official statements a lot more this time around, like there isn’t that awareness of how most people perceive it that’s been keeping things less weird in the past. I could see past responses to this being something like “Jews have differing opinions on the subject of Zionism but we all agree that protecting Jewish lives and securing a safe homeland for Jews is important.” Now what used to be the extreme response is the mainstreamed one.
It’s odd how often anti-zionism is equated with anti-Semitism. Zionism is the opposite of tolerance, and anti-Semitism is intolerance.
People seem to forget the Nazis were Zionists. They sent some of the Jewish population to Palestine. They also had plans of creating a Jewish state in Madagascar.
German had lost the ability to do either late in the war, when they took there hate to it final destination. People are right to be worried about what a state does to an oppressed class of people. Especially when said state wants those people gone and there is nowhere for them to go.
They also had plans of creating a Jewish state in Madagascar.
German had lost the ability to do either late in the war, when they took there hate to it final destination. People are right to be worried about what a state does to an oppressed class of people. Especially when said state wants those people gone and there is nowhere for them to go.
This bullshit. Hi bullshit, been a while - you still stink like you always did.
It’d be nice if you explained why it’s bullshit. Germany did plan to send the Jews to Madagascar there for a bit - so they could live in a german police state isolated on an island that might not have the resources to support all of them. People would die, Germany didn’t care, emigration was forced, and it certainly wasn’t meant to be the foundation of a Zionist state. It’d be a concentration camp on an island.
Exactly, concentration camp. Not some idyllic destination that the other bullshit artist is trying to sell.
Yeah, sorry I wasn’t trying to correct you. I skimmed the article first, and I missed the key point (concentration camp, not Zionist state). Figured I’d save some else the trouble.
The numbers never added up. You know, this is why I linked to a cited comment. The Nazis never planned for Jews to settle in Madagascar - it was just never a realistic or rational choice.
Oh yes, of course the Nazis. Historically recognized for their realistic, rational and congruent way of thinking.
/s
Looks like that comment is an accurate representation of the wikipedia page you shared so I fail to see where the bullshit is alleged to be.
Zionism is about an independent Jewish state, not a German police-state/penal colony. To say Nazi Germany was Zionist shows a lack of understanding of either the Nazis, Zionism or both.
It looks like the comment I’m responding to is imprecise and only directly quoting the accuracies rather than the inaccuracies. Basically the Nazis and Zionist Congress overlapped on the territories explored to be a “home” for the Jews, with obviously different intentions. So the inaccuracy here would be the conflation of the two on ideological grounds, but not necessarily on the logistical matters.
Where the conflation may not apply, is from the turn of the century to the rise of the Third Reich, did anti-Semites support the idea of Jews relocating elsewhere by their own volition, since (in their minds) it would have been a mutually beneficial arrangement? Debatably none of the major powers were friendly towards Jews (Bolsheviks at least disavowed antisemitism in an official capacity) at the time, hence a motivating factor for why the WZO was created.
It’s only accurate if you ignore the reporting by Poland.
Was that the conference that happened on September 10th, 2001?
Yeah well Israel was offended by the UN sending out an untargeted reminder that the Geneva conventions exist.
Let them seethe and cope.
So I guess we make policy choices via temper tantrum nowadays.
It’s the
AmericanIresali wayOh sweet lysdexia.
More than 5,700 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli airstrikes since the war began, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza, the New York Times reported.
I would take this number always with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that this ministry is run by the Hamas and that it immediately made Israel responsible for the shelling of the Hospital parking lot and put up a very high number of casualties for that said parking lot.
Otherweise Israel’s ambassador is acting quite childish in my oppinion and it surely does not help Israel at all to behave in such a way at the U.N. I also have no answer on how to deal with those terrorists of the Hamas, but casually accepting civilian casualites without much precision is definitely not the right thing to do…
And of course nothing that is happening there in the middle east is happening in a vacuum. Neither Israel or the people of Palestine lived in peace in the last decades.
Even if you halve that number, it still more than 2,500 people so far.
It’s appropriate to call Hamas terrorists and monsters.
It’s also appropriate to call the Israeli response extremely excessive- and appropriate to point out that the powers that are created this mess specifically to gain/keep power in Israel.
Both things can be true.
It’s also worth pointing out, that if you figure for every civilian killed, they’re making another Hamas soldier? Or whatever it is that comes after Hamas?
EDIT: NPR hourly newsupdate quoted seven thousand now. Granted that’s probably from the Ministry of Health and suspect… (it was a 30 second blurb while I was driving home.)
It’s probably officially more than died in the last gaza invasion, and it’s only going to get worse.
It’s also appropriate to call the Israeli response extremely excessive- and appropriate to point out that the powers that are created this mess specifically to gain/keep power in Israel. Both things can be true.
I absolute agree!
It’s also reasonable to assume that given any number you choose to accept of Palestinian casualties. Statistically speaking, its highly probable that at least half of them have been under 16 years of age, children.
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People keep bringing up the parking lot incident as if admitting that there isn’t definitive proof it wasn’t Israel is the same thing as proof that is was Hamas, and errors in reporting mean nothing reported is credible. Building your propaganda model on split hairs is back-firing badly for you. Humanistic Judaism can not be constrained by the straight-jacket of colonial Zionism.
The Undisputed Facts in Gaza Are Enough by Eric Levitz
The case for a ceasefire in Gaza does not rest on Israel’s culpability for any single air strike. The undisputed facts are more than enough to indicate that Israel’s campaign against Hamas has featured a callous disregard for civilian suffering. We don’t need to rely on Hamas to know that Israel has cut off food, fuel, electricity, and water to much of Gaza’s population. Israel’s own government has told us that. Similarly, data from the Gaza Health Ministry is not our only indication that there have been massive civilian casualties in Gaza. The U.N. tells us that Gaza is running out of body bags, while photos published by the IDF portray the large-scale decimation of civilian infrastructure.
Indeed.
And even beyond respecting human rights and international law, I would also like to add the following.
Israel and Biden are showing a total lack of consideration for the hostages or for foreign nationals stuck in Gaza.
In fact, they are giving priority to opportunistic and illegal land grabs in the West Bank above all else.
The West should put way more pressure on Israel to stop the war crimes they are committing right now, and to put more effort in securing the release and safety of our own citizens.
Fact is, that hospital disaster wouldn’t have happened if Hamas hadn’t slaughtered 1500 people in their homes.
Fact is, Hamas slaughering 1400 people wouldn’t have happened if Israel hadn’t oppress the Palestine people for more than 50 years. That is what UN chief is saying, because they’ve been calling out Israel bs for a long time. Israel have the power themselves to stop the cycle of hate, but they didn’t, instead they intensified it.
This is also true. It’s possible to hold more than two thoughts in your head.
Israel’s response is not a force of nature.
No, I agree. I just mean that Hamas wanted to sow chaos and destruction by doing what they did, and well, that’s what they got. It’s still unclear who fired that rocket, whether it was a misfire or whatever, but if Hamas hadn’t attacked, there would be no israeli ground offensive, half of Gaza wouldn’t have been ordered to evactuate, and a lot of innocents would still be alive today.
…And Hamas wouldn’t have wanted to sow chaos and destruction if Israel had been negotiating in good faith since 1967. But they haven’t. So here we are.
Hamas is an entity of Israel’s creation, and was funded by Israel to remove support from other, less militant Palestinian organizations.
Zionists argue all the way back to several hundreds years B.C. Not that you can always draw an exactly straight line here, but the point should be that no reaction is inevitable, but that we have organized governments here making these decisions every day.
Well, shit, then argue back before that. What of the Babylonians and the Assyrians that the Israelites genocided? What of their ancestors? Shouldn’t they have their land returned to them?
Every time there’s been a viable two-state solution presented, Hamas or whoever was the palestinian authroity at the time rejected the proposal because they want all of Israel. That isn’t happening. Israel has agreed to a two state solution multiple times! The representatives of palestine never have. If they had, this situation would’ve stabilized decades ago.
Israel has agreed to a two state solution multiple times!
Certainly not in 1995, or in 2014. They’ve also went back on their own ceasefires with Hamas in 2008 and 2012.
Are you making a justification for a hospital bombing?
How in the fuck did you get that from my comment?
Confirming your complete lack of irony.
What’s ironic here? Sorry, I really do have a problem recognizing irony.
While the hospital disaster wouldn’t have happened if not for the attack, the attack also wouldn’t have happened if not for the blockades, terrorization of Palestinians, demolition of houses, and non stop settler violence everywhere even in the West Bank.
More than 5,700 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli airstrikes since the war began, according to the Hamas-run Ministry of Health in Gaza, the New York Times reported.
I would take this number always with a grain of salt.
Understandable, it’s a claim made by a partisan faction after all. That said, according to this random X/Twitter account the IDF itself claimed two days ago to have made “over 10,000 targeted strikes” on Gaza since the beginning of the current conflict, so the casualty number given by Hamas works out to about 0.57 fatalities per strike, which doesn’t seem like that outlandish a claim to me given how densely populated Gaza is.
Proud of Guterres’ courage. We share a country and an alma mater and that also makes me proud.
SLAMMED fuck journalism today.
It triggers me every single time I read it. When did journalists forget how to write like adults? Who as we all know, would use criticize instead of slam.
I think a lot of them do it on purpose because they know it will drive up engagement with people posting about the shitty titles.
100% chance this was an editor decision. Their mission is not only to edit what the journalist wrote, but to also sell it, make it engaging, bring in eyes for ads or subscription. I’ve never met a journalist who had the title of their article intact as written. That is almost always rewritten entirely by an editor or a team of editors.
The kids of yesterday grew up to be the journalists of today.
There are no journalists. Just propagandists and AI.
Fuck Israel. I am out of words, how worse can this get?
In the other thread you call for the destruction of Israel and for Jews to live under Hamas rule. This is going to get a lot worse while Hamas and people like you refuse a 2 state solution.
I used to be like you. Went to the rallies. Even met with the leaders, until they showed me they were racist and hated Jews. Didn’t want Israel to exist. Then I realized that both sides were just going to be at each other’s throats till the end of time. Because neither would back down or allow the other to back down.
In a game of Total destruction there will be no winners. The only way to win is not to play. Yet Hamas has plenty of support from some people to erase Israel. Hamas and Israel are going to fight. And more people die in conflicts in Africa every day. But it’s more important to hate Jews then discuss what can be done to protect civilians in conflicts with higher casualty rates in Africa…
In the other thread you call for the destruction of Israel and for Jews to live under Hamas rule.
Dude, where do you pull this shit from? Your ass? Quote me.
You literally said Hamas should be given all of Israeli and Israeli citizens should give up their citizenship and live under a “democratic” Palestine. We both know Hamas will stop at nothing less than exterminating all Jews. That’s their official stance that Hamas themselves advocate for.
“Jewish people can stay and live under Palestine”
Translation, remove the borders and let Hamas expand their operations
I’d be open to this type of thinking if the leaders of the rallies I went to didn’t say they want all Jews dead and their homeland restored to them after the rally was over behind closed doors when they weren’t in front of the media. All that one state solution is propaganda BS without a chance of happening.
Yea sure let’s trust the hostage takers and child murders not to take any more hostages or murder more Jewish childen.
There are no innocents here and it’s all propaganda.
“Jewish people can stay and live under Palestine”
Translation, remove the borders and let Hamas expand their operations
Your translation is really pathetic. I think you must be a troll.
Ok if you’re not being disingenuous then how will you get Hamas to lay down their arms when they, Iran, and Hezbollah have all said they will not until all the Jews are dead?
How do you propose to end the conflict and unite the governments?
How should both sides unarm?
How can desegregation be implemented like it was after the troubles?
We both know you post so often you’re the one in the PR brigade and have no interest in reunification, which I’m old enough to remember seeing in several countries. It’s not Israel that’s holding up a two or one state solution. It’s those obsessed with killing all Israeli Jews.
A best one side is in a religiously modified war and the other fighting to survive. At worst both sides are in a religiously motivated war that will never end.
Well, in a vacuum or not, it still sucked.
Hamas terrorist attacks sucked. Bombing whole city blocks in retaliation sucks. Indeed.
Personally I’m astonished how many seems to find it easy picking a side. The more I learn the less I feel sure about anything except that the whole situation sucks.
Picking a side sucks. Not picking a side sucks. I’m glad I don’t have political influence for this one.
As a tangent I feel it’s a bit symptomatic of our social media landscape having trust issues when we can’t allow ourselves to delegate having an opinion about one of the most infected and complex conflicts that is way out of most people’s control.
I don’t blame social media for this one. I dk where you grew up but being from the US… our government lies to us all the fucking time.
(sorry for what I’m about to do)
'Member Iraq has WMDs? 'member Abu Ghraib? 'member Gitmo? 'member “waterboarding isn’t torture”? 'member we had no warning about 9/11? 'member the “kill team” who took human body parts? 'member Iran-Contra? 'member “I am not a crook”?
And those are just the popular ones.
Bit of a theme there. What was the incumbent party at the time?
I don’t want to turn it into a sides thing, Obama bombed a few hospitals of his own and Biden is fumbling pretty fucking hard right now.
More examples that come to mind:
Tuskegee Syphilis study and the Regan administrations response to AIDS
“Earth exists within a vacuum, therefore UN chief is wrong.”
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