Such a red flag when someone says they aren’t political as a way to avoid speaking their opinions.
They know it’s unpopular and will rightfully be called out.
Or, you know, they’re tired of talking and hearing about it 24/7.
Or, they’re like me and live in a maga area
Aren’t we all? Some of us don’t have the luxury of escaping it.
Ok? That doesn’t mean that you have to participate in conversations about it.
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do, or in this case, say nothing.
In a way I see what stabbing is saying, and yeah in magaland its sometimes better to stay quiet and make a difference in other ways without making yourself a target of violence. However, if youre around maga-lite like some folks I know who get angry when they see a rainbow flag, small comments like “why would you care about people being inclusive?” Makes them have the tiniest shred of introspection.
This. I know a number of people who think of themselves as right wing, but if you actually listen to them their opinions are far more on the left. If you can actually listen to them, understand where they’re coming from and show them empathetically who is actually fucking them over, you can do a lot more than if you staunchly refuse to have any contact with them.
And even questions like yours, although I’d rephrase it as “why does it matter to you?” That focusses the question on them without giving them something else to latch on to distract from the question.
Exactly…i mean full magas are a lost cause. But its the maga lite that occasionally watches fox news and gets news from Facebook that we can maybe save.
Also youre totally right. They are brainwashed to think they need to fight Demonrats and immigrants and gays, when in reality it’s the billionaires we need to fight. Thats why the rih pour billions into dissent and trying to cause infighting. Its disgusting.
Or allow stupid to be swooned by evil.
Those are two very different things.
Someone who says “I’m not very political” in a maga-infused bar because they’re afraid of being assaulted for being left-wing isn’t really the same as “I’m tired so I’m not going to stand up for my neighbor today”
You people are too terminally online.
way to prove the point
The point that not espousing your political opinions at every available opportunity means your opinions are bad?
I’m sorry but the fucking world seems to be ending. If you declare you’re sick of hearing about it, it doesn’t put you in the best light.
Some people need to for their mental health. Not everyone is as terminally online as Lemmy users tend to be.
Absolutely fair point, I’m in no position to lecture anyone on that here on the edge of my sanity. I just think it’s dangerous to disregard “politics” because it affects everyone and there are some things you need to see coming so you have enough time to plan and adapt. I have a lot of trauma around safety so I’m probably way more on edge about this kind of thing than most people.
100% this. Me talking about politics is going to do fuckall where I live. Listening and dealing with it just wrecks my mental health, and for no gain. I vote and encourage/push my friends & family to, but outside of that it’s just detrimental.
That’s exactly the problem, though - if they feel like just one part of their opinion being outside the group thing will get them chastised, well there’s something wrong there. It has to be possible to disagree with people and still listen to them. Because that’s how you get them to listen to you, which is the only real chance you have to change their opinion long term.
We’ve been tolerable of the intolerant long enough.
I don’t know what you’re referring to, I don’t remember when we have been particularly tolerant towards people who think differently. This opinion has gotten me at least as much flak a decade or so ago as today in circles like these.
At least in the US, there was a very specific time where we were absolutely too tolerant with the intolerant and that has directly led to our political quagmire now:
Paradox of tolerance: if a society extends tolerance to those who are intolerant, it risks enabling the eventual dominance of intolerance, thereby undermining the very principle of tolerance.
Which very specific time are you referring to? You just linked to a Wikipedia article on the paradox of intolerance, which even explains how it’s not nearly as simple as you present it. And the other article you linked is an opinion piece that shows more of a pattern than a causational relationship.
I’m clearly referencing the time after the American Civil War when the traitors weren’t punished enough.
… And there are many years between then and now. I was talking about the last few decades.
But you know, you have kind of proven my point ITT. You may not be outright chastising anyone, but you’re pretty sarcastic with anyone who doesn’t agree with you and act like your opinion is the only correct one and anyone with a different one is less than you. People don’t like being treated like that, so no wonder they just say “I don’t do politics” - because they probably have more self respect than I do.
While the rollback of post Civil War reconstruction and tolerance of violent segregationists is definitely an instance of “tolerance of the intolerant”, you should read the article and source material it’s quoting more closely, because you’re contradicting the entire argument they’re making. Here’s the quoted passage again, but in full
[Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.] But we should claim the right to suppress them [intolerant ideologies] if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.
As usual in political philosophy, the definition of intolerance is stricter and includes an element of rejection by force or imposition. From the passage, the type of intolerance they refer to is the kind that uses force and refuses debate. They even explicitly reject that we should in general “suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies” as long as rational argument & public opinion still govern public choice.
In that discourse where the philosopher is arguing that a free, open inquiry and rational argument is crucial to an open society, they unsurprising aren’t arguing for the suppression of exclusionary opinions. They’re arguing for a system of governance that protects freedom of individuals to debate (and denounce) each other.
So, tolerating segregationist terrorists in the post Civil War is a case of “extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant” as mentioned in the paradox. In contrast, a disagreement with someone who is not imposing their beliefs is not, and the paradox has no bearing.
Paradox of tolerance has no bearing on disagreements lacking imposition, and is used to defend open discourse, not argue against it.
It’s code for right winger trying to get laid.
conservatives say that, and another camp, the ones that are totally ignorant of political wont even look or read at news of it, they are probably worst because they are wishwashy on when the time comes who they support. i overheard in a library one time, 1 guy was talking about war/politics to a girl, and she said she doesnt like talking about it, or even read the news about it.
Exposure to the struggles of other people taught me that while my rights might not be on the chopping block right now, I’m sure as hell in line and the best way to protect myself is to protect those who are in danger now.
Trans rights are human rights.
Its not just that, iv had coworkers, teammates, lots of randos who are women, and/or minorities, and/or immigrants, who say the same shit! Oh the president doesnt affect me why should I vote?
First off, i work for the state, ok pres is federal but bitch why you not voting local?!? Also yes the president does have effects on your life, right down to the money on our check.
Bahhhh rant over.
what really opened my eyes was working on the executive end of homelessness services. when democrats are in power, there’s ample funding and many available grants. when republicans are in power, there is no funding.
i previously didn’t think the funding was as inconsistent as it is, i guess.
They’re the same as centrists. The just don’t want to be criticized for their conservative beleifs.
i used to call myself a centrist, until i found out bernie is considered “fringe left” in this country…
it’s basically a self-report atp
I think it’s more like “I have no idea how the world around me works, I’ve never cracked a book I wasn’t forced to.”
And they were never forced to because their rights were never threatened…
This is a double edged sword. I know a number of people who are in more right wing communities but are more left themselves that try to stay out of politics, as well.
What kind of right wing communities are worthy of setting aside one’s own morals in order to belong?
I think they mean like, their hometown
Even more of a reason to talk emphatically and with empathy about these subjects.
Yeah I don’t agree with all out avoidance myself but I can see why some people whose family or community is hard right maga would not be able to safely debate these topics in all aspects of their life.
Maybe not in all aspects of their life, but if they avoid it in every aspect, then there needs to be a reckoning within themselves. If you are quiet in the face of injustice, you are cosigning and supporting the injustice.
It’s not easy to speak up among monsters. I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss people on lack of courage grounds only.
Uhh like all of america between the east and west coast, white suburbs etc.
I don’t think they’re worthy of setting aside one’s own morals in order to belong though.
I guess the meaning changes depending on how far into red country you are.
There are also disillusioned sorts who were into politics but have decided its a doomed project and that we’re all fucked anyway. And that anytime they engage they just destroy themselves socially while everyone else around them socially thrives by being complacent.
I almost belong to the first group. Overall, I am left of most political spectrums out there, on the edge of “let’s abolish borders and institute UBI”, but I see the world going more and more right and it has been taking away from my motivation. I will still stand up for human rights, but will mostly avoid talking politics unless I have hopes of planting a seed.
I think it’s more about not wanting to argue with you
Preferring an absence of tension over the presence of justice is famously a weak moral position to take.
Or I don’t give a shit about your political take while I’m at work lol. Like shit just let me drink my coffee without having to hear your amazing political takes
I think it is a difference in culture as well, in this case. Here it is still kind of normal, to avoid talking politics, since it is considered personal, and that in many situations makes it impolite. So it can really be about not wanting to interact, and not just an attempt to hide conservative values.
Well, hiding conservative or any other values, depending on what the general atmosphere at the workplace is.
Same way it’s not a particular political leaning that thinks they are blessing other peoples by insisting on telling them their mindblowing political takes. You get all sorts of people doing that, unfortunately
I agree. The general athmosphere has been getting steadily worse, in my opinion, likely with social media dividing people more into the extreme ends, which then fight very visibly against each other. This in turn pushes people away from taking part, which makes things look even worse, and more people not wanting to talk about politics at all.
For me it’s often that the people most vocal about this stuff are people you don’t really want to engage with. Kids with the most basic take that’s totally amazing and world changing to them or some fuckass racist old people etc. They’re the sort of a people who think they’re doing you a favour by trying to rope you into an argument with them or that they’re making a difference™ with that, so the argument is just them lecturing you.
No thanks
“My rights as a human are up in the air every 4 years”
No. This is called framing. Your rights are up in the air every day.
God this is such a clarifying take. The meme is just ‘voting is the most important thing you can do’ when it was always narratively a free lottery ticket and now kind of actually resembles a free lottery ticket in other ways. would you buy a free lottery ticket? i would.
If only the things we actually wanted were on the voting ballot, and if only the things we voted for actually came true, I would have no problem with the concept of voting, but the way ballots & polls & elections are currently run, the entire system is a joke.
What a weird way to spell “everyone should have the same priorities as I do. I’m the most important”.
Agreed. Very dramatic.
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You want people to act like conservatives in interpersonal communication?
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Some peoples’ rights as a human being are up in the air and they STILL stay out of politics. Or actively support the side trying to remove their rights.
Some people are just really stupid, unfortunately.
I only say this when I think the people I’m around are MAGA. Living in Missouri means that’s basically everywhere outside of major cities. Like I had no problem talking politics with these 2 people I was with in the film group I’m apart of cause they made it clear they were not conservative. At work though? Yeah I’m doing what I can to not bring it up cause everyone I hear talk there is ultra MAGA.
I don’t consider it politics anymore I just consider it life now
