Jon von Tetzchner, CEO and founder of Vivaldi Technologies, refuses to integrate AI features in its browser and wants human engineers, not AI, to write its code.
Firefox has locally run AI features you can turn off easily. I don’t see the harm. Occasionally I use the translation feature for foreign websites.
If you ask me, Firefox gets a lot of shit and it’s blown completely out of proportion. Are they without flaw? Of course not, but it’s not nearly as bad as people want you to believe.It’s a purity race to oblivion : people who know and care use Firefox. They switched away from the default and by that very action they are in the tiny minority who actually has a grasp at problems and dare try to do something about. They are vocal about it, put efforts into the process so they in general want “more” and “better” according to their own criteria. It doesn’t stop there though, once they have moved away for privacy or open source or sovereignty or whatever else, they want the other criteria and it won’t stop.
It is recursive though, people who care a lot about some criteria move away from Firefox, the now “mainstream” within that community, then use e.g. Waterfox or LibreWolf. You can see this in any community which moves away from the mainstream choice really. There is a vocal minority within the minority and they do have genuine reasons and concern.
Once you use LibreWolf I bet there are other forks, etc, etc.
For those people what Firefox is doing is actually very bad because it goes back to what they wanted to move away from.
It’s hard to convince me to switch away from Firefox, but Vivaldi doesn’t seem like a horrible choice if you need Chromium for WebUSB or something.
Can’t understand we’ve gotten this far and no one has mentioned Helium.
“Customers don’t want it” is surprisingly difficult to understand for a lot of companies nowadays. Vivaldi must be run by some sort of language genius.
I’m not switching to Vivaldi, but it is refreshing to see someone say “I didn’t put X in the product because people don’t want X in the product.”
That’s why you’re shipping Chrome with a very attractive skin and set of add-ons, by modern measure (reminiscent of Britannica electronic versions from year 2001 or I don’t know what), that’s still not as functional, convenient and generally awesome as Opera 12.
I’m not qualified to give anyone business advice, especially JvT, just think that in web browser market the field is so dead (as in captured by oligopoly) that retrospectively they were more likely to succeed forking a subset of Web standards and explicitly positioning continuations of Opera as a client for that and not mainstream Web.
Or claiming compliance with W3C standards and rejecting WHATWG etc.
And, of course, making it a paid product again, perhaps with a free version with ads and part of features locked (as it were before they made the browser free but with Google search and Google payments from that, what could go wrong ; I suspect those people were still psychologically a Norwegian state telecom company project and wanted some “public” sort of funding with product free to use, and remember how Google was positioning itself almost like a non-commercial entity). Compared to the amount of ads on webpages, this is nothing, and back then people were still a bit more computer literate in general and that they’d understand.
That’s not a heavier task than competing with Chrome/Safari/etc was as Opera Software, and perhaps that’s not even a heavier task that Vivaldi is doing.
I mean, W3C standards at least end somewhere and are not defined by what their combined competition collectively decides as fast as they need.
But it’s been 13 years already, and back then seriously thinking of dropping/forking the Web as a platform, or at least Google “standards” of it, wasn’t possible. Now there’s Telegram attaining more and more functionality, and other messengers and siloed services, and non-siloed ones, like NOSTR and Gemini (hypertext, not AI).
Anyway, there’s just one thing I don’t understand about them, if Google killed their business, why try it again depending on Google again? Couldn’t they base it on WebKit? On Firefox?
Google didn’t kill their business. Opera moved to chromium to save money.
The end user does not give a shit what engine their browser is built on. They care that [a] it has the features they want and [b] works well. Webkit still does not satisfy [a] and neither would running a subset of web standards. Firefox I’m not sure about. That said, running off chromium has worked fine for them so far.
My best guess is that everyone is optimising their websites for Chrome for the most part, so forking Firefox would potentially be seen as a negative for users. Most likely why almost all companies fork Chrome instead of literally anything else.
I mean, if firefox didn’t kneecap themselves every so often then probably people would also optimize for firefox. One example, WebUSB. I can configure my keyboard from a website. No need to install any 3rd party native app. On chrome, you have webserial on Android even. So I do have PWA that I can use to read sensor over serial via OTG. Not only that, chrome also support PWA install even on desktop. Firefox removed PWA ability to be installed on the desktop. That’s why technically electron is not needed if companies aren’t so greedy to spy on your pc using more invasive method. Just ship the html, css, assets and js then let the browser be the sandbox. No need to ship the browser itself.
I’m going to stick with Firefox but also because they take the same stance.
Excel when they aren’t. Firefox bundles AI with their browser. Sure they let you turn it off. But it’s turned on by default and still there.
I’ve tried Vivaldi before in the past and it’s UI and cluttered interface turned me way off. I’ve got my own concerns about it still that hasn’t made me jump to it. That being, it relies on the Chrome Web Store to install extensions. If Google themselves decided not to have something on that store and you’re using it on Vivaldi, well you’re SOL.
That’s an advantage for Firefox, that has its own extensions. Some of us are stuck with Firefox despite their interestingly bad choices and historical lack of fulfilling promises on their own behalf. There are still key advantages with Firefox than most browsers.
And even if some of us are tired of Firefox anyway, we’ve got its forks to use.
That being, it relies on the Chrome Web Store to install extensions. If Google themselves decided not to have something on that store and you’re using it on Vivaldi, well you’re SOL.
Note you can sideload extensions essentially. Google’s been fine afaik, but if they did suddenly go crazy it wouldn’t be that hard for Vivaldi and other chromium browsers to run their own store.
They have improved the UI quite a lot recently imo.
I’m the inverse. The amount of customization and power user features are what makes it my daily driver, though I agree the reliance on Google isn’t good. Also having their sync data stored e2e encrypted with my own private key is a nice touch. Though if a heavily customizable fork of Firefox with features like that was available I’d likely switch. I don’t have the time to maintain a highly customized userchrome.css that could break with every update, unfortunately
It’s been a long time since I used Vivaldi, but I find Zen browser fits what I remember of Vivaldi.
just as “most users” don’t want ai baked into their browser, “most users” probably don’t use any addons, or use only one–an adblocker. ad blocking (with configurable filter lists) is built into vivaldi already, no separate addon needed. works well-enough.
that said, the chromium base and its dependency on google to provide the ‘addon store’ is vivaldi’s main detractor, because google has been putting the screws to anything that threatens their business as a data harvesting advertising company.
vivaldi does have some features not found in other browsers or other chromium browsers (excepting some in common with opera). the one i appreciate the most is the configurable toolbars, both items and their positions… similar to how you can configure firefox’s main toolbar.
i do occasionally need a chromium browser for specific tasks. vivaldi is the one i use. usually as a ‘portable’ installation that is easiest to trash when i’m done. it’s also the one i use for a couple streaming sites because it does use chrome addons (but also is not chrome, either).
Some of us are stuck with Firefox despite their interestingly bad choices and historical lack of fulfilling promises on their own behalf. There are still key advantages with Firefox than most browsers.
That’s why I use Librewolf/Ironfox on my laptop/phone. All the benefits of Firefox and none of the half-baked promises or bad decisions!
Would give it a try if it wasn’t proprietary.
Hell, I’d use it if it wasn’t Chromium.
Vivaldis not bad. Good for work where you need different profiles; not crazy resource intensive
And for people like me with a problem closing tabs, the memory management is excellent, killing off anything that hasn’t been used in a while.
You can do that in Firefox too tbf
I’m on librewolf just now having used vivaldi for about three years as my daily. Great browser, I just fancied swapping the chromium problems for gecko problems for a while :D
Idk about not resource intensive but it does browser things happily.
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I really do appreciate that he has enough sense to recognize everyone hates AI, I just wish he also had enough sense to recognize Vivaldi sucks.
My husband has a lot of nostalgia for opera (long story, don’t ask) but some of the dubious connections there made them a non-option for us as we got more into internet privacy. He was super happy when I switched him over to Vivaldi.
I was an Opera user for a decade. I think there designers left to start Vivaldi.
That’s correct. They wanted to build Opera the way it could have been if different choices were made. I think they built something really good.
I never heard that connection but I do know it was sort of intended as a spiritual successor to opera, so if true, that would make a LOT of sense
Seems much of Lemmy is still married to Firefox despite all their slop and Alphabet funding.
I’m going to keep beating the Vivaldi drum as their mission has always been clear. Yes I understand the chromium backbone, but as long as uBlock continues to work I’m staying on board.
so you are worried about the alphabet funding but use a chromium based browser?
Right. This is really. Really fucking weird.
Yes, I said that, why is this phrased as a question? Money has a huge influence. I’d rather use something thats getting something free from gooe (chromium core) than a something from a company getting paid by them
You can like one thing without having to shit on the other. Firefox is fine. Vivaldi is cool. Simple as that. Not everything is a team sport.
The browser wars require browser fighting words, I am always happy to hear critique about these products… especially in 2026 when the corpo’s meta game is to completely stifle any and all bad PR / reviews / discussion.
I’m not shitting, just explaining reason I don’t like it.
Seems more like you’re explaining why you think others shouldn’t like it.
Try not to read into it too much.
You typed it out to be read. Now you don’t want people to read to much in to it after I guess not liking the reception.
I typed out why I don’t like it. I know exactly how people here feel about Firefox. It’s very predictable. Its the one AI software they will defend tirelessly.
What browser do you use? If you hate Chrome and Firefox, that’s really going to limit your choices. Derivatives of both of those must be forbidden too because all of those would cease to exist if the base browsers vanished.
Something WebKit based? Or are you using something based on the Goanna fork of Gecko?
Who’s hating, I thi k maybe you responded to the wrong comment?
UBlock origin is just so much better than any other ad blocker, and it’s Firefox’s main feature.
So Firefox main feature is something made not by Firefox? That’s a little sad. Why not use uBlock on Vivaldi?
Because it’s chromium-based and Google broke that possibility on purpose. It’s what they get for being Google’s bitch.
It works just fine if you aren’t using chrome. It’s not broke in chromium.
Googles bitch? You mean firefox? The company that wouldn’t exist without a regular paycheck from google?
there’s also something to be said for having a backwards-compatible configuration and history that stretches over 25 years. it’s why i stayed on gecko when switching browser.
Edit: apparently vivaldi is closed-source? huh.
That Chromium backbone is exactly why. Firefox or forks of it are preferred. Other browsers using different engines can also be recommended, but I only know of some WIP projects right now. Also, Vivaldi is proprietary, not open source.
Firefox is still the better browser, and frankly I can’t just get over that anything else is simply chrome with a skin.
I like Vivaldi, it is my secondary browser, but Firefox is preferred. But good for you, anything is better than Brave. Vivaldi has some great aspirations of being a suite like Mozilla was back in the day, but if they want to do that, they need to make their upgrades not break their sync. The fact that happens so often makes me worry a little about their overall system.
IE6 teaches us that a multi-engine web is best, though…
It is really important that no single project or company dominates the web. Any browser based on chromium is not going to be well received by people concerned about current engine diversity. Whatever people think of the Mozilla corp or foundation and their stewardship, there is a strong public interest in promoting wider use of the Gecko engine and any other Blink alternatives. Many here will be running forks like librewolf to remove Firefox features we don’t want or trust.
In a healthy ecosystem people will use a diversity of products that suit their individual tastes and needs and that is fine. Advocates warning against over dependence on Chromium are doing it with very good intentions. We don’t need everyone to switch. We only need enough to avoid a mono-culture and the death of the open web. There is plenty of room left for diversity and freedom of choice.
The majority don’t even think about what browser they are using and use what is installed by default. They are the real battle. If a fraction of them did some research and made an informed choice, even if many chose Chromium browsers, the ecosystem would be much healthier.
Continuing to use Firefox so that Google has to keep wasting their money on it to avoid the antitrust lawsuit >>>
As someone who’s extremely picky about my browsers/extensions/etc AND who’s forced to use Edge and Chrome at work…. I make due with Firefox because everything else is just off enough that I can’t commit to ‘em longterm
Does casting tabs to a TV work?
Why would you cast tabs specifically to a TV and not just cast to the entire TV Itself and just make it a big pseudo monitor? 🤔
Been on the wolf for quite some time, but I gotta respect Vivaldis values
