- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
"How has Stein fared as a leader? By AOC’s perfectly reasonable standard, she’s done abysmally. As of July 2024, a mere 143 officeholders in the United States are affiliated with the Green Party. None of them are in statewide or federal offices. In fact, no Green Party candidate has ever won federal office. And Stein’s reign has been a period of indisputable decline, during which time the party’s membership—which peaked in 2004 at 319,000 registered members—has fallen to 234,000 today.
This meager coalition can’t possibly kick-start a legitimate political movement, capable of organizing voters and advancing ideas outside of perennial electoral events. It’s just large enough, however, to spoil the work of those who put in this kind of work."
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It’s a two party system. Everybody knows if you run as a third party you’re merely increasing the chances that the ones furthest from you politically will be elected.
It’s impossible for a third party candidate to be running for president in the US in good faith unless they’re complete fucking idiots with no idea how the political system works.
Jill Stein knows how the system works. So obviously she’s not acting in good faith.
Simple as that.
There’s room for 3rd party candidates who have principals that voters can compare candidates to and not let the 2 party system shift in whatever direction it wants as soon as the 2 parties start racing to the bottom. But if you accept Putin’s money and influence it is your party who is racing to the bottom and you have no principles so that’s when you become a useless drain.
Your party should have done better, it’s as simple as that.
How well has your party done though?
That doesnt matter. Mine doesn’t advocate for the genocide of brown people, they don’t talk mitigating climate change while accelerating it.
Are you specifying brown people because of Ukraine?
Could we please focus on Rampart, I mean, Gaza…
You won’t get through to the Putin shills. No matter how much the ruble tanks, they’re in it for the long haul
Wait, which party are you saying does advocate for genocide?
The both do
Can you link to a statement advocating for it?
Genocide denial, which is what Democrats are actively engaging in, is advocating for it.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/20/biden-gaza-not-genocide-israel-00159020
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4862241-harris-palestinian-activists-israel-gaza/
Everybody capable of rational thought knows that. However there are plenty of tankie douchebags who would love to tell you what a wrong ShItLiB you are for saying this basic truth
When I was a teenager and foolish and a republican, we campaigned for the green party because we thought we could trick democrats into voting green but we’d never get them to vote republican. make of that what you will.
It’s literally one of the things they do every election. This isn’t new. Or even news. Unless people were living under a rock, or blind.
Just like Russia, China, etc help any misinformation and disinformation campaign they can all over the world in other countries. All chaos is good for them in the end. Even if their ideal candidate doesn’t win, the bickering they help stole makes it harder for other countries to rally very well against their interests.
It’s the same reason the US has done the same shit all over as well. Promoting and supporting coups is a national passtime because it helps the US indirectly either way.
And Dems funneled money to MAGA fascists to split republicans. It’s art of war 101: divide and conquer; it doesn’t really reflect on the merits of anyone involved.
Green could be a false flag puppet of the Republicans or they could have a legitimate platform and genuine candidates working to better the world for all the rightwing cares, what matters is that they are popular enough to detract from dems.
Ironically, reacting to this as if Green is the enemy also plays into this tactic: dems become more isolated from other interests and therefore more resistant to change and adaptation to a changing political climate, which makes them less appealing and more likely to die out.
It makes total sense for Russia to make Jill Stein a Russian asset because it neutralizes an anti-oil organization. Oil is very important to Russia’s economy so of course they don’t want any phase-out of fossil fuels.
It’s much more simple. If Trump wins, Russia gets the Ukraine. Putin put the war in motion thinking Trump was a sure bet last election.
It why Trump is trying to pull us out of all our treaties. I think he gives Putin a run at all of Europe possibly.
theUkraineEdit: Found the Russian 😆 3/1
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“Useful idiot” is probably more accurate than “asset”. Even AOC doesn’t go that far…
Wait, the Green Party only had 300k members at it’s peak? That’s 0.001% of the American population. Why are all the tankies in here talking about how voting for Stein will make a difference? That’s not even enough to consider her a contender in most states, much less for the whole country.
Edit: should be 0.1%. My bad and thanks for the correction!
Because they are not trying to get her elected, they are trying to destroy the west by getting trump elected.
Hey, at their peak, when Nader was running in 2000 and Bush was installed as President by the Supreme Court, the Greens got 2.7% of the vote!
The best they’ve done since then is Stein in 2016 with 1.07%.
Generally, they’re 0.1%, 0.3%. In that range.
People forget, but in the 70’s Nader was so feared by the DC elite that Nixon repeatedly complained about him on the Nixon tapes. Nader would have been a good president based on his record of advocating for citizens over corporations.
Ah yeah I remember that! I remember everyone talking about the 3% threshold where (if I remember correctly) the green party would be included in debates and receive federal campaign funds. Hell, if they couldn’t do it at the height of Nader always I don’t see that happening now, particularly under Stein.
Because they can smugly claim to have accomplished something with their vote while the country burns around them. Must be nice not being at risk under a Trump administration.
Smugly is the perfect word for it. People like that turn my stomach with their attitudes
(319,000 / 293,000,000) * 100 = ~0.11%
Not 0.001%. Unless you were just overexaggerating their insignificance on purpose. However that’s then potentially 319k less voters for the Dems.
Nope, you’re right. I did it in my head and forgot to multiply by 100. Good catch!
Because for as long as they remain an available alternative to the democrats, they place pressure on them to address their policy shortfalls.
The real question is why the Democrats have suddenly decided they are an unacceptable threat, despite their declining registrations numbers.
The real question is why the Democrats have suddenly decided they are an unacceptable threat, despite their declining registrations numbers.
Because the polling is currently a toss up between Trump and Harris. And the closer the race, the easier it is for spoiler candidates to spoil the vote. Hence the panic.
The last three or four elections have been ‘toss-ups’, though. Basically since the Greens were a party.
Previously, though, democrats were fairly dismissive, and I’d say even moderately receptive to addressing or responding to their main grievances. Democrats even adopted the Green New Deal from them as recently as 2018.
It’s not an exaggeration to say that the democrats have had a very sudden change in tone around the green party, right at a time when their platform is making a swing to the right. I think it’s fair to speculate that someone made a calculated decision to abandon any effort to match or compete with the greens on policy and instead attack them on the basis of their opposition.
right at a time when their platform is making a swing to the right.
It’s also right at a time when the conservatives have been at an all time high with their open fervor for fascism.
Best to quietly affirm their fears of immigrants, then, amirite?
A classic ‘missing the forest for the trees’ moment if ever there was one.
I agree that it’s a stupid ass decision/strategy. But you can’t ignore other parts of the context.
If the context is a growing fascist movement in the US, appeasement isn’t exactly a strategy we would be hoping to see.
The Green Party is dying! Save it SB!
Didn’t you hear? @UniversalMonk@lemmy.world “isn’t even voting for Jill Stein.”
He does respect your right to vote for whoever you want though!
Yes, thank you for realizing that I do respect and support your rights to vote for whoever you want. As do I. Thank you for the shout out!
Whooosshhhhh
Lemmy Whooosshhhhh is best Whooosshhhhh
You win, as he used your prediction. 😆
I’m not voting for her.
If you have issues with the article, you can take it up with the people who wrote it. Thanks, friend!
I don’t have issues with the article and I’m not voting for her. Thanks, friend! :)
Jill Stein is so bad that if I lived in a ranked choice voting state, I would still rank her pretty low.
Can you imagine if you campaigned against trump half as much as you campaign against progressive parties?
Jill Stein is a lot of things, but “progressive” ain’t one of 'em. I’d love for Harris and the Dems to be more progressive, but they’re going to need a better example than Stein.
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Same request for you, which parts of the platform arent progressive
Ah yes, the platform of a candidate that does not have a chance at win ing, even by mistake, and can say whatever the fuck they want because of it.
Lets elect them so we can see who’s right
No one is going to read that, let alone answer you. See, this is a Stein hate thread, you’ve already lost the game.
(I know nothing about her.)
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That’s a long list of progressive ideas. Too bad she can’t possibly win in a two party system. I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect. That’s not how it works. Unfortunate for many of the ideas she lists, but also as a protective measure in case people like Trump get in and sweep what’s left away to put in place a dictatorship. Like he’s promised to do.
So putting away the policy comparisons and party names, and just looking at the math. Can a third party win in an established two party system in a FPTP election? The answer is a simple no. I’d love to see a ranking system in place to allow diversity of opinions have a chance in elections, and there’s a bill right now to do that nationally, by Democrats because they’re the ones that would do well in such a system. Let’s fix the real problem and stop this decades-long third party dream to do the impossible.
And until there’s a grassroots movement and support at the local levels, the Green Party is always going to look like and be the spoiler party, no matter how many nice ideas they have bullet points for.
Here’s a question for you: How many of those Green policies are similar to Harris policies? I saw a few, I just wonder if you realize that you could get some of that stuff done easily with Democrats in all three seats of power. Which we have a chance to do.
I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect.
Well if youre just gonna flat out lie
Can you imagine if Jill Stein was progressive? Yeah me neither…
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Can you point what parts of the platform arent progressive?
Man the anti-stein crowd cant tolerate the most basic of questions
OP pointed a big red arrow at Stein’s stated beliefs, there’s your answer. Anything to say except, “Nuh uh!”?
I dont believe there is a single stated belief from Stein in the entire article
Same can be said about those promoting Jill Stein and other spoiler parties.
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Oh, yeah, me too, I am a very far left lefty. That’s why when it comes to elections I ignore groups like Uncommitted and instead vote how the furthest right group wants lefties to vote.
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A party that might get 1% of the vote represents a “wide swath of America” more than a party that gets >50% ?
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Let’s talk about the issue at hand. Do you think pulling support for Israel to appease 1-5% of the voter base would have no consequences when it comes to voters who want to support Israel?
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Your argument, so you go first: Which widely popular policy is the Democratic Party not endorsing, and can you cite a measurement of how popular it is?
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I imagine that most of it is going there, at least if one were to follow the money trail. It’s just that the Green party is so much smaller, so a few bits of afterthought saber rattling hurt them a lot worse than a much larger spend (by the Dems) against the GOP hurts the GOP.
Was the Green party ever alive? I don’t think so.
Did well enough to stop lots of nuclear from getting built. God, they suck.
I liked Nader, and there were a few candidates inbetween before Stein took it over for good. But now even Nader isn’t for Stein…
ITT: Blue MAGA and preaching to the choir.
Dr. Jill Stein has improved the Green Party; y’all just believe anything the duopoly and owner-class media spit out when it agrees with your thinking.
Muslim support is at an all-time high for Dr. Jill Stein; that is why AOCPelosi, the new attack dog of Blue MAGA, started up again.
I suggest getting out of the echo chambers and checking out independent journalists instead of continuing the self-censorship.
Blue MAGA is not real
It’s as real as MAGA, but MAGA knows it’s batshit crazy
It’s not, and thinking that way does not make you enlightened, it makes you completely unable to comprehend the facts
They are and they call you a nazi for saying free palestine or saying anything remotely negative about any democrat ever
Edit but also the guy you’re replying to is dumb, wtf do they mean by AOCPelosi? They hate eachother xD
AOC would never hate “Mama Bear!”
They are absolutely not. I’m voting Democratic all the way down the ticket this year and I will say all day that Biden needs to cut the crap with his support for Israel (while also mentioning Trump has been accused of illegally contacting Israel to sabotage the ceasefire deals). Lots of people I know share this exact opinion. Your argument is a strawman.
You and your friends not being that doesn’t mean they’re not real. A lot of democrats will call you a Chinese spy for suggesting that Biden or other democrats could do better on Israel, and to them even remotely questioning whether we should be blindly VBNMWing for all eternity makes you a nazi who’s trying to get trump elected. Blue maga is real, and their existence and the fact all other democrats deny they exist is gonna get Trump elected 100x faster than trying to make democrats more electable and less genocidal. I promise you the moment trump dies, I never vote blue again unless yall get your shit together and stop trying to be almost as far right and and blindly fanatical and genocidal as republicans (slight edit bc I was being kinda hyperbolic on how many dems are magalike)
Is bLuE mAgA in the room with you right now?
BlueMAGA mentality infests society like mosquitoes and roaches
Dehumanizing people …not a good look.
BlueMAGA is an ideology not a person
Oh it’s our resident “independent journalism” guy who seems to post nothing but far-right podcasts.
Dr. Jill Stein has improved the Green Party; y’all just believe anything the duopoly and owner-class media spit out when it agrees with your thinking.
In what ways, alongside the one point mentioned, and according to what sources (presumably not from the party itself)?
The greater part of the population is not very intelligent, dreads responsibility, and desires nothing better than to be told what to do. Provided the rulers do not interfere with its material comforts and its cherished beliefs, it is perfectly happy to let itself be ruled.
~Aldous Huxley
Wow! Never read that quote. Perfectly explains how American politics got to be such a mess. I laugh at all the revolutionary talk around here.
material comforts
Yeah, no, we’re so well-fed we have to find excuses for our rampant obesity. There won’t be a revolution until people are literally fighting for food and our masters will never allow that to come to pass. Look at lemmy, bitching and moaning about video game prices and such. We’re pretty fucking far from lacking material comforts. To add, a lot of people think they’re suffering, but haven’t seen a day of true poverty in their lives. Y’all, you’re suffering in comparison to what could and should be.
cherished beliefs
As fast as we in the West are dropping religion, notice the politicians haven’t done anything about the rampant sex abuse? Taxing the church? Unheard of! Let the masses have their silly beliefs, stick to the middle of the road if you must, get elected again.
Oh jeez is that why Nader is voting the way he says he is?
Green / Red…can’t ell the difference when you’re colorblind.
Reactionary people are unable to accept that some of us are socialists who have an absolute fear of more orange bad. I love where I live and planned to stay the rest of my life, but will be forced (by my own standards and fear) to leave the country if he returns to office.
Liberals are desperate to smear any threat to their existence and power. Watching it reminds me of Southerners that were desperate to cling to their ‘heritage’ of hate and bigotry. They didn’t see it as hate and bigotry, but everyone else paying attention did
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I think Ralph Nader killed it when he helped get us Bush and the war criminals.
Jill just figured out the Putin would pay to reanimate its corpse.
The Green Party really didn’t exist before Nader. There was a loose coalition of state Green parties that united under Nader in 1996. But the idea of a national Green party wouldn’t happen until 2001.
Good point, but I still think that even if he created it, he also damaged its reputation the most in the 2000 election.
Stein being a stooge for Putin is just the result of a weak/desperate organization that needs funding and has no real leadership or ideals outside of at best, wanting to exist, but at worst, planning to spoil for an ideologically opposite party.
The Green Party is mostly a joke anyway.
