• 𝕸𝖔𝖘𝖘
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    35 days ago

    I set up a kiosk on a Linux Mint machine today. From blank, unformatted drive to fully deployed kiosk, it took less time than just installing a base install of win11.

    • Lettuce eat lettuce
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      15 days ago

      How did you set up the kiosk? I’ve been looking for an alternative to Windows Kiosk mode on Linux for a while now.

  • @renrenPDX@lemmy.world
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    45 days ago

    Unless you install Linux mint with multiple displays. Holy 1 sec flickering sideways displays Batman. I don’t remember what I did exactly to fix but probably single display until drivers are all installed.

    • @padge@lemmy.zip
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      15 days ago

      Omg please tell me when you do, I’m running Mint on my laptop but want to migrate my desktop over soon which has multiple displays

      • @renrenPDX@lemmy.world
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        24 days ago

        I’m pretty sure that was the fix. Start the installation with a normal single monitor. Once the OS is installed, run update manager to download and install updates. This would include GPU drivers. My second monitor is in portrait mode which I think was the culprit.

    • qaz
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      15 days ago

      I’ve probably used it more than a hundred times now, but I still get confused about the current step sometimes.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost
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      25 days ago

      It really is, I can use it, but it’s clunky compared to even Arch’s TUI. Gentoo is harder, but Gentoo isn’t trying to do what Debian is.

      • @ikidd@lemmy.world
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        25 days ago

        Another bad one is Fedora’s. I’m used to it, of course, but the placement of the buttons to exit screens is all over the fuck, and you better know what you’re doing in order to even set the hostname and make a user during install.

    • @JustARegularNerd@lemmy.world
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      25 days ago

      It’s one of the only installers that seems to take the longest compatatively and (afaik) doesn’t really let you leave it unaftended. Most other distros let you just set everything first then go, but Debian does that and then asks you what DE and other questions mid install…

      • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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        135 days ago

        Installing any operating system is often a hassle. This comes in part from my own experience trying to understand the unguided partition recommendations of a Bazzite (basically Fedora on low level) install. I got through it, but it was certainly no easier than Windows.

          • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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            35 days ago

            I’m not sure what you mean by an existing Windows install. If you mean going through launch screens on a new device that’s configured the OEM setup, then no, I have experience (granted, now in the past) with doing Windows installs from blank drives.

        • @areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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          5 days ago

          This isn’t true. Try Linux Mint or Ubuntu, their installers are much better. Those installers used by Fedora, RedHat, and even SUSE can be a bit weird.

          They specifically say unbloated Windows as well which while it’s not as difficult as they make out is still somewhat annoying.

          I’ve recently had a Windows installer fail to see my NVMe drives until I changed some random UEFI setting because it was missing a driver. Linux could see it just fine, as could Hirens boot.

          • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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            65 days ago

            Not to make a “Gotcha”, but Linux Mint was the other distro I tried, as I’ve complained about before. The first release I tried, which was less than a year old (on a 2+ year old computer) didn’t even run the wifi, audio, or bluetooth drivers correctly.

            And, I had that same type of UEFI setting on Linux; Mint wanted to install on a GPT drive record, when my old drives (on Windows) used an MBT. It’s a conversion process both OSes will help with, but Mint gave some errors with it, and it was honestly easier to use Windows’ tools to get it done. Not even sure why Mint was insistent on it. Oh, and a mostly distro-agnostic annoyance: While attempting that conversion and making extra space for the GPT format, I ended up wiping more of the drives than needed during conversion because the partition manager used on several distributions uses bad messaging, and incorrectly refers to an individual partition under /dev/nvmesda0# as a “device”.

            • @areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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              5 days ago

              UEFI won’t boot from MBR drives unless it’s in BIOS compatibility mode. What format the drive is in isn’t determined by a firmware setting, though it can affect the boot process. I don’t think you actually understand what you are talking about here. The easiest way to install OSes both Windows and Linux is by wiping the drive, which would have solved this issue. Dual boot on single drive configurations normally have issues and will always be more complicated. It’s better to use two drives where possible in most cases. I suggest you read up on BIOS vs UEFI and how partition tables work if you want to do a complex setup like that.

              Mint is known for having older kernels and therefore not supporting the latest hardware. They have a different edition for newer computers called Linux Mint Edge edition. Something Arch derived like CachyOS or another distro using recent kernels will always have the best support for bleeding edge hardware. The CachyOS installer is also pretty friendly, though maybe not as much as Mint.

              • @Katana314@lemmy.world
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                25 days ago

                Note that my post said “old drives” - plural. Mint was being installed on a secondary, formatted drive, and refused because that drive was not GPT-formatted (that record exists outside of the filesystem formatting). At the time, the BIOS was not set to force UEFI, so this was Mint’s decision, not the BIOS’s, and I don’t understand it. I left Windows alone on a different drive.

                Believe me, I did plenty of reading up on BIOS UEFI settings just to resolve the issue. I still don’t claim to be a master, but I at least know enough to express how annoying the reconfiguration can be - independent of which OS you’re choosing.

                • @areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
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                  4 days ago

                  Actually no. It’s not Mint’s decision whether to start the install USB with UEFI or BIOS. It actually depends on what the firmware chose to start and how the install medium is formatted. Some install media is only setup for BIOS booting, some for only UEFI, and some can do both. If the firmware detects the medium as supporting both then it should choose UEFI first but this depends on what settings you have in the firmware, and if you choose an option at a boot menu as boot menus allow you to override the default. When it comes to actually installing the OS most sane installation software will look at how it booted and install that way. So if it detects it was starting with UEFI it will configure the install to be UEFI, same if it was started with BIOS it will install as BIOS. How does it know? UEFI variables are one way. They can normally only be accessed if the system was started with UEFI.

                  If you truly wipe a drive you wipe the partition table as well. You say the table is outside the file system formatting, and this is sort of true, but they are both just data on the disk. Disk don’t care where the partition table ends and the file system begins. In fact you don’t even need a partition table at all. Unlike some other systems Linux will let you put a file system straight on the disk, the whole disk, with no partition table in sight. It’s not recommended mind you, because it will freak Windows out if it sees it. Windows will see it as a blank disk and not so helpfully offer to format the thing. When I say format a disk, I mean the whole thing, partition table and all. It’s also not possible to make a partition tableless disk bootable in UEFI. In BIOS it’s possible though as BIOS doesn’t read partition tables. It just needs a boot sector and that’s it.

                  Also if you’re trying to change a disk from MBR to GPT, and you don’t care about data, you shouldn’t be converting it. You should be formatting/wiping the whole thing and making a new partition table. Which is normally what it offers to do if you tell it to erase everything and install it.

                  Edit: Getting down voted for actually knowing how computers work and bothering to explain it. Shock horror.

    • @phoneymouse@lemmy.world
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      35 days ago

      Why? I use Mac mostly, but recently built a PC. I installed two Linux distros on it without even worrying about what drivers I needed, and I even have an NVidia GPU.

      I also created a Windows partition and neither WiFi nor Bluetooth worked out of the box. Linux was objectively easier.

      • @Warl0k3@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Man, I spent like six hours getting my network drivers sorted out on my last debian install, and I could never get them working on mint. Clearly, my experience shows that linux must be fucking impossible to install. /s

        Yes, mint is a huge leap forward. No longer will my mother be calling me up at four in the morning in tears, asking why tar -xv isn’t working to extract her crochet pattern archive. Nor will I have to have friends drive over to my house with a USB drive so I can give them a properly formatted bootable, or have to help my nephew build out a custom ubuntu server image for the r810 he wants to runs his minecraft server on. Now, we have one powerful solution! Anyone can run it, it’s got a nice UI! There’s uniform tools to manage deployment and user accounts across your entire IT infrastructure! Plug it in and it just… Works…
        Wait.
        Wait shit that’s just windows.

        I use linux every day, and mint really truly is a very good choice of OS for the average consumer. But the reasons it is a good choice for the average consumer (ease of maintenance, ease of install, compatibility, community) are all the same reasons windows is a good choice for the average consumer (ignoring privacy and FOSS philosophy, because holy shit does the average consumer not give a shit). Windows can be a pain in the ass, yes. “DLL hell” is a term for a reason. But linux can be equally awful to deal with when it breaks, especially for an inexperienced or non-tech-savvy user.

        This sub can get really up it’s own ass about how easy linux is to work with. And, from our perspective, sitting here with our Tux tramp stamps, having used linux for twenty years, it is that easy. But we forget that nothing about computing is intuitive to the average person. This kind of Linux Supremacy bullshit just further entrenches the idea that linux users are all sweaty basement nerds and turns the people that could actually benefit from ditching M$ Home for Mint away from all of us sweaty, arrogant losers.

    • @DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 days ago

      This community (we’re not that other site) has just delved into “windows bad” to the point of nauseating.

      Probably going to filter this now especially after that idiotic chart that showed windows 8 being better than 10 with Linux having absolutely no problems whatsoever

    • You don’t think that many people build their own Windows PCs? Linux gaming isn’t that old in the grand scheme of things, and there’s plenty of people who dual boot for various reasons.

      I’d almost be willing to bet that there are more people who’ve installed Windows on their PC than there are people who’ve installed Linux from a pure numbers standpoint.

      • @Redredme@lemmy.world
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        55 days ago

        I build my own systems. And I dont know what y’all are smoking but a typical windows installation has the complexity of opening a jar of pickles. Next next yes and away we go.

        Linux on the other hand…

        Now, if you want to debloat and install without a ms account then yes. But then… Really… Who does that? (i mean of the typical windows users

        • @Peasley@lemmy.world
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          14 days ago

          Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuse, Debian, Mint are also next, next, yes

          But those pickle jars also use your monitor’s native resolution

          Windows on the other hand…

        • @Gumus@lemmy.world
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          25 days ago

          Avoiding MS account and many manual parts of the installation (opting out of shit) is like two clicks in Rufus before installation. Everyone should do it.

        • @Ziglin@lemmy.world
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          15 days ago

          Installing endeavourOS was easier than Windows because of all the ads you need to bypass and the telemetry options on Windows. The partitioning options on endeavourOS were easier too plus if necessary one can use a browser. The only difficulty there was on EndeavourOS which the Windows installer didn’t have was picking a wm.

          That was the most complicated installer I’ve seen for a Linux distro beside arch32 which doesn’t even come with archinstall.

        • That’s what I’m saying. Windows installation is idiot-proof. And I’m sure there’s enough people who maintain their own systems or at the very least have had to install Windows for one reason or another that to say that “almost no one” who runs Windows installed it themselves is just the “Linux Master Race” talking.

      • @Jyek@sh.itjust.works
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        85 days ago

        Most gaming PCs are pre built. Boutiques have been a business for decades. And every major PC OEM has a gaming division.pc building is niche.

        • PC building is niche, yes, but do you think “almost no one” builds PCs, like OP said? And that’s not even including the people who’ve had to install Windows on a pre-built system for one reason or another.

          My point is that OP sounds like a smug Linux user shitting on people who use Windows. Even 5% of Windows users is too big a group of people to be described as “almost no one” simply because of how big the userbase is. That would be like saying, “Almost no one installs Linux” because Linux only makes up a small portion of the worldwide PC userbase.

    • @communism@lemmy.ml
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      15 days ago

      Almost no one using Windows installed it.

      I think Windows installs are really common, at least going off of the size of online gaming communities who generally build their own PCs.

  • Synapse
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    145 days ago

    Installing regular Windows 10/11 is definitely more than twice as painful than installing Debian 12.

    Once, I was trying to install Windows 10 and wasted an entire day! The installation would systematically fail at the beginning of the installation with a BS error message that doesn’t give any hint about what’s going wrong. In the end it just didn’t like USB3 as an installation media! I reflashed it to a USB2 and it worked, but OMG was it super slow ! It took literally hours to install !!!

    Debian, even as a noobie, you’ll go from flashing your ISO to a booted system within an hour. If you’ve done it once before, you will get it done in 20 minutes.

    • @lud@lemm.ee
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      35 days ago

      It works over USB 3.0, it sounds like you just have a broken or corrupt drive.

      • Synapse
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        5 days ago

        It normal does work with USB3, yes. And no, this pendrive works perfectly fine and I’ve used it to install many other OSes since.

        Edit: and I might add that I finally found the solution online so I was definitely not the only one confronted to this problem

    • @Eiri@lemmy.ca
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      65 days ago

      What the hell. I’ve never seen such an issue. Microsoft is so considerate; they provide us with cool little surprises like that from time to time. ♥️

      • @CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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        5 days ago

        I’ve seen it a lot (I do PC builds/repairs as a side gig). I just assume it will cause me grief from the start and keep both USB2 and USB3 sticks handy.

        To be fair I’ve had the issue with Unraid too, but only on one brand’s B450 motherboards in my testing. I didn’t have a whole bunch to try of course but MSI and Asus was fine, Gigabyte not. X570 didn’t have this problem in my experience.

  • @jaschen@lemm.ee
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    165 days ago

    Um… My grandma installed Windows 11 on her computer and then ran a simple script I gave her after. You guys are delusional.

  • @sfunk1x@lemmy.world
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    25 days ago

    Isn’t mint a downstream product of Ubuntu? I haven’t paid attention to them since they were distributing images from a compromised WordPress site years ago 😂

    Maybe I’ve been DDing Ubuntu for so long that I just couldn’t be bothered to try another distro based on it. I want to try a rolling release distro, but I’m too old to distro hop. All I care about is a functional system anymore.

    • AnimalsDream
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      25 days ago

      Have you installed it recently? They fixed the common annoyances like missing nonfree drivers.

  • @b34k@lemmy.world
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    65 days ago

    Where’s Arch if you don’t RTFM? (I mean we’ve got 2 windows install modes there… only fair)

    • Rolivers
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      15 days ago

      I’d say that is above windows. R-ing the FM is quite essential to arch or gentoo.

    • @Samsy@lemmy.ml
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      15 days ago

      Wait there is more, installing Arch with knowing about the existence of “archinstall” and without.

  • bwv1004
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    25 days ago

    So by linux, you mean not every open OS? Can we add freebsd? Not the easiest but lots of users willing to help on a forum post.

    • @communism@lemmy.ml
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      15 days ago

      Which one are you calling fringe? These are all popular distros, with the exception of maybe Gentoo but that’s still very well known even if not that many people daily drive it. Also still makes sense in this context to include a well known distro that’s also known for being relatively hard to install

  • Mint was super easy. I just had to scratch my head for two days trying to figure out why the keyboard didn’t work after coming out of suspend. Had something to do with it being in a USB 3.0 port. Once I plugged it into a 2.0-port it worked.

  • @rumba@lemmy.zip
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    25 days ago

    This is 100% true, but the chart inverts when you have a problem you’re trying to fix.