• @twinnie@feddit.uk
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    12 days ago

    Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine. What about clicking the download link on a webpage, clicking next a few times and having them software on your machine, compared to having to build something from GitHub (how many people here have never had to do that?).

    • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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      2511 days ago

      Unless you have a system without a GUI, you don’t need to open a terminal in order to update or install stuff. There is a GUI for that. And no, you don’t need to build stuff from GitHub for normal user stuff…

      • @Noobnarski@lemmy.world
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        411 days ago

        I tried that on linux, it doesn’t work if you want to do more than browse the web and other basic stuff.

        You can do some seriously advanced stuff on windows using only GUIs

        • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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          811 days ago

          We were talking about normal user stuff that normal users do, not “seriously advanced stuff”… And I agree that most normal users probably don’t want to use terminals because they are not familiar with them. But normal users probably don’t and shouldn’t do “seriously advanced stuff”, no?

          Yes, if you are trying to do “serously advanced stuff” (whatever that means), chances are you will probably need a terminal (or a terminal will at least be easier), but you shouldn’t be doing “seriously advanced stuff” unless you know what you are doing anyway…

          • @Noobnarski@lemmy.world
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            411 days ago

            I just wanted to install steam, but it wasn’t in the package manager list.

            Then I tried apt-get and that didnt work, I forgot why.

            You don’t have to do seriously advanced stuff on linux to run into issues without using the terminal.

            My point was, even if you actually do some advanced stuff on windows you still don’t have to use the terminal.

            It’s not realistic that you don’t have to use the terminal on linux if you want to do any more than web browsing and some text editing, etc.

            That doesn’t mean that linux is bad, but let’s be realistic about what it is.

            • @Tin@lemmy.world
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              511 days ago

              Weird, I would expect Steam to be in the Ubuntu repos (assuming that’s what you were using, since you mention apt), but maybe not. As for apt, or apt-get, they are just the terminal equivalent of the GUI package manager (synaptic? it’s been a minute since I ran ubuntu), so if something isn’t in the repos, apt at the terminal won’t find it either. If it’s not in the repos, you should be able to download and install steam from the website just like you would in windows. It gives you a .deb file which will launch just like an executable installer in Ubuntu. But to your point, yes, sometimes things in linux take a little extra thinking to get to work. Getting accustomed to the way Linux works can help overcome hiccups like this. Windows has many quirks as well, it’s just that if you use WIndows often you know your way around them.

            • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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              28 days ago

              I just wanted to install steam, but it wasn’t in the package manager list.

              Maybe you used Debian, which only allows free software in their default repo? But then you won’t be able to just install it with apt either. But even if it is not in the repository, you could still go on steam website and download the package from there, so literally the same experience as on windows…

              You don’t have to do seriously advanced stuff on linux to run into issues without using the terminal.

              Like what?

              It’s not realistic that you don’t have to use the terminal on linux if you want to do any more than web browsing and some text editing, etc.

              10 years ago, or maybe even 5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. Not anymore though, not if you use a half-way beginner friendly distro…

              • @Noobnarski@lemmy.world
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                27 days ago

                Yup, it was debian. I think I tried adding another repo, but gave up before I got it to work. I didn’t try to just download the file, because I had done that before and all I could do is extract whatever is inside the file, but not install it.

                It was around 2 years ago, maybe Linux has gotten that much more user friendly in the last two years, but I doubt it.

                • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  I use and love debian a lot for servers because it is super stable and relatively lightweight, but I definitely would not recommend it for desktops/notebooks, especially not to people new to linux based systems.

                  It’s super purist about foss, which means you only get free and open source software (no steam, discord, etc) per default and it uses an older kernel (which makes it more stable, but less feature rich and less compatible with new hardware).

                  If you use something like fedora, linux mint (as far as I heard) or even ubuntu, your experience would probably be a lot better.

            • @zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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              811 days ago

              That experience is highly dependent on the Linux distro you’re using. Steam comes preinstalled on gaming-centric distros like Nobara or Pop!_OS. More “general purpose” distros like Mint or Ubuntu might require adding an apt repository before you can install steam from their GUI package managers, but adding an apt repo can be easily accomplished with a GUI as well.

              Basically, if there’s no guide for installing steam for a given distro, or the process of installing steam is more than a couple easy steps, that specific distro probably isn’t well suited to run steam.

        • I have a lot more fun in my performance car avoiding the top gears, actually. Like after 3rd im already losing my licence on the spot and getting bent over by the law, higher gears are just that but worse.

        • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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          18 days ago

          Ok so what exactly is the big advantage you get when installing updates from a terminal as opposed to installing it via GUI? If I read your analogy, one could think it is faster, but I don’t think it is.

          • @sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz
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            8 days ago
            • update:

            Hotkey open terminal -> sudo apt update/upgrade -> done. Never had to touch the stupid mouse. Same with all sorts of tasks.

            • email:

            Hotkey open terminal -> neomutt -> quickly sort/delete/reply -> done. Never had to touch the stupid mouse.

            • file transfer:

            Hotkey open terminal -> scp <info> -> done. Never touched the mouse.

            and so on.

            If you like using a GUI, use a GUI. I’m not saying you can’t, but you sure are missing out on a lot of command-line awesomeness. I’ve never heard anyone argue that a GUI is quicker than command line, just more comfortable for a lot of neophytes. I mean, sure, gaming, browsing the web, graphics stuff, GUIs are great, if not essential.

            • @aski3252@lemmy.world
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              28 days ago

              On my private PC, I’m using a GUI/Mouse anyway (browsing, gaming, etc). I have to do 2 clicks to update.

              If I use terminal, I have to open terminal, then I have to either login as root or run update as sudo, which means I have to authenticate.

              If I already have an open terminal, I might be faster. Otherwise, I’m about as fast as with GUI. In any way, there is no significant benefit to updating software via terminal vs GUI, especially if you are an enduser who does not have significant experience with shells…

              For many tasks I agree that a shell is better and faster once you have basic knowledge for it, but it is a reality that many basic users are not used to using a shell or are even scared to use one… And at least since I’ve been use Fedora a couple of years ago, I think using a GUI for basic stuff is reasonably viable without having a significantly worse experience and not comparable with “not using all gears in a car”.

    • Farid
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      5512 days ago

      This applies to pretty much all “Linux good, Win/MacOS bad” memes. I just assume that people either aren’t really serious about them and it’s just tongue in cheek, or they don’t have any contact with regular people.

      I used to work as a(n assistant to the) sysadmin and the things I got called over never stopped to amaze. For instance, there was a case when software was updated on the work machines and I got called because some lady couldn’t use Adobe Acrobat. “It is asking me something, I don’t know what”. I come over and it’s just a TOS Accept/Decline window.

      Some people do not understand computers to an extent that they can lock up in a state of confusion when a button has been moved 100px in any direction from its usual position.

        • @oo1@lemmings.world
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          210 days ago

          Naah, i think they’re just ragebaiting all the MS fanboys.

          It works too judging by all the shit in this forum.

          The meme isn’t funny; but some of the reactions it provokes are hilarious. Though some of them are obviously counter-ragebait too. “Akshually i never have to restart to update windows since 2008”. :)

    • fmstrat
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      1311 days ago

      Let’s also not conflate “ease” with historical behavior.

      Taking previous experience out of the equation, it is easier to type apt upgrade and reboot to update your entire system than to click through 300 times in the system and multiple apps with reboots.

      That is a fact.

        • fmstrat
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          711 days ago

          Huh? 3 clicks to update Windows, Adobe, Office, that random text editor, VSCode, Steam, on and on and on…

          • Buelldozer
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            311 days ago
            1. Open powershell
            2. Type Winget upgrade --all
            3. Hit enter.

            It’s the same as most Linux distros, just different commands / syntax.

            • fmstrat
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              411 days ago

              Huh, looks like that would do my list above except the Adobe Suite. A shame that’s not on by default. Good info.

            • @InFerNo@lemmy.ml
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              111 days ago

              Cool, if this works like how you are implying, then this is going to make my life a bit easier.

    • @iopq@lemmy.world
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      311 days ago

      Most normal people only ever use the browser. Even image or video editing is niche for the average person

    • babybus
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      1311 days ago

      Let’s not cherrypick scenarios to try and pretend Linux is easier than Windows. Most normal people are…

      Let’s not cherry pick users then. I don’t care about your normal users. My experience is better on Linux.

      • @octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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        11 days ago

        Let’s not cherry pick users then. I don’t care about your normal users. My experience is better on Linux.

    • @Ooops@feddit.org
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      711 days ago

      Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options

      Sadly no. They should be nervous if it’s about making changes to their system. In reality however Windows conditioned them to just click the button labeled “Yes” or “Okay” without even reading the pop-up in the first place.

    • @prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      2911 days ago

      Most normal people are nervous interacting with a GUI pop-up that gives them two options, never mind putting them into a terminal window where they could seriously fuck up their machine

      Maybe this is a problem that we should be addressing, rather than just making technology more of a black box, and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works.

      • @twinnie@feddit.uk
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        110 days ago

        But this is the classic Linux user mentality; Linux shouldn’t get easier, users should get smarter.

        If computers can be easier to use then why should people instead sacrifice loads of time learning how to operate them? Most people have other things to be getting on with.

      • @Exec@pawb.social
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        811 days ago

        and raising generations of people who have no fucking concept of how any of it works

        Only two generations were got to be technologically literate.

        • KSP Atlas
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          111 days ago

          Greatest and Silent generations helped create computing, Boomers helped create important software such as DOS, Gen X and Millennials helped develop the Web, Gen Z is still going into computing and development jobs and Gen Alpha is too young to consider

      • @InFerNo@lemmy.ml
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        211 days ago

        If you have a driver’s license, do you know a car works besides the basic maintenance that is checking your oil and keeping the tires inflated? Some people don’t even do that last one, while it’s a thing you should check regularly.

        I think it’s a good thing the general public is able to use a computer without knowing the inner workings, but it also shouldn’t be obscured from them if they want to know/learn.

  • @ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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    1510 days ago

    IDK, but I more often had issues with installing apps to Linux than to Windows, usually dependency-hell related ones, but once I had trouble enabling snap on Linux Mint.

  • @madcaesar@lemmy.world
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    3310 days ago

    When you make fun of something that really isn’t an issue it just makes your side look worse. Windows has real problems, but installing shit ain’t it.

    My dad can install anything on windows with clicks, he can’t do shit with a terminal.

    I’m a power user and love GUIs. I’ll use git desktop all day everyday, instead of typing shit in a command line. It’s one button press vs typing paths and hoping you don’t misspell shit.

    I don’t really get the whole command line fetish, there are no extra points in life for doing things the harder way.

    • @bradd@lemmy.world
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      310 days ago

      Power users are just regular users with an ego.

      GUI is like fast food, sure you can eat it and enjoy it, and you will live to see another day, but it’s inferior in every way to everything else. The real problem is that people start acting like fast food is the default food and start looking at people who eat raw or cook their own food or pay for food at a restaurant as being full of themselves.

      There are countless real advantages to CLI over GUI, but allowing people to use their computer effectively by fumbling around isn’t one of them.

    • @Prok@lemmy.world
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      49 days ago

      The GUI app centers on most distros are quite usable without command line wizardry and reduces the risk of dodgey download sites

    • Ah, yes. I also love it when I search for firefox on my new PC with Edge (without adblocker) and get sponsored malware in the results.

      I still use windows but I think installing software on Linux is way more convenient. Especially with the AUR.

    • @thevoidzero@lemmy.world
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      10 days ago

      A simple analogy is, would you rather have keyboard with a-z and symbols you can use to build words/sentences, or would you want a wordlist you can scroll and click, while expanding words in groups, and having to find non-frequent words with a lot of difficulty to make up sentences.

      Command line use is harder if you come from gui. But the main use case of command line are:

      • automation: anything you can do in a command line, can be copied in a script,
      • uniformity: every software now has almost the same format of use,
      • flexibility: gui almost always has less options than command line, and many times options are hidden within a lot of tabs and options.
      • Auto complete: whenever someone complains about terminal being hard to use and spelling mistakes I think about this. I think many people that come from GUI don’t know about auto-completion on terminal. It’s easy to see which options are available, easy to choose files, wildcards for multiple files, and all that
      • piping: command line allows you to chain one command with another. You have a command to list all your music files, chain that with a search command to search files within them. Now if you need to search in a python code, you use the same search command, just different command to read the file. You basically have lego blocks (old ones) that can be used to make anything.

      I can understand people being afraid of command line when they start, but I think many people come with biases and don’t use good terminal and other tools to make things easier.

    • @Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
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      410 days ago

      Yay -S app is hard? Or apt install app? Or flatpak?

      Being used to a habit doesnt make the habit the default way. Humans adapt quickly.

  • @VonVoelksen@discuss.tchncs.de
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    1112 days ago

    I don’t like windows either, but updating with Winget in terminal works pretty good. Not as good as with Linux, but better than downloading every app via browser.

  • @PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world
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    1511 days ago

    I don’t know about all the arguing and snark, but… I’ve been using Ubuntu (laugh it up) on my work laptop for the last 3ish years, and the vast majority of the time it really is “click install updates. wait 2 minutes. ok every program on your computer is up to date, just don’t forget to restart Firefox”. Can’t think of a time where updating sucked. Sometimes I even go through the terminal just because it makes me feel cool to be a hackerman.

    I dread updating my windows pc at home. Cuts into my WoW time too much.

    • @PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world
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      211 days ago

      Coincidentally my windows PC needed to update when I got back to it. It took like 15 minutes and 2 restarts. I legit pulled out my Ubuntu laptop and Sudo apt-get upgraded that bitch just to flex on Bill Gates.

    • NekuSoul
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      811 days ago

      I’ve switched over a year ago and that’s the thing that, looking back, sticks out to me the most as well. It’s just insane that practically every application I used had its own update routine. Lesser used apps I had to update every single time before using them. Just constant interruptions everywhere.

      Winget is a step in the right directions, but it still has to build upon and work around that same shaky foundation, and it shows.

  • @hinterlufer@lemmy.world
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    somepackage requires otherpackage version >10.1.79

    otherpackage is already at latest version

    Have fun compiling it yourself and messing up what is managed by the package manager and what’s not. And don’t forget that the update might break some other package along the way

    • @dan@upvote.au
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      211 days ago

      I sometimes just give up and use Docker or a Flatpak (depending on if it’s a CLI or GUI app)

    • TunaCowboy
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      311 days ago

      Most of the time you can just download a release and place the binary in path (or a symlink).

      Compiling it yourself should not ‘messing up’ anything, it should build locally:

      ./configure
      make -j$(nproc)
      

      Now it’s just built, nothing on your system has changed. make install will place requisite files where they need to go, but this generally configurable via prefix or equivalent. You may need to install dependencies, but that’s usually a simple exercise in reading the output from the configuration step.

      Compiling software is easy as fuck and is incredibly flexible.

    • CronyAkatsuki
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      1512 days ago

      If your distro maintainer’s do a good job, that situation never happen’s.

      Or just use gentoo where that problem doensn’t exist at all.

      • Farid
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        12 days ago

        Don’t use apostrophes wherever you see an “s” at the end of a word. If you’re unsure about whether or not to use an apostrophe, just don’t. Because statistically, there are far fewer cases where you need 'em than there are cases where you don’t. Plus if you missed the apostrophe where it should be, people will just assume you didn’t bother to type it or it was a typo. Whereas if you do type it where it shouldn’t be, it’s a clear case of “this person doesn’t know how apostrophes work”.

          • Farid
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            311 days ago

            There’s no need to get upset, the entire comment was typed on a keyboard; I didn’t say a word.

    • @prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Huh, pacman always seemed to automatically work out those dependency loops, or whatever you want to call them, when I was on EndeavourOS. The only time I had an issue with updating was when I went like two weeks without updating, and then ran out of harddrive space halfway through installing the 600 updates.

      I’ve been running Bazzite for several months now, and updating is absurdly easy and unintrusive. It’s basically impossible to fuckup (and if you do, it’s extremely simple to rollback). I can really see immutable/atomic being the future of Linux.

      • @hinterlufer@lemmy.world
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        111 days ago

        Well not if you’re on Ubuntu and need the latest version of e.g. npm for some nvim plugin, because that version is not in the repository.

  • @BatrickPateman@lemmy.world
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    612 days ago

    Windows side of things is getting better though, thanks to winget. Not perfect and it f’s up with certain packages but already a lot better than updating by hand.

    • Rikj000
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      1012 days ago

      Windows is not getting better,
      CoPilot, Recall, all more unwanted spyware…

      UniGetUI is a good way to maintain software on Windows in a Linux fashion through package managers,
      however that does not change that the underlying OS is pure spyware.

  • @IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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    511 days ago

    You people always come off as old people on infomercials.

    Anyways Linus desktop is a mess. You are delusional if you think it’s easier. Maybe more efficient workflows for certain things but easier is a lol.

    • @tsugu@slrpnk.net
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      211 days ago

      I appreciate Linux for how well it can handle single-purpose tasks, like if I wanted a media centre or such, but after daily driving it for 3 years on my Desktop I’ve had enough. Anyone who thinks it’s easy has a lot of spare time they wish to invest into a thing that’s supposed to just work.

      • @IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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        311 days ago

        I love it for long running services eg *ardar + Plex but the desktop is nearly unusable.

        Ubuntu out of the box requires you to install pulse audio, grab your device id via cli, and then run a script at bottom to set that device as the default speaker.

        Ubuntu out of the box needs scripting just to deal with an audio source that gets turned off and on. And zealots will scream it’s ready for everyone on steam to use.

    • @gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      511 days ago

      Anyways Linus desktop is a mess. You are delusional if you think it’s easie

      Use it before saying shit that’s so blatantly stupid

      • @IsThisAnAI@lemmy.world
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        211 days ago

        Have a nix box upstairs. It’s much more of a pain in the ass than any windows install. Year of the Linux desktop in year 20xx 🤣

    • @frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe
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      511 days ago

      Winget-ui is great, except Microsoft hasn’t figured out to conceptually make two installs of the same product get treated the same – absolutely pathetic that if you install VLC from their website you can never ever ever use Winget VLC without uninstalling the other.

      • @QuazarOmega@lemy.lol
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        111 days ago

        That does work for me in general, might be a problem with the specific app where the 2 builds are somehow incompatible

      • @InFerNo@lemmy.ml
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        111 days ago

        Android has that issue too. Can’t install the same app via fdroid and play store. Sounds logical though. Even Arch pacman won’t continue of it detects existing files it doesn’t know about.

      • @dan@upvote.au
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        311 days ago

        You need to update a bunch of separate things on Linux too, though. For example, apt or dnf, rpms and debs that aren’t in a repo (although Deb-get handles some of those), Flatpak, Snap, fwupd for firmware, plus language-specific things (npm, dotnet, cargo, Python, etc). At least the UIs handle a lot of it now.

        • @iopq@lemmy.world
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          411 days ago

          That’s why I use NixOS. 100,000 packages so you really found something niche if it didn’t have it

  • ohhh this one hit a nerve. the butthurt windows users community is out in full force :D And there are still Stockholm syndrome victims delusional enough to think that Windows is easier to install / maintain without realizing that the only thing that has them insist is habit.

      • @Tin@lemmy.world
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        511 days ago

        Most games on Steam work just fine when you turn on Proton. Gaming on linux has come a long way.

      • GladiusB
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        311 days ago

        I mean they are. I game constantly and use a Linux only machine. The only games that don’t work are crappy anti cheat games from Epic. And they are crappy. So who cares?

        I duel booted just for those and it wasn’t worth the headache. Linux is far superior in every way.

      • @lancalot@discuss.online
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        11 days ago

        Honestly, in terms of ease to play, SteamOS (or clones like Bazzite) don’t do under fall short of Windows. Heck, I’d argue they might even be easier.

        The real issue is anti-cheat. But that’s just the next hurdle we’ll have to overcome.


        Edit: TIL that the expression “to do under” has no place in English.

          • @lancalot@discuss.online
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            11 days ago

            Apologies. Allow me to clarify.

            I meant that it’s not harder than Windows, when it comes to playing games. And I even made that claim stronger by proclaiming that it’s probably even easier.

            Edit: SteamOS is the operating system found on the Steam Deck. It’s basically Arch Linux (btw), but with Valve’s (very) special sauce. It’s what you’d expect from your average game console; which is a good thing*.

        • Another alternative for your expression might be ‘to do less’ as i steamos doesn’t do less than windows. Or ‘do worse than’. I would say even ‘steamos doesnt under-do windows in terms of gaming’ would work but it sounds more awkward. Mind if i ask what language the expression ‘do under’ is from? Its neat, i like it. English sucks in a lot of ways. Also agree with everything you said about OSes. I had tried linux in the past but mostly stuck to windows for gaming, then i got a steam deck and ill never install windows ever again.

          • @lancalot@discuss.online
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            111 days ago

            Or ‘do worse than’.

            I think I like this one as well. Basically, as you’ll see later on, the expression is (probably) best translated as ‘to be inferior’. Combined with the negation that’s brought with “don’t”, we could rephrase the sentence as ‘Honestly, in terms of ease to play, SteamOS (or clones like Bazzite) aren’t inferior to Windows.’.

            ‘steamos doesnt under-do windows in terms of gaming’

            Another one that I like 😜. But, the double ‘do’ is indeed a bit awkward.

            Mind if i ask what language the expression ‘do under’ is from?

            Sure! It’s an expression found in Dutch. Heck, to be more precise, it’s a verb that can be split: ‘onderdoen’, but also ‘doen onder’. The literal translation would be, as you’d expect ‘underdo’ or ‘do under’. Here’s the (English) wiktionary entry.

            Also agree with everything you said about OSes. I had tried linux in the past but mostly stuck to windows for gaming, then i got a steam deck and ill never install windows ever again.

            Valve has truly outdone itself. While I only started using Linux after Proton’s release, the horror stories from the pre-Proton era still send shivers down my spine.

    • JaggedRobotPubes
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      111 days ago

      This kind of reads as being addicted to the smell of your own farts?

      Nothing in that godawful, arcane, confusing black screen with white text is ever going to be better than clicking on buttons that have English words I can actually understand.

      If you were raised by the matrix and like doing things the hard way with memorized commands, that’s fine with me and kind of cool in a way, but it is definitely the hard way.

  • M137
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    611 days ago

    The Windows updating experience, both the system and apps via the Microsoft Store is so fucking bad it’s unbelievable. Shit just stops working all the time, updates fail, grinds the whole system to a halt etc.

    For several years now I’ve been unable to update apps in the Microsoft store in one go, I have to open it, click “get updates” and the circular progression bar goes to about 1/5 and then just stops. So I have to close the app, wait a few minutes, open it again and then press the “play” button for every single app that has updates for the download to actually start, nothing else works. It’s been the same for Windows 10 and 11 across four different computers.

    There was a Windows 10 update several months ago, might even have been last year that just failed for a ton of people and it took months before it was fixed.

    • @ALoafOfBread@lemmy.ml
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      211 days ago

      That’s actually a major reason I switched to linux. Windows security update kept failing with no solution for like 6mos. Afaik there is still no solution.

  • @tehn00bi@lemmy.world
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    1511 days ago

    Been using Linux off and on since 2003-ish. I remember the days of having to compile applications and having to download various dependencies. Linux now is so streamlined and easy. Minus gentoo.

    • @Hawk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      1512 days ago

      Winget sucks ass. Fails half of the time, lists way too much I did not install through Winget m, even had apps broken because of bad updates through Winget.

      Never had these problems with scoop or chocolatey though.

      • @dan@upvote.au
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        411 days ago

        lists way too much I did not install through Winget

        That’s one of the features though. You can update apps via Winget even if you didn’t originally install them via Winget.

      • @GetOffMyLan@programming.dev
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        612 days ago

        That sucks. I use it to handle all software on my work dev machine and haven’t had any issues so far. We basically use it to set up clean machines and it’s worked perfectly so far.

    • @Shardikprime@lemmy.world
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      411 days ago

      Literally

      My desktop/laptop experience for both is as follows:

      Windows update, at least since the inception of the concept has never required me to go to a browser (unless you count w98 “everything is a website” concept for the desktop or the far in between instances were a PC was offline/having issues and you need to download update packages)

      It also updated windows applications (ie office) but yeah it never intended to upgrade other stuff, all other software had their own auto update check

      I’ll concede the restart because yeah it does all for that

      But yeah Linux install is not without issues, and I’ll just remind everyone of how difficult it was/is to install a component driver when it’s not automatically found (wifi cards, disk controllers, and Realtek drivers anyone?)

      Yeah it does update your apps, as long as you have the repos, and restart wise I distinctively remember that you do need to do restarts after updates, be it major distro or not.

      Simple commands? I’ll concede that, as long as we remember the average Linux user is used to a less user friendly experience. Complain ask you want but for the average user, windows update experience works

      Thankfully I don’t need to deal with all that stuff now

        • NVIDIA is the second biggest wankstain of a thing on my computer, unfortunately AMD didn’t put high end GPUs in laptops so there wasn’t a whole lot of choice.

      • @FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi
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        110 days ago

        Windows update, at least since the inception of the concept has never required me to go to a browser

        In xp it still was an website which required IE due to activex used to do the updates.

      • @InFerNo@lemmy.ml
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        111 days ago

        I maintain a bunch of PC’s and 2 of them won’t update anymore with some vague error code that only has a microsoft community forum post as search result. I’ll get it fixed, but Windows update is not quite flawless and a non tech person would be lost at this point.

        People seem to be having a hard time grasping that most of the time it works great on both Windows and Linux. Majority of people will have a solid experience. But on both platforms, when things go to shit, you need to get your hands dirty. And with that final thought, I like to add that because of it’s openness, is usually easier to troubleshoot an issue on Linux because it doesn’t obscure what it’s doing unlike Windows (“Please wait…”, “Setting things up”, … dafuq u doin, it says 100%, is it doing anything still or is it hanging?). Windows’ vagueness has been a pet peeve of mine and it’s only getting worse. I’m perfectly ok shielding it by default, but give me a verbose option.

    • @Zink@programming.dev
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      1411 days ago

      Eh, Windows complaints tend to get pretty hyperbolic much of the time. It’s slow and annoying but I’ve always worked with it

      But the description of the Linux update process matches my experience with mint, pretty much. I even use the GUI update utility because it will put a little icon in the bottom corner of the screen. It’s quick even if I’m using a program that’s going an update, and if the kernel gets updated it’s just like “hey remember to reboot buddy!”

    • @needanke@feddit.org
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      11 days ago

      Besides missing dependencies or repositories for more nice software this kinda closely matches my experience though.

      (Ignoring winget, becaust it is not really the mainstream way to install windows software)

      What is your specific issue with this?

        • @needanke@feddit.org
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          1311 days ago

          I still (have to) download scetchy executables on Windows when I want to install most programms, while on debian I can install most programs via apt and a few repositories. Even when it’s not a standard repo I still prefer it over random executables because while the security is just as bad at least I get updates without having to open the program itself.

          But what resonated with me most have been the restarts for updates. Happened way to often that I wanted to stop working but cant just shut down windows without updates and the accompanying reboots. (If I don’t check up in between to decrypt the disk on startups it’ll just sit there and run out the battery and I have to do the restarts on the next workday). On debian I just klick the power button, it hibernates (or I shut it down if I’m in the mood) and os updates are completely seperate from that.

          • @frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe
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            1211 days ago

            What sketchy executables are you downloading?

            What makes downloading steam from valve more sketchy than allowing a Linux repo to run arbitrary code as root on your machine for every single one of thousands of pieces of software maintained by strangers?

            • @iopq@lemmy.world
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              311 days ago

              I remember going to source forge to download MPC-BE

              Later found out that they were adding adware to executables

            • @InFerNo@lemmy.ml
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              111 days ago

              All software is maintained by strangers.

              Some software websites just look sketchy but aren’t, which makes it harder for people to filter out the actual sketchy ones. That’s just the reality. Jokes about download pages with 4 download buttons also didn’t come falling out of the sky.