Lol, Linux literally owns the server space, windows owns the desktop space, what exactly does MacOS Own exactly? If best means most pretentious then sure.
I would concur. You can record high quality encoded audio on your iPhone, audio design on your iPad with your other samples, and add the mixed soundscape into your film on iMac.
I literally know someone in the media industry who’s whole effortless workflow is what makes him a go-to guy for quick and flexible turnaround for audio mastery for films. He works exclusively on apple devices for this exact reason.
I’m not saying it’s impossible another way, but he really likes the ecosystem.
I would entirely agree with this, having watch BBC, NatGeo, History Channel, and more media people who love GDrives, only use Macs, filmed deliverables on iPhone, want Mac Pros for editing etc.
At this point I’d call it more of a legacy approach - they definitely still control the space, but the workflow is quite easily accomplished on other systems.
I’d also add many (SO MANY) of the pro audio and video systems out there are also running Linux, so even with sa mac-focused workflow, many of the pros out there are using Linux (often without any clue that they are).
So to me its similar to Windows on the desktop - its not necessarily the best option in all cases, but its often the path of least resistance. As a result, pretty much all of them buy into an Apple ecosystem from the get-go.
Doesn’t change the reality of production though when it comes to audio and video though. Final Cut started getting… Problematic in flow some years back, Adobe started to make moves before they, you know, did what Adobe does, and BlackMagic bought DaVinci about 15 years ago actually.
At this point, the only places I know of that are using final cut or premiere in their workflow do so for legacy reasons. Many have shifted to resolve, which works quite beautifully on Linux. In the smaller shop realm for audio, reaper is king (which also works beautifully on Linux).
The “need” for a Mac there is pure fabrication.
For modeling, pros are probably using Houdini, though I’d say blender just behind that. Both of which - again, Linux.
About the only thing I can think of where pros are consistently using something not Linux friendly in the creative world is photo editing (Photoshop of course).
Now I will say that pretty much anything a pro shop will use will work on a Mac, and that is to me the main reason they are still at the top. Plus the weird Apple fanboy/elitism that developed around it.
Houdini is mostly used for simulations and procedural modeling. For manual modeling Z-Brush and Maya are still king, especially at the big game studios. Blender is mostly used by indies and students. You couldn’t buy support until recent years so big studios have steered away from using Blender.
There are some animation houses that use their own proprietary software on Linux. Like Pixar has Presto. Though Disney’s own studio uses Maya.
Wasn’t thinking in terms of gaming, but yeah that’s true. Plus you’ll see Rhino and the like especially with architectural renders, I’m painting with a broad brush here.
FWIW, Final Cut has gotten a lot better in the last few years. They have walked back pretty much everything from X at this point. I still have not switched back from Premiere and Resolve though. I don’t trust them.
But like it or not, Macs are industry standard and people expect you to use them. Them’s the breaks.
I still have not switched back from Premiere and Resolve though. I don’t trust them.
That is what a lot of folks are still saying (from my purely anecdotal experience).
I don’t think macs are going away FWIW, just saying that its not at all necessary for the overwhelming majority of workflows I’ve come across. Especially with so many internal corp studios being happy with a blackmagic body in their kit.
I was in art school around then and a good portion of us were pirating windows 98 or windows NT. And we were running pirated Photoshop and pirated Illustrator on it…a lot of us pirated everything.
But it would be a stretch to say that support is the result of current macOS. The Mac has always been popular with creatives, since way before it was UNIX-based.
I’d argue the popularity with creatives is largely from being marketed to creatives since its earliest days.
I don’t think it’s just marketing, the early Macs got a lot of performance out of their graphics routines, and then Mac OS had tight integrations with postscript which made it good for graphical design.
I think these days yes a powerful graphics card will get you very far, but overall macOS feels much less hostile to me than windows. I think Linux is kind of a mess for graphics stuff, there are a few good open source tools, but the major design suites aren’t well supported.
but overall macOS feels much less hostile to me than windows.
Sure, but this is a purely subjective measure. Same with Linux.
And the fact is, the Mac has been consistently marketed to creatives since its inception. It is, at the very least, difficult to see how it would have fared without that approach.
I believe you, but so far I can spot AI art from a mile away. When I do, I just hit the back button. It’s not interesting. It’s okay when it’s used as a joke for memes. Maybe it’s going to look different in the real world on an advertisement or something. But, really, if I can spot it in the real world, I’ll think the product is fake. I’m definitely the type of person who wont buy if I think that. I’m sure that’s not everybody but, if it is a good percentage is, I’d say companies are going to want to pay real artists. Interesting to see where it all goes.
Designer here. This is true, but they are also have a seriously good trackpad and good energy use (finally). They work well for design, video and audio, but they are also really nice to operate. It’s a bit like driving a very nice car (which I can’t afford, but have borrowed from a client). Once you get accustomed to it, every other computer—especially laptops—feel like 1980s GM econoboxes.
That’s good, how is the support in apps though? I live and die by pinch zooming and quick easy accurate scrolling/panning/rotating in Fusion and most of my graphics apps.
Side note, there are some really nice Mac only or Mac centric graphics apps that are affordable and not shitty subscriptions like the adobe suite. Pixelmator and Sketch are big for my photo retouching and UI designs.
Everything that is professionally rendered is offloaded to purpose built hardware. This part of the workflow would not be any different no matter what the creative is using for their workstation.
Sure, in a big 3d animation team, I’m basically a solo animator working with the tools I have immediately on hand. If I had a 5000 GPU Render Farm, then yeah, a Mac as a work station might work, but I’d still rather have a beefier customizable workstation than a Mac.
As someone in the video and audio production sphere professionally, you are 100% correct. I have a Mac desktop that I use for any work I do, but I run Mint on a notebook for my own purposes.
I mean, they kind of have to be pretty good to entice you into the walled garden to begin with. Get people in the door with a smooth, super-polished experience, and then you’ve already got plenty of them pretty well won over. You’ll lose some users with previous experience with another OS to “It doesn’t work the way it did on $ancient_version of $OS, I hate it,” that go back, some just get tired of the same thing and want to try something new, and others that hit the walls of the garden and decide they want out. If it was straight garbage and restrictive, on top of being expensive, nobody would hang around until they got comfortable enough that overcoming the friction of changing was a real obstacle to switching.
There’s just a disproportionate representation of folks like myself in tech communities versus the general population who are opposed to any walled garden, no matter how polished, when there exist a free alternative.
it’s very popular with developers due to being a turnkey posix environment. given the choice between mac and windows for development, i would go with mac every time. it’s not my personal first choice but it’s tolerable.
I would say thats mostly because of Company policies since devs would use the same tools you would use in a linux box. As an Android Developer and CICD Manager I really hate that I have to use a MacBook Pro when a good ol Thinkpad would be more than sufficient.
I would say thats mostly because of Company policies since devs would use the same tools you would use in a linux box.
Not at all the case for me and for other devs where I work. We can freely choose to run Linux, and some people do (mostly backend devs). M-series MacBooks dominate though because of the simple fact that they are just so much more powerful than the alternatives.
Since you’re doing Android development, you’re probably saving some very significant amount of compile time, if you’re running an M-series MacBook Pro.
When the M1 was released there were actually stories of companies sidestepping normal device replacement policies and upgrading all mobile devs to M1s because of the time savings involved, which should tell you something about the power in these machines.
Since the release of the M-series, the MacBook Pros have gone from being primarily a fashion item to becoming primarily a tool for work - someone made the apt comparison that the previous MacBooks were trying to be Lamborghinis - pretty to look at at the expense of functionality, while the M-series are tractors - tools to accomplish jobs.
Let’s be real here, the vast majority of developers are not the type of person to want to dig into the depths of their computer. Then just want something that works so they can write their code.
They may have started that way, but doing a hobby as your job will kill almost all interest you have in it.
I mean, yeah sure, but do you think that every linux user distro hops (especially on company time) and tinkers with dot files all the time? Eventually the linux user will settle down to their preferred config, store it on their source control and be done with it.
On the other hand you have MacOS where you can customise uh… darkmode or lightmode with an accent color (okay thats the same with GNOME) and perhaps your shell of choice but thats it.
I don’t think half of our devs have even changed their wallpaper. They’ll set the UI to dark mode, and that’s about it for the OS. They’ll tweak their IDEs a decent bit, but OS wise they really don’t seem to care.
Same. We have an iOS build, and it turns out you can only debug iOS apps on macOS.
Other than that, none of my job needs macOS, and I honestly hate macOS, but it’s what we standardized on due to iOS support, though we really only need one or two macOS devices because 99% of our app is the same across platforms.
The “luxury” space. It’s overpriced hardware with an honestly relatively pretty aesthetic and the OS has so many guardrails they’re hard to really mess up, and when someone does mess it up, apple stores are ubiquitous enough that its a pretty quick trip to get it fixed. Perfect for people with a bit more money than sense who don’t want to or have the time/ability to figure out how to properly use a more flexible OS that requires a bit more knowhow to use and not break.
If you’re memory bound then sure, you can get way more bang for your buck with Intel/AMD. But for pretty amazing CPU performance I think the “Apple is overpriced” trope isn’t really true any more.
It comes and goes… When the original MacBooks came out, especially with the Core 2 Duo, they were actually competitive with other manufacturers… Then the value started to lower until it wasn’t competitive anymore.
CPU isn’t the only specs I’m looking for, supporting a beefy graphic card for 3d rendering is also a must, at least for me to quickly get renders done, and dollar for dollar, getting a customized computer running windows will take me much farther and faster than any Mac will.
Sure the CPU might be amazing but CPU isn’t the only important part of a computer.
I’m old enough to remember when people thought OSX Server was a competitive option because it was technically “unix”. Needless to say, once people figured out Apple was using Linux for their own servers, despite numerous attempts to switch over to OSX Server. OSX Server went tits up. Apparently OSX Server hung around as an addon to OSX for casual use.
Linux owns more than server/web space. It’s everywhere. A lot of IoT is Linux too. Also drones, router, switches, NASs, smart white goods, cars, etc, often have Linux in somewhere too. TVs were Linux, but are now Android, which is Linux but not GNU/Linux. Basically user facing Linux is often Android, though not the Steam Deck.
BSD and other permissively licenced code is used a load in games. PS4-PS5 are FreeBSD based I think. GCC is often the compiler used for these platforms. Though maybe Clang + LVM now. So loads of FOSS is used, but these is little community participation. That what non-copyleft allows. Maybe it’s better now. I left games over 12 years ago now and not really following.
Lol, Linux literally owns the server space, windows owns the desktop space, what exactly does MacOS Own exactly? If best means most pretentious then sure.
I would argue macOS owns the creative space (Design, Art and Music)
I would concur. You can record high quality encoded audio on your iPhone, audio design on your iPad with your other samples, and add the mixed soundscape into your film on iMac.
I literally know someone in the media industry who’s whole effortless workflow is what makes him a go-to guy for quick and flexible turnaround for audio mastery for films. He works exclusively on apple devices for this exact reason.
I’m not saying it’s impossible another way, but he really likes the ecosystem.
I would entirely agree with this, having watch BBC, NatGeo, History Channel, and more media people who love GDrives, only use Macs, filmed deliverables on iPhone, want Mac Pros for editing etc.
At this point I’d call it more of a legacy approach - they definitely still control the space, but the workflow is quite easily accomplished on other systems.
I’d also add many (SO MANY) of the pro audio and video systems out there are also running Linux, so even with sa mac-focused workflow, many of the pros out there are using Linux (often without any clue that they are).
So to me its similar to Windows on the desktop - its not necessarily the best option in all cases, but its often the path of least resistance. As a result, pretty much all of them buy into an Apple ecosystem from the get-go.
15 years ago you would get laughed out of art school if you didn’t have a Mac. At least that’s the gist I get from my artistic friends.
Probably still the same today.
Doesn’t change the reality of production though when it comes to audio and video though. Final Cut started getting… Problematic in flow some years back, Adobe started to make moves before they, you know, did what Adobe does, and BlackMagic bought DaVinci about 15 years ago actually.
At this point, the only places I know of that are using final cut or premiere in their workflow do so for legacy reasons. Many have shifted to resolve, which works quite beautifully on Linux. In the smaller shop realm for audio, reaper is king (which also works beautifully on Linux).
The “need” for a Mac there is pure fabrication.
For modeling, pros are probably using Houdini, though I’d say blender just behind that. Both of which - again, Linux.
About the only thing I can think of where pros are consistently using something not Linux friendly in the creative world is photo editing (Photoshop of course).
Now I will say that pretty much anything a pro shop will use will work on a Mac, and that is to me the main reason they are still at the top. Plus the weird Apple fanboy/elitism that developed around it.
Houdini is mostly used for simulations and procedural modeling. For manual modeling Z-Brush and Maya are still king, especially at the big game studios. Blender is mostly used by indies and students. You couldn’t buy support until recent years so big studios have steered away from using Blender.
There are some animation houses that use their own proprietary software on Linux. Like Pixar has Presto. Though Disney’s own studio uses Maya.
Wasn’t thinking in terms of gaming, but yeah that’s true. Plus you’ll see Rhino and the like especially with architectural renders, I’m painting with a broad brush here.
FWIW, Final Cut has gotten a lot better in the last few years. They have walked back pretty much everything from X at this point. I still have not switched back from Premiere and Resolve though. I don’t trust them.
But like it or not, Macs are industry standard and people expect you to use them. Them’s the breaks.
That is what a lot of folks are still saying (from my purely anecdotal experience).
I don’t think macs are going away FWIW, just saying that its not at all necessary for the overwhelming majority of workflows I’ve come across. Especially with so many internal corp studios being happy with a blackmagic body in their kit.
I was in art school around then and a good portion of us were pirating windows 98 or windows NT. And we were running pirated Photoshop and pirated Illustrator on it…a lot of us pirated everything.
Pirating Windows 98/NT in 2010? Seems a little late for that, no?
deleted by creator
That’s contrary to what my people have said.
deleted by creator
What years were you in art school? We’re talking 20-15 years ago.
So you’re saying only cheap profit driven productions use Mac?
Only partially true. VFX for example uses Linux quite a bit, and a lot of web devs use Linux too, or even Windows with WSL.
But it would be a stretch to say that support is the result of current macOS. The Mac has always been popular with creatives, since way before it was UNIX-based.
I’d argue the popularity with creatives is largely from being marketed to creatives since its earliest days.
For sure the commenter was just asking what space MacOS owns
I don’t think it’s just marketing, the early Macs got a lot of performance out of their graphics routines, and then Mac OS had tight integrations with postscript which made it good for graphical design.
I think these days yes a powerful graphics card will get you very far, but overall macOS feels much less hostile to me than windows. I think Linux is kind of a mess for graphics stuff, there are a few good open source tools, but the major design suites aren’t well supported.
Ecosystem capture and youth indoctrination into the walled garden. Mac is great as long as you never push on Tim Cook’s boundaries.
Sure, but this is a purely subjective measure. Same with Linux.
And the fact is, the Mac has been consistently marketed to creatives since its inception. It is, at the very least, difficult to see how it would have fared without that approach.
deleted by creator
AI art won’t do shit except boot people out of jobs that would require a real artist but won’t have too many people complaining if it is obvious goo.
As for open-source art tools, krita is fantastic and gets used by a lot of professionals.
I believe you, but so far I can spot AI art from a mile away. When I do, I just hit the back button. It’s not interesting. It’s okay when it’s used as a joke for memes. Maybe it’s going to look different in the real world on an advertisement or something. But, really, if I can spot it in the real world, I’ll think the product is fake. I’m definitely the type of person who wont buy if I think that. I’m sure that’s not everybody but, if it is a good percentage is, I’d say companies are going to want to pay real artists. Interesting to see where it all goes.
Designer here. This is true, but they are also have a seriously good trackpad and good energy use (finally). They work well for design, video and audio, but they are also really nice to operate. It’s a bit like driving a very nice car (which I can’t afford, but have borrowed from a client). Once you get accustomed to it, every other computer—especially laptops—feel like 1980s GM econoboxes.
deleted by creator
That’s good, how is the support in apps though? I live and die by pinch zooming and quick easy accurate scrolling/panning/rotating in Fusion and most of my graphics apps.
Side note, there are some really nice Mac only or Mac centric graphics apps that are affordable and not shitty subscriptions like the adobe suite. Pixelmator and Sketch are big for my photo retouching and UI designs.
deleted by creator
The problem is that the hardware is fairly underpowered to effectively use for any kind of demanding visuals.
Like if I were rendering out a big 3d scene, I’d want something with a fairly beefy GPU to crunch through the renders relatively quickly.
Everything that is professionally rendered is offloaded to purpose built hardware. This part of the workflow would not be any different no matter what the creative is using for their workstation.
Sure, in a big 3d animation team, I’m basically a solo animator working with the tools I have immediately on hand. If I had a 5000 GPU Render Farm, then yeah, a Mac as a work station might work, but I’d still rather have a beefier customizable workstation than a Mac.
No, you wouldn’t.
Oh I’m sorry I didn’t realize you could just read my mind. I must have been mistaken.
Fuck off dude, no need to be a cuntnugget.
Writing and game development are creative too
As someone in the video and audio production sphere professionally, you are 100% correct. I have a Mac desktop that I use for any work I do, but I run Mint on a notebook for my own purposes.
From the mid to late 1990s, definitely. Not so convinced after that.
MacOS vs Windows 11 is an easy choice. Recall alone makes Windows 11 radioactive.
surprisingly many computational scientists use MacOS
Yeah, I have some anecdotal evidence to that as well.
Everyone likes to shit on AAPL for being a walled garden, but it’s really hard for some to admit that they are pretty good at what they’re doing.
I mean, they kind of have to be pretty good to entice you into the walled garden to begin with. Get people in the door with a smooth, super-polished experience, and then you’ve already got plenty of them pretty well won over. You’ll lose some users with previous experience with another OS to “It doesn’t work the way it did on $ancient_version of $OS, I hate it,” that go back, some just get tired of the same thing and want to try something new, and others that hit the walls of the garden and decide they want out. If it was straight garbage and restrictive, on top of being expensive, nobody would hang around until they got comfortable enough that overcoming the friction of changing was a real obstacle to switching.
There’s just a disproportionate representation of folks like myself in tech communities versus the general population who are opposed to any walled garden, no matter how polished, when there exist a free alternative.
it’s very popular with developers due to being a turnkey posix environment. given the choice between mac and windows for development, i would go with mac every time. it’s not my personal first choice but it’s tolerable.
WSL is very workable as a dev environment. I just wish it wasn’t so janky with networking.
i don’t know about “very”. it is a crutch. a well-made crutch, but still a crutch. i curse it every time i need to connect a serial port.
MacOS owns the developer/sysadmin laptop market.
I would say thats mostly because of Company policies since devs would use the same tools you would use in a linux box. As an Android Developer and CICD Manager I really hate that I have to use a MacBook Pro when a good ol Thinkpad would be more than sufficient.
Not at all the case for me and for other devs where I work. We can freely choose to run Linux, and some people do (mostly backend devs). M-series MacBooks dominate though because of the simple fact that they are just so much more powerful than the alternatives.
Since you’re doing Android development, you’re probably saving some very significant amount of compile time, if you’re running an M-series MacBook Pro.
When the M1 was released there were actually stories of companies sidestepping normal device replacement policies and upgrading all mobile devs to M1s because of the time savings involved, which should tell you something about the power in these machines.
Since the release of the M-series, the MacBook Pros have gone from being primarily a fashion item to becoming primarily a tool for work - someone made the apt comparison that the previous MacBooks were trying to be Lamborghinis - pretty to look at at the expense of functionality, while the M-series are tractors - tools to accomplish jobs.
Let’s be real here, the vast majority of developers are not the type of person to want to dig into the depths of their computer. Then just want something that works so they can write their code.
They may have started that way, but doing a hobby as your job will kill almost all interest you have in it.
I mean, yeah sure, but do you think that every linux user distro hops (especially on company time) and tinkers with dot files all the time? Eventually the linux user will settle down to their preferred config, store it on their source control and be done with it.
On the other hand you have MacOS where you can customise uh… darkmode or lightmode with an accent color (okay thats the same with GNOME) and perhaps your shell of choice but thats it.
I don’t think half of our devs have even changed their wallpaper. They’ll set the UI to dark mode, and that’s about it for the OS. They’ll tweak their IDEs a decent bit, but OS wise they really don’t seem to care.
Same. We have an iOS build, and it turns out you can only debug iOS apps on macOS.
Other than that, none of my job needs macOS, and I honestly hate macOS, but it’s what we standardized on due to iOS support, though we really only need one or two macOS devices because 99% of our app is the same across platforms.
The “luxury” space. It’s overpriced hardware with an honestly relatively pretty aesthetic and the OS has so many guardrails they’re hard to really mess up, and when someone does mess it up, apple stores are ubiquitous enough that its a pretty quick trip to get it fixed. Perfect for people with a bit more money than sense who don’t want to or have the time/ability to figure out how to properly use a more flexible OS that requires a bit more knowhow to use and not break.
Have you seen the M4 benchmarks?
If you’re memory bound then sure, you can get way more bang for your buck with Intel/AMD. But for pretty amazing CPU performance I think the “Apple is overpriced” trope isn’t really true any more.
It comes and goes… When the original MacBooks came out, especially with the Core 2 Duo, they were actually competitive with other manufacturers… Then the value started to lower until it wasn’t competitive anymore.
CPU isn’t the only specs I’m looking for, supporting a beefy graphic card for 3d rendering is also a must, at least for me to quickly get renders done, and dollar for dollar, getting a customized computer running windows will take me much farther and faster than any Mac will.
Sure the CPU might be amazing but CPU isn’t the only important part of a computer.
I’m old enough to remember when people thought OSX Server was a competitive option because it was technically “unix”. Needless to say, once people figured out Apple was using Linux for their own servers, despite numerous attempts to switch over to OSX Server. OSX Server went tits up. Apparently OSX Server hung around as an addon to OSX for casual use.
Space in your amygdala, apparently.
Unix certification.
https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3710.htm
OSX Server would like a word.
Linux is not UNIX
Linux owns more than server/web space. It’s everywhere. A lot of IoT is Linux too. Also drones, router, switches, NASs, smart white goods, cars, etc, often have Linux in somewhere too. TVs were Linux, but are now Android, which is Linux but not GNU/Linux. Basically user facing Linux is often Android, though not the Steam Deck.
IoT is 80% Linux. Linux owns every space except Game Console and Desktop, at least that I can think of.
BSD and other permissively licenced code is used a load in games. PS4-PS5 are FreeBSD based I think. GCC is often the compiler used for these platforms. Though maybe Clang + LVM now. So loads of FOSS is used, but these is little community participation. That what non-copyleft allows. Maybe it’s better now. I left games over 12 years ago now and not really following.
yeah, I’ve heard many times the Play Stations have use FreeBSD for a while now.
The *nix desktop space.
Year of desktop Linux is when? 😆
Mine was like 2005 for home and 2012 for work. Windows and Mac are a distant memory. Thankfully.
2006 for me. Work varies depending on the company and position, but I mostly find ways around it.
Worst orchestration options of any modern operating system?
Laptops that won’t die in 2 hours? Even with Asahi the difference is 30%
“Whale space”, as their are going for those that like to spent more?
Definitely not the server space. OSX Server flopped in the early 2000’s. But you know, OSX is definitely “unix”.