I didn’t mean for this post to cause a bunch of arguing in the comments =(
I thought this was just some gallows humor (e.g. “Everything’s lovely except that I have to fear for my safety all the time”) type of shitpost that sounded similar to comments I’ve heard from women irl a lot.
This also depends on what kind of roads you have to walk on - highways suck for nighttime walks, because not only are you constantly on edge to try not to get run over, you also need to walk for miles to get anywhere.
Suburbs are nicer, but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
I don’t know where I was going with this. I lost my train of thought.
Easy solution: bring a bear. Much less chance of being murdered, and the bear gets to shit in the woods. Well, park, but close enough.
Instructions unclear, hid roadkill bear in Central Park
Easy solution: live in a safe country! We have no fears of night walks in Canada.
Unless you’re indigenous, then there’s a risk…
The 184 murdered Canadian women of 2024 might disagree with you. Especially Indigenous women, 24% of the total. Of course some were murdered by their husbands/partners, probably not out walking, but the majority were killed by strangers or mere acquaintances.
This comment isn’t about violence against women comment. This is about safety of walking at night in cities. So just because I say it’s much safer to walk at night in Canada DOES NOT MEAN I AM DENYING VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN DOESN’T EXIST. Sheesh the logic of some.
In all of Canada? Every city? All of Toronto and Vancouver? Wow I’m impressed that rape, murder and assault never happen there.
Compared to the US, yes it is much much safer here. I would be scared to walk late night downtown ANYWHERE in US cities. Here, that’s never been a problem.
I’m going out on a limb and saying you’re not a woman. There’s no place on earth I could say I’d never feel unsafe walking alone at night. Although I’m less nervous in my own neighborhood in Los Angeles, just because it’s familiar.
I did delve into your history to check before I spoke. I now know a lot more about Myanmar, (which was fascinating and took me so far back into your posts as to get creepy, my apologies ) and the NFL, and btw you’re doing great at adding content to Lemmy, but the only posts about women’s issues were the Toronto Tempo and one about abortion pill access that’s consistent with your sound views on the present shithole US administration, and you didn’t add any personal comments to.
That’s kinda creepy. I don’t have to go out on a limb to say you’ve never been to Canada while I’ve been to the biggest cities in the US. I live in Toronto. While I am a man I know a lot of women in my life who walk at night DOWNTOWN. And nobody would tell them they are insane to do that. It’s not an issue here. It behooves me that you all assume the world is like the US. It isn’t. Yes there are bad places to not walk at night - certain ghettos for instance, or a certain small city in the prairies with a reputation. The large ones - Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal in most parts are safe for both genders. Come and visit us sometime. Summer is better.
I have been to Canada twice, Quebec and Toronto, and I wouldn’t walk alone at night in either.
Edit: I guess I would if I absolutely HAD to, but I’d be uncomfortable as fuck about it. And I wonder if your female friends are as casual about it as you believe.
Where do you get your reference points from? Social media? Movies? Shows? Or personal experience from walking in lots of downtowns? These statements just reek of not first-hand knowledge to me and just “oooh crime ridden OTHER places” Sure crime exists, but it’s the broad strokes that make me disregard statements like that. I’ve been to plenty of very safe downtowns in various corners of America, to say ANY US city is insane.
Are you 12 fucking years old?
No, just old enough to realize speaking in platitudes makes people look like ignorant idiots
Cops even take you on starlight tours. So safe.
Nah you’re just sheltered.
Are you saying living in a safe country is bad? o.0
No I’m saying people get murdered in Canada, your experience isn’t everyones.
I haven’t been murdered in the U.S., that doesn’t mean people don’t get murdered.
Until your bear meets RFK jr in the park
My suburb neighborhood is filled with walkers and it is super unsafe at night. They decided when they built it that they didn’t want to to create and maintain sidewalks and street lamps, so people always walk in the road and the only lights are the lamp posts at the end of people’s driveways. And almost nobody wears reflectives, or carries lights or anything on their person. Particularly when you’re blinded by an oncoming car’s lights, it’s nearly impossible to see people until you’re right up on them.
It’s so stupid and shortsighted. Living environments are not just the inside of our homes - it includes the outside, the neighbourhood, and the options you have to travel in and out of there. All of this together decide your quality of life inside your home.
Don’t for a second think it’s by accident. This was done to make areas less accessible to ‘undesirables’. After builders and realtors were told to stop forcing PoC into specific areas, they just went ahead and built suburbs that you basically had to have a car to access, ensuring poorer people were kept out.
but the best is to walk in a park, but that raises your chances of getting murdered by a lot so idk
Is this a vibes-based take of do you actually have any stats on the matter?
Fwiw, the best is hands down a walk in a still kind of crowded city center. Few things bring as much security as eyes on the street
You’ll be fine if you just keep away from Assault Av., Murder Blvd., Rape roundabout and Stabbing St.
/S
That’s your problem. You’re supposed to be walking, not riding a train…
In the US walking outside is generally terrible even in the suburbs.
Gross to me that multiple comments here are ignoring this reality. Crimes committed by men against women in situations like that are so common that women aren’t protecting themselves unless they consider every unfamiliar man a potential threat.
Obviously women can also commit crimes against men, but its so much less common that I don’t have to take precautions to protect myself against them.
As a man it kind of sucks when you are assumed to be dangerous even when you aren’t, but you need to get over it. Its not worth it for women to compromise their safety, and assume you to not be a threat just to make you feel better.
Obviously women can also commit crimes against men, but its so much less common that I don’t have to take precautions to protect myself against them.
Yeah, I’ve never had second-thoughts about walking past some dangerous-looking women or checking over my shoulder to make sure some woman isn’t following me home. This is a regular thing that women deal with, and pretending that the experiences are anywhere close to equivalent is odd.
You don’t live in a very dangerous area, then.
I keep an eye on everyone, even a woman with a kid in a pram (assuming the pram isn’t just an empty decoy) could try to mug you, people get desperate and chavs get violent. Always keep your head on a swivel, don’t trust anyone at face value just because of their gender or what they look like.
I live near one of those areas. And while I’m weary of some shady women, it’s quite a common trend that women get creative and men get brutish.
I’m more worried that the woman may pickpocket or deceive me first way, way before she pulls a weapon out on me.
It’s not enough to point at a dangerous place and be like “see how bad people are?” but you also need to be be granular and observe the trends in behavior.
That said, I have been warned of a gang of three men and one woman who have been accused of mugging folks in the neighborhood. But even that is rare to hear. Will it ever be three women and one man?
Edit to fix autocorrect.
It’s dark and night, how can you tell gender?
People are afraid of anything in these situations, but they justify it by using men as an excuse, even though, you wouldn’t tell it’s man or women, until it’s too late anyways….
Well general body shape and height are pretty easy tells.
It is not an “excuse.” If I’m attacked by a man at night, I will have a more difficult time protecting myself than if a man was attacked at night, on average. Not to mention that you have to ask yourself, what is the attacker after? Because being sexually assaulted or raped is so personal and awful that it’s natural to have a higher amount of fear of that outcome.
Like how if you were equally likely of being jumped at night by a stranger as you were of being abducted and having spiky metal spears shoved in your urethra… you might recognize that’s it’s not super likely you’ll get jumped, but you would be way less likely to risk it since the fact that sounding is just too awful to chance (for the vast majority of the population).
Also… my sample size is too small to be statistically relevant, but 100% of the men I know are sure they could “take” a random female attacker.
Unrelated; asking that question was difficult but not for the reason I expected. It was like a game! “Do I have super powers in this scenario?” “Is she armed? Am I armed?” “How much time do I have to prepare?” And my personal favorite, from a particularly well-traveled friend- “Is she like a random person, or one of my exes?”
Edit: The last guy has crunched the numbers and decided he could take all of his exes, unless they team up, which he thinks is unlikely, so I’m continuing to count that toward the 100%.
100% of the men I know are sure they could “take” a random female attacker.
Until she’s your roommate’s girlfriend, he’s out of town, she comes into your room when you get home at 4am off a 12hr shift dishwashing when all you want in the world is food, to pet your cats, and to sleep until 2057, and forces herself on you complete with grabbing your wrists and the phrase “no you don’t understand, this is going to happen,” and then you realize that while yeah you probably could use physical violence to stop her even though she’s actually bigger than you, legally even, who are the police going to believe? You, or the crying woman who knows she can weaponize the entire justice system which doesn’t even consider it rape for her to do that (it’s legally defined as “sexual assault” at worst since “rape requires penetration” so woman can’t be charged with rape in my area)? I guess this is happening and I’m going to feel guilty about it for years even though I shouldn’t, fucking cool.
Violence and rape is more likely to come from someone you know than randos on the street, and ime while women who wish to victimize people don’t have the upper hand in physical stature, the ones so inclined know how to weaponize the justice system effectively enough to get what they want.
And btw if a woman is randomly attacking people on the street meth is usually involved, they shouldn’t be so confident.
I can easily see if it’s a women or a man just based on how they move from a distance.
I guess it depends on how dark it is. If it’s pitch black, nobody can see, but usually you have some shape you can see.
Crimes committed by random strangers against women are practically non-existent. Women absolutely need to fear their creepy neighbors or angry ex, as people they know are the actual risks.
Is it really common though? Looking at the generalized US stats its seems that 95%+ of women murdered are by a person they know. Where as for men that stat is 78%. Its pretty rare to get murdered let alone murdered outside on the street. Most* people fear strangers because of news events not because of likelihood.
Random murders just aren’t common and random women murders are even less common. Even rape and sexual assault the stats of random attacks on the street are very low. https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend
This is for the US, I’d expect it to be far lower for most other countries.
I just want to know how these figures would change in case women were to change their behavior and start going out for late night walks.
I think part of the reason we see these numbers instead is due to women’s apprehensivess in the first place, but I could be wrong.
Hard to say. I see women out walking alone at night all the time in my city, at least a handful just past my house every evening. (It’s a university town.) I passed one woman happily chatting on her phone, and oblivious to the world, while riding home tonight after dark. The last time anyone was attacked by a stranger was, I dunno? It definitely happens, but it’s years between instances. They’d probably be safer in the late night hours, with hardly any car traffic. A lot more people get killed by cars.
I believe that this sentiment is fueled by social media and people seeing crazy events from all around the world. I think we could compare this to stats from 50 years ago to see if there was a major difference.
Women are murdered less often than men. It’s simply irrational for women to be more afraid of being murdered than men are.
Haha… You may be right about how often it happens, but no woman is going to feel safe because it rarely happens. Women can get kidnapped or beaten up or raped too… It’s not a safe world.
It’s not a safe world for guys either but at least we are built to take a few punches without breaking an arm.
Nothing is rare if it happens to you.
Truth.
you dont need my validation but here it is anyway, thanks for being cool and normal about things so serious as this :)
As a man it kind of sucks when you are assumed to be dangerous
Sorry I didn’t assume you were a pussy. My mistake.
What and guys aren’t worried about being murdered by other dudes at night? Lol
https://www.victimsweek.gc.ca/res/r512.html#:~:text=In that year%2C men were,a weapon used against them.&text=Young men under the age,-corporate area)%20than%20women.
Statistically men are more likely to be attacked, robbed, sexually assaulted (in a public institution) and shot than women.
Men are more likely to be murdered in general.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/423245/us-violent-crime-victims-by-gender/
Violent crimes happen to men more than women on average.
I am a HUGE advocate for women staying safe. I think more women need to purchase and properly learn how to use a personal high speed lead slinging device.
HOWEVER I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims. Statistically they aren’t more frequently attacked or murdered. In fact they are slightly less likely to be victims. Bad people are gonna do bad things and everyone should learn to protect themselves against those bad people.
DOUBLE HOWEVER Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
At the end of the day everyone should stay safe. Keep your head on a swivel. Obtain and learn how to use a personal defense tool. Be smart.
I wonder if the murder rates are skewed by organized crime/gangs. That has a male skewed gender ratio and high murder rates.
Gangs drive murder rates. Looking at areas in the US without gang activity, the murder rate is almost as low anywhere else in the world.
Almost certainly.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately. It’s difficult to pin down what murders are for sure gang related and which ones aren’t. Obviously there are some situations where it’s very clear, but some where it is not. Where you draw that line changes things significantly.
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Did we read the same comment? He was pointing out statistics around males, not downplaying the statistics around women.
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He’s just making stuff up anyway. It’s not difficult to pull apart those data sets. The information is readily available. It just doesn’t show the first thing that came out of his mouth is correct.
Unfortunately it’s very difficult to pull apart big data sets accurately
The actual fuck? It’s significantly easier to pull apart large data sets, especially to answer demographic questions like this. This is literally Data Science 101, you’re just making shit up!
They’re not interested in evidence or discussions
It’s a hate-movement
I do not care for this claim that women are always the victims.
who said this?
honest query. I don’t see it in OP’s statement. You do corroborate their premise -
Men are overwhelming the perpetrator of violent crimes against everyone. More than 75% of violent crimes is committed by men.
so why the strawman argument at the start?
You said this, this entire thread
You said this, this entire thread
my only other statement in this entire thread is about your misogynistic statement about ‘good man schtick’. you silly chud.
Either your reading comprehension skills are woefully inadequate or your involuntary celibacy is forcing your brain out of your ears due to the hydrostatic overpressure.
I really think you need to get the fuck away from the internet mate, find a life, find some kind of purpose and examine the choices which brought you to this sad fucking state.
Rich coming from a chronically online dude You use thought-terminating cliches like calling someone an incel (& pure projection)
Apparently, calling out misandry is misogyny & only men who has their existence validated by women should be allowed to have opinions According to a lifeless husk like you
Rich coming from a chronically online dude You use thought-terminating cliches like calling someone an incel (& pure projection)
You aren’t calling out any misandry, you’re just a chud. I didn’t seek you out, you put this shit out there yourself.
Finally, buddy, guess what: grown men don’t need you to stick up for them. Honestly. You sad little shit.
So of the photo was of a man, bit with the same text it would be ok. Right? Both you, me, and the woman in the photo agree that men are the problem.
“Not all men” agreed, but enough to men to make others afraid.
True. The caption doesn’t imply any gender for the potential victim, it just happened the original poster is female.
If they have to post any statistics at all, it should only be about the criminal, which they did but with a Google AMP link grrrrrrr
Ohh is this the part where you break it down further and try to say because statistically PoC are more likely to commit crimes that PoC are the problem?
Because that’s certainly sounds like the sort of shittake you’re already doing there.
Discrimination has no place.
Wow. That is a whole lot of getting your undies in a wad over a meme that does NOT exclude any gender feeling this way.
You brought a bunch of bias to this one. Might want to look into why that is
I dunno feels to me like you’re the one getting upset about his post and not vice versa.
username checks out
There are shittons of rape & murder fantasy communities with secretly taken & stolen pictures on porn & snuff websites, on the snuff websites there’s unfortunately also real stuff.
This is something I really didn’t want to know. I wouldn’t want to walk in the shoes of my gf honestly just judging from the amount of harassment she faces in liberal, progressive western cities by men of all age & skin color (need to say this nowadays unfortunately). Add to that being physically inferior that creates a sense of being constantly threatened. Also, they are targeted specifically because they are women and femicide is a real, bad issue.
Not disagreeing that anyone could be affected, just saying I can easily walk at night because no one would target me specifically for being a man.
Clearly you’ve never been jumped lol. It’ll give you a whole new perspective on the world and walking around alone as a guy.
I find it gross that you referred to your own girlfriend as “physically inferior”. I think the better term is physically at a disadvantage.
Since you’re talking to a complete stranger on an anonymous platform it makes no sense to make any assumptions like that.
English is not my first language, in case that was an offensive formulation I apologize.
But your response definitely makes me question your intentions.
I apologizing for assuming. You said something along the lines of “nobody would jump be just because I’m a man” which tells me you haven’t been assaulted by random guys before in your life. They absolutely will jump you for no reason regardless of your gender. I posted those exact statistics in my first comment.
And the word “inferior” has a negative connotation connected to it. You usually use it to describe something that is worse in every way. For example: “I only use zip lock bags because other plastic resealable bag brands are all inferior”.
Your comment about your girlfriend taken at face value came across very sexist. Which is all we can do without knowing someone, how was I supposed to know English is your second language? You use better punctuation than me and it’s the only language I know lol.
no one would target me specifically for being a man
I think you’ve misunderstood. The commenter is not saying that random attacks don’t happen to men, that’s obviously true. But those attacks won’t target you specifically because you are male, which is an additional justification for violence that women have to deal with. I’d argue it’s even more common than women being targeted randomly - or even that random muggings/assaults are actually random. I mean, who’s jumping people that they think are a threat?
You write like you are disagreeing with something in this post, in your own small pathetic way. But I fail to see what part of the post you are disagreeing with
What those statistics do not take into account is the different incidence rates of men/women being out alone at night.
Because women feel more afraid going out into the dark alone, they’re less likely to do so, creating less opportunities for them to be robbed/raped/killed.
To make an analogy:
What are my chances to drown in the sea if I never go swimming in the sea? 0% chance.
What if I go swimming once a week, with a risk of drowning of 0.5% each time I do so: then there’s ~23% chance that I’ll drown by the end of the year.
What if go swimming twice a year, but because I’m such an amateur the chance that I drown is 5%: there is ~10% chance that I drown by the end of the year.Conclusion: even though it is 10x more dangerous for the inexperienced swimmer to go swimming in the sea, in a given year the experienced swimmer is still 2.3 times more likely to drown in the sea than the inexperienced one.
That’s a lot of not making a point. The girl in the OP is still worried about walking at night and the most common threat to a woman in that situation is still men. You didn’t counterpoint any of that, so it is just you shouting into the wind about stuff no one is talking about. Cool.
The girl in the OP is still worried about walking at night and the most common threat to a woman in that situation is still men. You didn’t counterpoint any of that,
Here’s one. In my area, statistically I’m more likely to be physically assaulted by an african american male than anyone else, does that make it ok for me to post things like “I can’t go walking at night because some black men like to murder?” Clearly NO, because I’ve simply added one demographic factor, that is still statistically more likely to attack me, and that makes it racist. Just because I am more likely to be attacked by a black guy because of the actions of a small subset of that demographic doesn’t mean it’s ok to treat every one of them as an attacker, and I’d argue the same goes for race agnostic “men” generalizations based on a small subset of that demographic either, even though statistically an attacker is more likely to be a man as well.
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I personally have mad bo staff skills. I fear no man. Grizzly’s scare me, but no man.
Forget about it, there’s no talking or reasoning with man-haters
It’s going to be fun when the GenderKKK attacks these male-feminists, because they’re men
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Annoying ? Try dangerous & disgusting
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I always use statistics to consider who I watch out on the street
My god, I am a cis male and I don’t feel threatened or targeted by this. I think there’s a reason why certain men feel attacked.
I should have expected to see a bunch of whining when I opened the thread.
I’m also cis male and I am worried about strange men coming near me at night when no one is around. Because, you know, muggers and shit. They murder sometimes too. Does that make you whiny little bitches’ hurt feelings go away?
My brother is a cis male too, he was assaulted and robbed, by two males (at least seemingly so, can’t exactly say what they identify as 6 years later).
Just a bunch of males who only complain about the statistics of men being harmed when women talk about systemtic sexism. They’d probably also loudly claim that white people are victims of racism too when a black people talks about being harassed by cops.
Fucking hate Reddit 2.0 for this shit.
Well I was just called a bigot for daring to say that calling quoting the statistic that men commit more murders than women sexism is no different from calling quoting the statistic that most crimes in Sweden are committed by white people racism. So there’s no probably about it in my mind.
Same people will gladly hurl slurs and sexist remarks then call it misandry when a woman said she doesn’t need a man with a dildo, or reverse racism when a black person said they enjoy spices in their meals.
Heaven forbid that woman say she doesn’t need a man because there are other women.
Yup, and we are less likely to be targeted. Also, not a whole lot of women out there murdering around town at night.
More likely to be targeted. But more likely to be the attacker as well. The ways to lower those numbers come from building up the lower and middle class though. More crime comes from desperate people in desperate times. Help the people, minimize the problem. (It won’t ever fully go away, so I can’t ever say get rid of the problem)
Seriously man, it’s so fucking cringe. I thought this website would be better than the pathetic comments here, but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Same, i also don’t like to walk around at night. And it’s not because i’m afraid to get hit on by some random women.
Nyah. Different people load different meanings. Like
men love to commit murder
and
women love to make things up
Both are provocative statements which will be viewed fundamentally differently even by people with similar values.
Because you are solipsistic & are desperate to get into the pants of a woman, that’s why
Don’t need to, yo momma already lets me in nightly 😎
Does she let you take the bear suit off though?
The murrsuit stays on during sex!
tfw you can’t see women as anything other than sex objects and you just assume everyone else is like you
That’s rich coming a person that wants to demonize men (Oh & BTW, who told Women to make an OnlyFans ?? Not men)
onlyfans supplies the demand coming from men what the fuck are you talking about
also most women don’t even fucking have an onlyfans you dumbass. why do incels always insert that into every conversation? what the hell is going on with you guys?
Men are trash tho (I’m a man and I know other men so I know)
Yeah because you are typical solipsistic male who wants a women in their life (Hence the good-ol “I am one of those good men” schtik you are spouting)
Women are trashier then, as they’re group so priviledged that it makes the nobility jealous
and there it is, we’ve found the incel
solipsistic
Do you even know what that means?
They don’t, clearly
Random woman: I like late night walks, but I’m scared for my safety.
This thread for some reason: YOU DON’T THINK MEN GET SCARED? MURDERED!?
Like, chill. Yes, men can absolutely be murdered/hurt walking alone. But are we really going to sit here and act like women are making up their concerns/grievances out of spite? For some reason, if anyone mentions a general concern/issue related to women’s experiences with men, some people trip over themselves to say how it’s actually not an issue and how it’s actually so much worse for men. If I’m listening to a male DV victim and I go, “well, actually, women are more likely to be victims of DV. You know, it’s actually not even an issue for you. Here, look at these numbers that prove that women are the victims. Do you not mention it because you hate women? Why are you trying to ruin our spotless reputation as delicate flowers that can do no wrong with your lies”, you would think I was nuts, and for good reason.
If you see something like this and get angry at women, you have a problem.
At best it’s a problem with reading comprehension. At worst, you’re worried that things like this could get in the way of your murdering-women hobby.
lemmy.world mods finding out that they’ve cultivated a community of reddit incels:
This from a user on an instance that’s known for their open villification of any opinion that goes against the moscow and beijing dictated groupthi–
Wait, wait hold on. Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip? Maybe there’s a vested interest on every side to keep the early adopters of a decentralized social media platform infighting over meaningless stereotypes based on the letters that come after their username, making value judgements based entirely on dictated preconceptions instead of experiential conclusions and honest interaction?
… nah, probably not. And besides, it’s way more fun to just sling mud. Screw u, u commie scuzbucket.
Could it possibly be that we both have deeply subjective views of the other large instances, because humans fall to tribalism faster than a kitten on a sock full of catnip?
nope, it’s because your instance is operated by people who refuse to moderate disinformation under some naive belief that enough debate bro-ing is all it takes to defeat it, failing to understand that the effort it takes to proliferate hate and disinformation is much smaller than the effort it takes to refute it. as such, lemmy.world is becoming overrun with some of the most toxic motherfuckers on the entire platform because all the sane people are being driven away.
Ah, a blanket denial of everything I said. How glad I am that I’m above petty things like pointing out the comically stereotypical behavior of users from other instances. It’s nice up here, on the Mountain of Sarcastic Moral Superiority.
As an actual counterpoint, the primary way that new users get onto lemmy is always going to have the highest concentration of toxic users. Society is, if you haven’t noticed, incredibly toxic. Commonly espoused ideas like trans people being human or civil rights being important aren’t commonly supported by society at large (source: the entire world right now). The easiest way for people who support those things to find their way to instances where those ideas are popularly held is to join the most popular instance and see both the need for other instances with heavier moderation, and what those instances are. How many people hear about blahaj or sh.itjust.works before signing up to lemmy, vs. sign up there as their second account? Personally, I’m pretty grateful that the most toxic opinions are largely self-segregated into a place where people aren’t required to interact with them. It’s less pleasant, sure, but it’s also the best place in the fediverse to get an accurate idea of what the real societal opinions are. And if it gets to be too much, I can always just flee .world (or .ml, I mean seriously guys) like a base coward and spend time under one of my alt accounts on a more heavily moderated instance like .blahaj instead.
that isn’t necessarily true though: you don’t see other popular instances of fediverse platforms having these problems when they actually put effort into enforcing rules that protect the community and discourage disinformation and hate speech, and it doesn’t make them any less of a gateway for new users.
the staff on lemmy.world promote disinformation, and that does not benefit any of us, especially when disinformation has a way of spreading that the separation of instances alone isn’t enough to prevent. most are still either directly federated to lemmy.world, or federated to instances that are federated to lemmy.world.
toxicity itself isn’t inherent to society but a consequence of how our current society is set up, and social media platforms that deliberately proliferate disinformation play a role in that. if you want to actually counter hate and disinformation the first step you should take is to stop outright encouraging it and fight it at the source.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged-ass take. fuck you.
also, implying people are cowards for wanting to flee your hate instance is despicable and privileged ass-take. fuck you.
That was pretty clearly self deprecating. Who in the hell calls someone else a ‘base coward’, anyways? For that matter, who would even take seriously being called a base coward? I think you might genuinely be treating everyone else as hostile as a means of self defense, which while understandable is in itself incredibly (edit: exhausting is a much better term) to interact with.
I have real comments here, along the lines of what you mean by promoting disinformation and the moderation standards you would prefer to see, because those are sincerely interesting. But come on, what’s the point in trying to have a discussion when you treat everything like an attack on you & yours? I’m not even trying to be hostile here.
it’s self-deprecating but has hostile implications toward the many users who really did leave to escape ill treatment toward them. marginalized people get enough of that in real life after all. i don’t think they should have to endure it at all, nor do i think it’s cowardly to want to avoid it. if i’m reading too much into this and that wasn’t your intention, i’m sorry. though i’m really not sure how else to interpret that.
when i say lemmy.world promotes disinformation, i’m referring to their recent announcement that they would require community moderators to entertain disinformation in the name of having open debate. they redacted that announcement following the backlash if i recall correctly, but it is nonetheless reflective of how they have been moderating things on their instance, which is apparent in threads like this one that stir the pot and bring out all the rabid misogynists that have been tolerated and continue to be tolerated on here. the lack of moderation toward these things aligns with what they stated in that announcement, that these are ideas we should be open and fair to.
the problem of course is that being open to disinformation alienates the marginalized people affected by it, harms the people who would be deceived by it, and only serves to benefit the people who would spread it. it’s a lot easier to fight disinformation and bigotry by stopping it at the source rather than letting it fester and then trying to take it down with debate. we all know how difficult it is to argue in good faith against those arguing in bad faith. it takes no time and no effort to just make something up, but more time and effort than most people even have the energy to give to refute it with fact-based evidence.
we’re in the midst of a social crisis with the rise of the incel movement and MRA influencers. those who follow these things are more emotionally invested in them than logically, and near impossible to get through to. you might be able to convince a few undecided readers if you put sufficient effort into your replies, but ultimately the spread of these movements are much faster than the handful of individuals who make an effort to stand against them. a lot of us just don’t even have the time. we need support from those who are in the position to actually take preventive measures against them.
I’m the last one to defend a tankie… But go fuck yourself.
Nah.
SJW here and I just wandered in, but now I’m grabbing the popcorn and a seat
When the Reddit 2.0 copies all the worst parts of Reddit: 🤯
Well when you scrape the top layer of reddit mold, which is comprised of the most politically and socially charged individuals, and put them in one place, this is to be expected.
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“feminazi” is literally incel terminology, and this thread is full of people spouting off literal incel rhetoric, but go off king
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what’s funny about this is that i didn’t call you an incel, you just assumed that when i said lemmy.world has cultivated a community of incels, that must include you (someone who isn’t even on their instance i might add)
i wonder why that is lmao
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oh no don’t get me wrong, i fully believe that you are also a massive fuckin’ incel, i just thought it was funny that i made you show your ass all on your own accord. 'cause deep down you know you fit the description.
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Ah, misandry, my old friend.
On 196 they love pictures of women punching men. But post the opposite and instaban.
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Violence is bad no matter what gender is doing what to whom. Is there a problem?
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Edit: nevermind
ah yes misandry is when women don’t just shut up and accept disproportionate violence from men
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less. It’s easy to quote stats, it’s much harder to address the real issues underneath.
Misandry is where you see men as the problem - nothing more or less.
Right, so literally nothing about the post you’re replying to. Cool.
i don’t see men as the problem, i see patriarchy as the problem. patriarchy causes disproportionate violence from men. observing the consequences that stem from larger social issues and how they affect you personally doesn’t mean you deny the existence of the said issues. calling it misandry only serves to downplay the effects of those consequences and ultimately downplay the existence of their source.
Where is the mention of the victim’s gender in this meme? If there was a man in a picture, not a woman, do you think the text would be less true? Do you feel comfortable walking somewhere at night when some strange man starts walking up to you? I sure as hell don’t despite my possession of a penis.
I mean, if I were to throw out lines such as “if only women didn’t demand so much”, I’d be guilty of misogyny regardless of who I implied the demand was levied against.
The misandry here is “men love to commit murder”, not the implication of who is murdered.
Yes, if you divorce part of a sentence from the context in which it was placed, it does become bigoted.
I assume you don’t think this person means every time they have ever walked anywhere at night in their entire life when they talk about night walks, but you assume this person means every single man. It shouldn’t be necessary to have that explained to you.
Also, you don’t seem to understand the difference between punching up and punching down.
Reading the comments make me feel like I’m reading 4chan. How are people getting triggered by that post
It’s literally engagement bait gender wars bullshit. This conversation is fucking useless until you start asking WHY and none of them do, they just start throwing bullshit around about their own personal anecdotes or start screaming “NO THATS NOT TRUE” “YES IT IS”
It’s a useless never ending “debate”. Man vs. Bear should’ve taught us that. Mods should’ve locked the post or deleted it already IMO.
One of the mods posted this
Enacting change is not the point of the post, it’s just a woman making a joke about the way she experiences life to others who may experience life in the same way. Men just got their feelings hurt and now, instead of trying to prove they’re not sexist, they’re in full denial about the rampant oppression women live every day.
Of course women experience oppression. I’m nonbinary and outwardly feminine and I get a fraction of that derision directed towards me as well. But because I won’t paint that as some inherent failing of all people born with XY chromosomes and point to social issues instead, gender essentialists get mad, and gender essentialists really engage with these posts.
I’m gonna bring this thread up the next time people throw a tantrum when I say Lemmy is sexist.
The problem with that is that the ones throwing those tantrums (or is the plural tantra???) are the same ones making the problem comments here.
Reddit is 4chan with account, .world is trying to be reddit 2.0 by it’s admins, not a shock.
You don’t get it? I’m not upset by it, but it makes sense that others might.
What if instead of men it said Jewish people? Black men? Short Asian females? Brown folks? Makes it a little more obvious why it would be problematic no?
It’s casting blame/shame on an incredibly large group for no particular reason (humor?). It’s just a dumb joke, but again, I get why some might be offended a bit.
If a white dude would say this, the prople getting triggered right now wouldn’t even care. The post wouldn’t even get that many upvotes. Most people are getting triggered because it’s a woman saying it.
the way you describe men as men but women as females says everything i need to know about you and where you stand
The irony of your comment…
It’s pretty crazy, like when people go ‘‘men who rape children should be in prison for life or capital punishment’’ I’ve never once in my life read that and thought ‘‘Oh no! How mean! You’re hurting my feelings, what if instead of ‘men’ you said ‘jews’ then you’d see how hateful and mean your statement is!’’
Are you a murderer, bro? No? Well maybe this ISN’T about you special boy feelings? Crazy I know.
It’s the same when people dicuss any form of racism, or the history of slavery in the US. What do you get? Self identifying white people loading up the comments with ‘‘I DIDN’T DO SLAVERY STOP HURTING MY FEELINGS!!!’’ or ‘‘You know what’s a totally unnecessary justification for chattel slavery in US history? Also African people did slavery. So. STOP HURTING MY SPECIAL WHITE FEELINGS!’’ or ‘‘You know what’s a lie that I use to justify my racist feelings towards anyone with darker skin than me? I can blame all the darks for the actions of individuals who are also darks, but don’t you dare talk to me about white men statistically being more likely to molest kids or commit arson or murder white women they are married to or dating or being more likely to abandon their children that’s FUCKING REVERSE RACISM! I’M THE VICTIM OF THE REAL RACISM NOT THOSE DARK SKIN PEOPLE WHO ARE ALL THE SAME AND EVIL!!’’
it’s fucking exhausting.
I get that you’re really passionate about this topic. But the point seemed to have been missed. The parent post is blaming “men” and not “men who x”.
The most like-to-like comparison I can think of is “Family life is such a vibe… it’s a shame that women like to murder babies tho”. Does that help make it more obvious?
I’m a man and I also think it sucks men like to murder, I’m also not even very likely to be the target of an attack unlike a woman and I feel this way.
Imo getting mad at this is incel behavior, it’s as if you think views like this are why you can’t get laid and not your terrible personality, disgusting habits, and shitty views towards women.
I’m also not even very likely to be the target of an attack unlike a woman and I feel this way
You are technically 3 times more likely to be murdered as a male than as a female though (this number varies by source to be fair, but males are always higher). Now if you remove partner violence (since the post is about random men), that number is even more disproportionate.
The parent point remains though, you’re ascribing an ill on a huge group (half of the entire population!). At best, it’s lazy, low resolution thinking. At worst it’s the source of prejudice, and ill will.
Again, I don’t care. It’s a silly joke, but I’m not going to sit here and pretend to not get why others might be offended by it.
Not in a random attack while I’m walking. If I were a woman I’d def pick a bear over you in the woods.
Overwhelmingly, research has found interesting gender differences among the general public as well as among college students: men are more likely to be victimized by crime than are women, whereas women are more fearful of crime than men
Lemmy.world moment
You are 10x more likely to die by falling, car crash or unintentionally poisoned than get murdered.
You are 20x more likely to die by falling, car crash, or unintentionally poisoned than get murdered, as a woman.
Women are actually much less likely to get murdered in general.
Stop villainizing men. This is equally as idiotic as villainizing POC because they have higher crime rates Dont sink to the level of the GOP by generalizing. The unfair alienation of young men is real, and ultimately cost us the election, just so we can feel better than them.
A healthy take that will surely result in good faith discussion.
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god forbid women have a perfectly reasonable fear of the people who make the streets unsafe for them to begin with
Women can’t murder?
Edit, it’s dark and night, how can you tell who’s approaching you? Men and women both murder, you’re worried about being murdered, not “men murdering” sexism works both ways yo.
They can, but you are 7.5 times more likely to be murdered by a man.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251886/murder-offenders-in-the-us-by-gender/
Certain minorities have higher chances of committing crimes as well but treating them differently based on that is textbook discrimination. Weird how one judgment is okay and the other is not.
Not 7.5 times higher though. No other factor is as big a predictor as gendered violence. Men commit violence against women and other men much, much more often than women do.
And if you are a man, you should be just as mad because the chances that you are a victim of a violent act by another man is much higher too.
Not all men are violent, but men and women are both victims of the anger of this small-subset of men that we have been unable to identify what else they have in common beyond gender.
that we have been unable to identify what else they have in common beyond gender.
Don’t look at a breakdown by race or google 13/52, you might find that generalizing based on demographics and using it to fearmonger like you’re doing is in actuality a tactic also already used by racists to other the outgroup and scare their base too. Don’t worry though you’re fine, it’s only bad when they do it.
Mf really whinging about racists not being allowed to say, “Despite…”
Pathetic.
I wonder if that’s only for the USA, does that apply to other countries as well?
Got you covered!
“A 2013 global study on homicide by the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime found that men account for an average of 95% of all persons convicted of homicide”
There’s more than one reason someone might not be convicted of homicide and it’s not always because a homicide didn’t happen.
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Well, yeah. Who is doing the overwhelming majority of the murdering? And why does this fact bother upstanding men at all? Are you not secure in your ability to convince others that you’re not a threat? I have no problem with that at all.
oh for fuck’s sake you know this is full of shit. just because women are technically physically capable of doing it, that doesn’t mean they’re statistically an equal threat.
Physically, it’s impossible for a woman to murder a man. They have tiny hands like Trump.
Yikes. Someone makes a gender based overgeneralization when overwhelming evidence (look at crime stats) proves it incorrect, and those that dare to defend that group get attacked.
Bigotry is bigotry. If you hate a group purely based on their superficial membership, then you are bigoted.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot#:~:text=noun,group)%20with%20hatred%20and%20intolerance
The strongest argument you have is when you compare violence perpetrated by gender. But even then, that doesn’t support your argument that all men are evil in some way. And at such low numbers, it’s disingenuous deflection b/c even the two summed up don’t account for even 1% of the population. Sad that so many of you have brain rot.
Woman: “I and every woman I know have had some really bad experiences with men”
This dude: “Actually, you’ve had bad experiences with a small minority of men. Why do you hate all men?”
Lol pretty much. Bigotry is bigotry. You’ve got no moral high ground here.
That’s like saying that “the majority of crimes in Sweden are committed by white people” is bigotry. It’s not bigotry, it’s fucking statistics.
No, the argument is that the overall number of crimes is so low you can’t make any population inferences lmao
You bigots demonstrating they don’t understand sound argumentation.
So you feel totally safe walking alone at night and a strange man starts approaching you, right?
Because my penis sure doesn’t make me feel safe in those situations.
Where is the victim’s gender even mentioned in the meme?
Also, I would suggest calling a mod a bigot on a community where the very first rule is “be respectful” might not be the smartest thing for you to be doing.
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And of course your common sense take is getting downvoted. (Edit was -2 when I posted). They should get the bears to protect them.
does the post say “all men are murderers”? no, it doesn’t. it is however true that a disproportionate amount of men are murderers, especially compared to women, the number of whom that are murderers of men or other women are so statistically low compared to men that it isn’t even worthy of consideration.
men, generally, are far more likely to commit acts of violence than women. and the number of men who do, while not the majority, is high enough for women to be afraid of men in general.
under our existing patriarchal social conditions, men are murderers. they’re more inclined to violence and present a higher risk than women. saying “men are murderers” doesn’t mean “all men including you are murderers” it simply means that the threat is near entirely comprised of men. you should also be aware that we also don’t think that this is inherent to being a man but a manifestation of social conditioning under patriarchy that encourages such behavior in men.
lol, i literally point out how your retort is flawed, and you bull head through it anyways.
What’s funny but somehow escapes the terminal basement dwellers is that the majority of productive women do not worry about this b/c they understand how stats work. But bigots are never smart enough to even understand basic stats.
you didn’t cite any actual statistics, meanwhile throughout this thread people have been citing stats that prove you wrong. violent crime between men and women is not equal, and women are disproportionately victimized by it and men disproportionately cause it.
and yes, i’m fully aware these statistics compare violence by gender. no one is saying that because the majority of violent crime is committed by men, that the majority of men are violent criminals. you’re being obtuse and missing the point on purpose.
with that said, the number of women in total affected by violence, sexual violence especially is indeed high anyway. even if it isn’t all men, it happens enough that all women have to live in fear.
It’s not hard to find how low the crime stats are. FBI posts them yearly. It’s called google.
Obv you don’t get how to make a statistical argument if you bull headedly stuck with it. In the end, while you’re busy preoccupied by the gender distraction, a good amount of us are furthering the real divide, class. And well, while you’re still repeating your tired, pointless arguments, productive people (men and women) are leaving you behind…happily.
Simply put, you can’t say “too bad men are murderers tho” or any other derivative when you use a stat that doesn’t actually support that argument. But again, bigots aren’t the smartest lot.
Have a nice night.
i actually posted the FBI statistics in my reply. you didn’t. you didn’t even fucking read them i bet.
you can’t liberate the proles without the liberation of marginalized groups among them. stop pretending to be a comrade in class struggle when you’re just a misogynist and opposed to what we stand for.
Yea, but the stat doesn’t support your argument lol
Also, your assumption of my misogyny is completely unfounded. However, your misandry/bigotry is an full display. It’s all good though. Your bigotry will hold you back for as long as you hold onto it. I, on the other hand, will continue to work with my colleagues, men and women. We work well together b/c we actually understand how to dissect an argument and how racists/misandrists/misogynists/bigots lie with stats…like you’re doing now.
it literally does. you don’t even understand my argument.
good luck having women work with you though, i’m sure they’ll love how you downplay their experiences with sexual violence because “not all men are bad”
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Lol nice
It’s a shame that women molest 13 year old boys.
It’s not a contest bro
You got a snort laugh out of me in an otherwise stressful thread. Thanks.
There has to be something seriously wrong with them because they chose to reply like that, scary deflection
Wtf level of misogyny are you on that this is your response
You mean women are also capable of committing crimes? I’m gonna need some more sources for an outlandish take like that.
OP’s take is outlandish. This is just keeping the same energy.
At night on walks!? We are talking about the dangers of walking alone at night. Are 13 year old boys afriad to walk in the park because they will get jumped by pedophiles of the opposite gender?
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Testosterone is a hell of a drug.
You’re part of the problem. You hear that violence from men is too high, and rather than think what you might help do about it or how to avoid adding to that statistic yourself, you feel threatened by it and try to defend yourself with whataboutism.
Ironically, it’s probably this kind of emotion immaturity that leads men to violence more. Please, critically engage with these ideas and learn some emotional maturity.
GFY.
Use your words.
Why do you males always get so emotional when the adults bring up facts and logic??? 🤣🤣🤣
That’s ironic considering I post a link to a factual article about a current case and am met with hostility and hysterical responses.
I mean… you’re the one being hostile and hysterical now too telling people to go fuck themselves instead of defending or elaborating your point.
Decorum isn’t called for when attacked for posting an opposing circumstance article.
Oh I’m not criticizing your lack of decorum. I’m criticizing your hypocrisy.
hysterical responses
Alrighty there little guy, did you think a single data point is representative of a broader societal trend or something? Damn, boys are total arse at statistics.
The shitpost contains the over generalization.
It’s really not that deep. Why can’t men just take a joke?
You first bitch
Get your misogynist ass outta here.
Hilarious reaction to a factual article.
Wow, a single article being used in a feeble attempt to overstate a trend that’s almost a magnitude smaller than its counterpart, and that doesn’t compare very well to the topic of the thread?
Gee, I wonder why people aren’t convinced with you spewing facts.
Where is the attempt to overstate a trend? You make things up that don’t exist.
Your point is “look at what this one woman did” as a counterpoint to “women can’t go out at night because violence is so prevalent”. How am I making that up? That’s literally what you’re doing. Lol
Yes, don’t go outside at night because Boogeyman everywhere. Whatever.
it’s a statistic fact that men commit an absurdly high amount of sexual violence against women. the best you could come up with is ONE article of ONE case demonstrating the opposite. go fuck yourself.
Yes, basically. Except there’s no boogey but a man. Welcome to womanhood. 😉
you literally said “women molest 13-year-old boys” as if it’s a common occurrence the way men raping women is. the best you could do was cite one article about one case. you know exacly what it is you’re doing. stop playing dumb.
Yup, still a misandrist piece of rotten garbage.
I’m a misandrist? How is it not misogynist that every single fucking time violence against women gets mentioned on Lemmy, a million ex-reddittors crawl out of the woodwork to change the subject? Nobody is saying that women can’t be murderers or molesters, but the thing is: a woman is way more likely to be, say, murdered by a man than another woman or the reverse. Because we have spent thousands of years building a culture where men are taught to see women as lesser beings.
No one is saying that violence against men doesn’t exist or that it is acceptable, let alone for a few ter’f’s, but the fact that people like you feel the need to bring up violence against men really makes me question your motives and honestly, it just feels like some lemmings simply want to silence us every single time misogyny and violence against us is brought up. There is time and place to talk about both sexual and physical violence that men and boys face, and it absolutely is a topic that should be discussed, but that time and place shouldn’t be every time misogyny is being talked about.
When a female teacher sleeps with a male student it is international news because those are very popular stories that get a lot of clicks (you know why).
When a male teacher does it, it’s local news for maybe a week.
This can lead stupid people into thinking there is a endemic problem with female teachers abusing male students, but that’s like thinking it’s easy to won the lottery because there’s always lottery winners in the news.
And you wonder why women feel uncomfortable around you.
Two things can be true at the same time.
except the implication kikutwo’s trying to get across here isn’t true at all. stop entertaining this garbage. one instance of something happen is not equivalent to an immense amount of something else happening.
