Mutual aid spam is becoming a problem on the Fediverse.
And to be sure, I’m not against mutual aid. What I am against is spam.
This person has not verified who she is – or even if the profile picture is hers. Additional research on her name states she is a scammer with a record of grifting. I am therefore skeptical that any donations will help anyone in need.
Folks, please be cautious with mutual aid requests. Yes, people sometimes need help. But people also lie.
@fediverse@lemmy.world
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person, works OK for GoFundMe-type stuff like “I had something happen to me that will take a lot of money to fix”. Too easy to scam and grift for small stuff like this though, where for all you know they’re just a very clever dog on the internet.
Charity is not the same as mutual aid anyways, even though I have also seen “mutual aid” requests on the Fediverse that were clearly asking for charity.
How would you differentiate the two?
Can you just tell me lmao i dont wanna read an essay
Well you asked a question with a complicated answer. Dean Spade is a prolific and respected writer and organizer, and his thoughts on the matter are relatively concise compared to the volumes upon volumes written by his predecessors in anarchist thought.
im curious about they differentiate it themselves as a person not how an academic defines it.
The title already gives it away 😜
it doesnt and its why i asked lol then i opened the link and saw its over 10 paragraphs
Mutual aide is mutual
I for one am not willing to feed a milk-bone addiction, no matter how good a boy he is.
I don’t think mutual aid can work well like that on the internet. Works great in person,
That can be an incredibly privileged position to be in to say. Some people are in situations so bad in their meatspace life that “the random internet” is actually more trustworthy.
It might be better for them but it’s not better for the internet strangers, now there is an unknown beggar in their space.
That’s not mutual aid, that’s scam spam. Report it.
Yeah, mutual aid works on the local level or in insular communities like long-term discord groups with a tight group of regular members. With community mutual aid, I’m generally in favor of just taking people at their word. If they say they need help, give them help. No need to interrogate them like the food stamp office will. You prevent people from abusing the system by simply not granting endless requests from the same person. Or if someone needs severe aid, at that point you can start actually verifying their story, helping them access government benefits, helping them find employment, etc.
But that kind of open approach works for in-person aid. It doesn’t work for anonymous online aid, where someone can use bots to spin up hundreds of convincing profiles each begging for money.
I just don’t think mutual aid works well in an online context. The only online context it works in is among communities like small discord groups where people know each other for years. But on a lemmy or mastadon-type service? Mutual aid is impractical. Any people asking for aid should be directed to local groups that can help them in person.
I see a lot of teenagers falling for the “I’m a Gazan and need help getting out.” accounts too.
I agree, and I believe that tapping in to and participating in local networks and groups whether they be fully or partially online and/or in person is beneficial for both ones self and ones community. It seems to me it will be these networks that make much of the difference between survival of large populations and large scale disasters. Community organizing is so important.
@atomicpoet @fediverse I’m glad someone brought this up. I basically assume all mutual aid posts are fraudulent unless strictly verifiable.
How is this mutual aid spam? This is by definition not mutual. It’s begging.
Mutual aid is a common term for people in a group helping each other. It doesn’t imply reciprocal transactions. But by all means, let’s ignore the topic and pick apart the exact wording.
It’s not ignoring the topic. Mutual aid is an organized operation. Literally says it the link. This is not mutual aid. The topic is about “mutual aid spam” which this is not at all an example of “mutual aid”. This is just begging or panhandling or scamming.
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They might not have known what mutual aid is and you explained it very well with the first two sentences. The last sentence doesn’t serve any useful purpose if they didn’t know.
It is “mutual aid spam” because I believe these are posted in mutual aid communities.
That’s not mutual aid that’s charity. Mutual aid is mutually beneficial to both parties.
There is an entire sub on here somewhere that is only for mutual aid. The sob stories in there are batshit crazy.
@fediverse @atomicpoet Yep! Majority of them are questionable, even those who claim they were “manually” verified by some supposedly “well-known” person. Even in the ATmosphere network, it’s the same.
Like tumblr, “you don’t understand! 90-ghost says i’m real!!”
Is it weird that I’ve never heard this term “mutual aid” before this thread but apparently everyone here knows all about it?
Anyway. There’s just no way I’d give real money to someone asking for it like this because for every real person there must be a dozen scammers at least. It honestly seems crazy to me that this could work and people could send money.
If people are giving money away like this then they’re part of the problem IMO. You’re encouraging scammers, and perpetuating the practice, diverting money away from the people who actually need it.
Mutual aid is not giving random internet assholes money because they begged for it. I’m not saying they should be banned from doing so, but calling it mutual aid is 100% a scam. Mutual aid is given freely, within a pre-established network.
Hosting a friend on your couch for a week cause they’re in between apartments is mutual aid. Feeding your friends without expecting anything in return is mutual aid. Enabling e-begging is not mutual aid.
I guess in this case it’s OP that labeled it as mutual aid rather than the requester.
It isn’t really that odd, considering you’ve only been here a couple of weeks. Mutual Aid is a foundational idea in most if not all anarchist projects and theory.
There may be many scammers, yes, but the goal remains the same - get help to those who need it from those in a position to give it.
As for being part of the problem, I must disagree. Scammers aren’t leeching just this, they’d be present in any system purporting to help others (in gov’t systems this is called fraud), the goal of these grassroots aid projects is to help those who fall through the cracks of more formalized systems and decentralize some aid in case the church/NGO/gov’t can’t or won’t help (see the Hurricane Helene/Katrina responses when FEMA is overwhelmed).
Means-testing recipients is kinda a dick move anyway: those who have demonstrable need will have a harder time getting aid and time/money that should be spent helping are now spent with verification.
Hah.
I’ve probably been kicking around the fediverse longer than you, it’s just this particular account that’s only a few weeks old.
Anyhow, feel free to continue giving money to people asking for it on lemmy i guess.
Fair 'nuff. I hadn’t really considered an alt account.
It’s not really an “alt” account, I just don’t think of user accounts as an extension of my identity, and change very regularly.
Is it an alternative account you use for differing purposes than other accounts?
This is the only account I’ve used since I created this account, and I don’t presently have any intention of using any of my other accounts again at any time.
Is it weird that I’ve never heard this term “mutual aid” before this thread but apparently everyone here knows all about it?
May be an American thing? I don’t know have never heard of it or encountered it.
It’s a very terminally online leftist thing. You would see it in communist/anarchist leftist spaces, people retweeting posts of disabled/neurodivergent people asking for help with rent.
I don’t think there is anything inherently wrong with it, and kudos to those who donate. But it quickly turns into a popularity/disability contest of who can fit the most disability categories in a GoFundMe.
Aha. I consider myself leftist, but not in the ml corner. I had never encountered it.
Cheers for explaining!
Americans have had to invent novel terms to avoid using the ‘s’ or ‘c’ word with politics. ‘Mutual aid’ is a term usually used to refer tk grassroots organizing of communities to cover basic needs like food and medicine.
Referring to a common internet scam as ‘mutual aid’ is doing more work to smear the term than anything.
I first heard it in 2019 or 2020 from the queer community but I have a feeling it has deeper roots
Originally a concept by late 19th century anarchist Peter Kropotkin:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evolution
Its tough cause we want to help people in need but also dont want to be scammed. Theres gotta be a better way to do this!
Seems like a great way to poison the concept of “mutual aid” before most people (such as OP) have even heard of it.
Lol, comments in this thread forgot the ‘mutual’ part of ‘mutual aid’ and miss the point of this post (scams in mutual aid groups)
If you think mutual aid is a one-way street (/ don’t benefit from it), is not for you, block and move on
This is nothing, on hexbear there’s a person pretending to be like half a dozen different Palestinians with different fraudulent GoFundMe. They cook up a new persona like every other week using pictures they scrape from the media and then run it through an AI filter.
Same on Bluesky. And they are everywhere. Couple of years ago some accounts did this multiple times on Imgur. Even today occasionally some pop up again, but now the users are quick to call them out…with the admins doing jack shit. Which is classic for that site.
When coming across a sob story my knee jerk reaction is “bullshit”. If you want to give money to charity, do so through a reputable organisation. And don’t trust any rando on the internet.
Sorry but that’s just funny.
It’s like grifting Trump supporters.
@atomicpoet @fediverse THX for putting this clearly on the table, I had this scepticism for some time already …
@regineheidorn @fediverse Yeah, people I know boosted her messages—which implies they may have given her money. The thing is, that grifter’s success is going to attract other grifters if this problem isn’t addressed.
@atomicpoet @fediverse Yes. And we know this from the early e-mail days already …
I see a lot of people asking for mutual aid, and it’s often “I’ve had a hard day and just want some McDonalds, please help”
OK, that’s not mutual aid, and you shouldn’t be asking for that under that hashtag. if you need help paying your rent, or with gas money so you don’t lose your job, that’s something that appropriate for mutual aid. asking for money for vices should be something you do off the hashtag, or on your OF or something. mutual aid is for people helping where they can, when they can, for problems that are serious and life-altering. and nothing else.
Mutual Aid is not charity. Mutual aid is beneficial for both parties.
Mutual aid for rent would be to join a tenants union so that people can get organized and perform a rent strike.
https://www.dissentmagazine.org/online_articles/tenant-unions-for-the-future/
Mutual Aid for food would be something like Food Not Bombs. (It’s an http site so only sign up if you’re comfortable with that.)
http://foodnotbombs.net/new_site/
Charity is not mutual aid.
I was just offered 500$ to be someone’s friend. Of course, I refused - my friendship is worth much more than that!
But it’s… concerning that we’ve got this sudden spike in spam.
The great thing about the fediverse is that it is harder to censor: as long as you find one instance where you can publish some information, you can publish it.
The bad thing about the fediverse is that it is also harder to moderate: as long as a spammer or troll finds one instance from which they can send unwanted messages, they will be able to send them.
In the long run, whitelisting may become the norm for federation instead of blacklisting.
And then we’re back to email.
…
What kind of friend are we talking about?
