On a server I have a public key auth only for root account. Is there any point of logging in with a different account?
Its a concept called defense in depth. Without root login now you require the key AND sudo password.
Also, outside of self hosted you will have multiple people logging in. You want them to log in with their own users for logging and permission management.
The sudo password can be easily extracted by modifying the bashrc.
And who is going to edit your .bashrc?
The attacker that is currently with user privileges on the server?
How did the attacker gain your user’s privileges? Malware-infected user installation? A vulnerability in genuine software running as your user? In most scenarios these things only become worse when running as root instead.
The scenario OC stated is that if the attacker has access to the user on the server then the attacker would still need the sudo password in order to get root privileges, contrary to direct root login where the attack has direct access to root privileges.
So, now i am looking into this scenario where the attack is on the server with the user privileges: the attacker now modifies for example the bashrc to alias sudo to extract the password once the user runs sudo.
So the sudo password does not have any meaningful protection, other then maybe adding a time variable which is when the user accesses the server and runs sudo
Simple solution is to not use sudo.
Sorta like Slackware’s default.And what do you suggest to use otherwise to maintain a server? I am not aware of a solution that would help here? As an attacker you could easily alias any command or even start a modified shell that logs ever keystroke and simulates the default bash/zsh or whatever.
Nah just set up PAM to use TOTP or a third party MFA service to send a push to your phone for sudo privs.
Oh that’s dastardly
that’s why root owns my .bash* stuff
I don’t think that actually works; the attacker could just remove .bashrc and create a new file with the same name.
If the .bashrc is immutable, the attacker can’t remove it.
That’s how it works.The home directory would need to be immutable, not bashrc.
you’re right. that’s something i wanted to look into. guess setfacl would do the trick?
“chattr +i” is what I use to make things immutable
This was downvoted, but is a good question.
If your account is compromised, the shell init code could be modified to install a keylogger to discover the root password. That’s correct.
Still, that capture doesn’t happen instantly. On a personal server, it could be months until the owner logs in next. On a corporate machines, there may be daily scans for signs of intrusion, malware, etc. Either way, the attacker has been slowed down and there is a chance they won’t succeed in a timeframe that’s useful to them.
It’s perhaps like a locking a bike: with right tool and enough time, a thief can steal the bike. Sometimes slowing them down sufficiently is enough to win.
@ShortN0te @truthfultemporarily What does sudo have to do with ssh keys?
Doesn’t even have to be the key necessarily. Could get in via some exploit first. Either way taking over the machine became a 2-step process.
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Unless your threat modelling includes nation-states
At which point you should have a handful of extra layers
Zero-day exploits are security holes that exist and are used by bad actors, but aren’t yet known to you, or anyone capable of closing the hole. The clock to patch the hole doesn’t start running until the exploit is known: it stands at zero days until the good guys know it exists.
What zero-day exploits exist for ssh?
By definition, you don’t know. So, you block root login, and hope the bad actor doesn’t also know a zero-day for sudo.
Yes it’s always better to login with a user and sudo so your commands are logged also having disable passwords for ssh but still using passwords for sudo gives you the best protection
Sudo also allows for granular permissions of which commands are allowed and which aren’t.
Also double check that sudo is the right command, by doing
which sudo. Something I just learned to be paranoid of in this thread.Unless
whichis also compromised, my god…which sudowill check$PATHdirectories and return the first match, true. however when you typesudoand hit enter your shell will look for aliases and shell functions before searching$PATH.to see how your shell will execute ‘sudo’, say
type sudo(zsh/bash). to skip aliases/functions/builtins saycommand sudomeh nvm none of these work if your shell is compromised. you’re sending bytes to the attacker at that point. they can make you believe anything
Maybe if you escaped the command like
\\type sudo?no, if the attacker can change files in your account, they can read every byte you type in and respond with anything, including pretending to be a normal shell. im not sure how to prevent ssh from running commands in your shell
You assume the shell isn’t compromised.
That server’s root access is now vulnerable to a compromise of the systems that have the private key.
Only the server should have the private key. Why would other systems have the private key?
The client has the private key, the server has the corresponding public key in its authorized keys file.
The server is vulnerable to the private key getting stolen from the client.
For ssh they both have private and public keys. The server could be at risk of having it’s own private key compromised if somebody breaks in, and vice versa a compromised client can lose its private key. The original wording made it sound like a compromised server would steal client keys.
Also passworded keys are recommended
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Finding an exploit in ssh is worth more than whatever your server has to offer though.
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A door with the best lock possible is still not as secure as no door at all
One always minimises attack surfaces and the possibility of fat fingered mistakes. The lower privileges that you grant yourself the better.
You’d think that Dave Cutler who, I believe, designed Windows NT coming from a Unix style background would have followed these principles but no. I discovered *nix late sadly.
If ssh has a security issue and you permit root logins then hostiles likely have an easier time getting access to root on the machine than if they only get access to your user account—then they need multiple exploits.
Generally you also want to be root as little as possible. Hence sudo, run0, etc.
I never login with the root account. Not even on the console. You don’t want everything you do running as root unless it is required. Otherwise it is much easier for a little mistake to become a big mess.
It’s a bad practice to log in as root even for administrative tasks. You need to run numerous commands, some of hem can be potentially dangerous while not requiring root privileges. So normally you have an
adminuser in thesudo/wheelgroup and need to login to this account. Also, this adds some protection in case your key has leaked.Audit trails
You can disasble passwords so ONLY keys work, and you can firewall ssh to ONLY IPs you originate from.
Just don’t forget to check if your IP has changed if ssh suddenly starts timing out with no error indication no matter what you do and oh god what is actually wrong
I think there’s a way to setup an alert for this.
Or use port-knocking.
Lots of self-important, irrational, hand-wavy responses to this question as usual.
Assuming you are the only user (sounds like it) and you secure your client device properly, then no, there is no reason not to do what you propose. Go ahead and do it, you’ll save yourself lots of redundant typing and clicking.
Others here can keep performing their security theater to ward off the evil spirits.
This is terrible advice.
“Just turn off your firewall bro, please bro, everyone just paranoid please bro enable remote root login bro 😢”
That’s not what I advised at all.
Is there any point of logging in with a different account?
When you edit & save a file as root, root takes ownership of that file. I personally don’t like having to run chmod or chown every time I make minor changes to something.
No, that’s not correct. If you create a new file as root, it will own that file. But editing an existing file doesn’t change the owner or group of that file.
Nope, not really. The only reason ppl recommend it is, because “you have then to guess the username too”. Which is just not relevant if you use strong authentication method like keys or only strong passwords.
Don’t quit your day job.
Most comments here suggest 3 things
- least privilege: Which is ok, but on a Server any modification you do requires root anyway, there is usually very little benefit
- Additional protection through required sudo password: This is for example easily circumvented by modifying the bashrc or similar with an sudo alias to get the password
- Multiuser & audittrails: yes this is a valid point, on a system that is modified or administered by multiple ppl there are various reasons lime access logging and UAC for that
An actual person from the pen testing world: https://youtu.be/fKuqYQdqRIs
That is absolutely not the reason ANYONE recommends it, unless you are a complete noob and entirely unfamiliar with computer security at all, and are just pulling assumptions out of your ass. Don’t fucking do that, don’t post with confidence when you’re just making shit up because you think you know better. Because you don’t.
If there is a vulnerability in SSH (and it’s happened before), attackers could use that to get into root directly, quickly, and easily. It’s an instant own.
If root login is disabled, it’s way less likely that whatever bug it is ALSO allows them to bypass root login being disabled. Now they have to yeah, find a user account, compromise that, try to key log or session hijack or whatever they set up, be successful, and elevate to root. That’s WAY more work, way more time to detect, to install patches.
If the effort is higher, then this kind of attack isn’t going to be used to own small fry servers; it’s only be worth it for bigger targets, even if they’re more well protected.
If you leave root enabled, you’re already burnt. You’re already a bot in the DDoS network.
And why? You couldn’t be bothered to type one extra command in your terminal? One extra word at the start of each command?
Sorry bitch, eat your fucking vegetables
The multi-tennant approach to the linux operating system isn’t just for security. It’s the way the OS was designed to operate. You’re not meant to use root as an ordinary user.
Disabling root removes the safety net, but it also plugs the security hole that leaving root enabled leaves.
