I think this is an inconsistent move from the Blahaj team. They defederated feddit over one transphobic user who the admins wouldn’t deal with. And I agree with that decision. They should make the same decision here. If lemmy.ml won’t ban Nutomic, then it’s clear they aren’t interested in creating a safe environment for trans people.
Regardless of any funding question, I think every instance should be questioning federation with .ml over their acceptance of Nutomic. And that goes double for any instance committed to inclusivity, because they have a responsibility to their users to uphold the values those users expect.
I don’t think it’s inconsistent. My understanding is that the bad comments were in private messages and although they don’t disown then or apologise for their views, they are not making transphobic comments in threads.
In the feddit case, transphobia discourse was active and unmoderated. I have no doubt that if that was the case for .ml, then blahaj would defederate.
There is no point in federation of you defederate from every instance with bad users. Ban the user, not the instance. In the case of an instance not moderating hateful content, ban the instance.
Feddit.uk was defederated because they did not address transphobia on their instance and stopped responding when I asked for clarification of how they will handle similar incidents in the future in light of the transphobic legislation introduced in the UK. If it becomes clear they are acting on transphobia, we will refederate.
lemmy.ml does act on transphobia and despite their admins comments in DM, I have seen no indication that transphobic posts are allowed to remain on their instance from admins or users. If it becomes clear they’re not acting on transphobia, we will defederate. Either way, Nutomic will remain banned.
Which is to say, neither scenario is really contingent on the actions of an individual, rather they’re contingent on how the admins respond to transphobia.
I can definitely understand how this may seem as an inconsistency on Ada’s part. I’ve been critical of Ada in the past, but I see this as more of Ada taking a calculated, diplomatic approach.
With the Feddit situation, Feddit is just another random Lemmy instance, so there’s no real loss in defederating. But ML is where Lemmy development is centered, and whether Blahaj users like it or not, they do have an intrinsic interest in the development of Lemmy’s code. They want Blahaj to be a safe space, which requires moderation tools to be developed, and it’s helpful to keep an open connection with the developers in that case so that Blahaj’s input and contributions can be considered when these tools are built.
At least, that’s just my speculation as to why there’s an inconsistency.
I think it would be better for Lemmy’s development if everyone defederated lemmy.ml. If Dessalines weren’t so busy banning users on other instances for pointing out the Uyghur genocide, he’d have a lot more time to write code.
the devs of lemmy are already working on it full time. they’re not the ones who do most of the moderation work.
the thing i’ve always hated about most people outside ml is that they always make assumptions, not even wondering if what they’re saying might be false. if you’re gonna be prissy about something, at least get your facts straight.
edit: sorry about the last paragraph. i just supposed that you were making stuff up because i couldn’t find the modlog, but didn’t know any better.
Just to clarify, the defederation from feddit.uk has more to do with the admins allowing transphobic comments to remain because of the EHRC ruling and then ghosting Ada when asked to clarify their policies around dealing with transphobia. It wasn’t just one user.
I still agree with considering lemmy.ml for defederation.
At this point, the admin stopped responding to my messages despite being active elsewhere on lemmy.
This is not true though. This was clarified by the feddit.uk admins.
I was the Admin who was contacted by Ada and that is a mischaracterisation of what I said. Our rules still stand that we won’t allow transphobia.
Unfortunately, as the ruling on the interpretation of the law has recently changed, we are going to have to figure out how we approach this and that is going to require a consensus amongst the Admins, and an agreement on our wording going forward.
This is going to take a bit for us to work out (although not too long, we’re getting there, I have been active on Lemmy but I don’t call the shots, and we need input from all Admins) and if, in the meantime, LBZ feel we aren’t moving fast enough and they need to defederate from us then that is obviously their right.
I think this is an inconsistent move from the Blahaj team. They defederated feddit over one transphobic user who the admins wouldn’t deal with. And I agree with that decision. They should make the same decision here. If lemmy.ml won’t ban Nutomic, then it’s clear they aren’t interested in creating a safe environment for trans people.
Regardless of any funding question, I think every instance should be questioning federation with .ml over their acceptance of Nutomic. And that goes double for any instance committed to inclusivity, because they have a responsibility to their users to uphold the values those users expect.
I don’t think it’s inconsistent. My understanding is that the bad comments were in private messages and although they don’t disown then or apologise for their views, they are not making transphobic comments in threads.
In the feddit case, transphobia discourse was active and unmoderated. I have no doubt that if that was the case for .ml, then blahaj would defederate.
There is no point in federation of you defederate from every instance with bad users. Ban the user, not the instance. In the case of an instance not moderating hateful content, ban the instance.
Feddit.uk was defederated because they did not address transphobia on their instance and stopped responding when I asked for clarification of how they will handle similar incidents in the future in light of the transphobic legislation introduced in the UK. If it becomes clear they are acting on transphobia, we will refederate.
lemmy.ml does act on transphobia and despite their admins comments in DM, I have seen no indication that transphobic posts are allowed to remain on their instance from admins or users. If it becomes clear they’re not acting on transphobia, we will defederate. Either way, Nutomic will remain banned.
Which is to say, neither scenario is really contingent on the actions of an individual, rather they’re contingent on how the admins respond to transphobia.
Here’s Nutomic still being transphobic on lemmy.ml 9 days ago, with bonus commentary from people who were there at the time:
https://lemmy.ml/post/29579005/18413354
I can definitely understand how this may seem as an inconsistency on Ada’s part. I’ve been critical of Ada in the past, but I see this as more of Ada taking a calculated, diplomatic approach.
With the Feddit situation, Feddit is just another random Lemmy instance, so there’s no real loss in defederating. But ML is where Lemmy development is centered, and whether Blahaj users like it or not, they do have an intrinsic interest in the development of Lemmy’s code. They want Blahaj to be a safe space, which requires moderation tools to be developed, and it’s helpful to keep an open connection with the developers in that case so that Blahaj’s input and contributions can be considered when these tools are built.
At least, that’s just my speculation as to why there’s an inconsistency.
I think it would be better for Lemmy’s development if everyone defederated lemmy.ml. If Dessalines weren’t so busy banning users on other instances for pointing out the Uyghur genocide, he’d have a lot more time to write code.
the devs of lemmy are already working on it full time. they’re not the ones who do most of the moderation work.
the thing i’ve always hated about most people outside ml is that they always make assumptions, not even wondering if what they’re saying might be false. if you’re gonna be prissy about something, at least get your facts straight.
edit: sorry about the last paragraph. i just supposed that you were making stuff up because i couldn’t find the modlog, but didn’t know any better.
Ha.
Just to clarify, the defederation from feddit.uk has more to do with the admins allowing transphobic comments to remain because of the EHRC ruling and then ghosting Ada when asked to clarify their policies around dealing with transphobia. It wasn’t just one user.
I still agree with considering lemmy.ml for defederation.
Source? That’s not what the feddit.uk admins said.
They dont act against transphobia and they literally ghosted ada Source
This is not true though. This was clarified by the feddit.uk admins.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/42943344/18287800
As a feddit.nl user it would help if you included the TLD, there are several servers that call themselves feddit. 😊
I forgot which one it was