Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728

Ahoy mateys!

A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.

But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …

More context

Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.

As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …

Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.

In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.

Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated

i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it

  • gigachad@piefed.socialEnglish
    34·
    2 months ago

    I mean “leftist organization” is a weird term and I would more speak of currents. And there is definitely the Antideutsche or Anti-Germans.

    The German left, at least the loud one, is publically dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.

      • LeninWeave [they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
        45·
        2 months ago

        Seriously, imagine typing “there is often only ‘anti genocide and pro genocide’ in online discussions” and thinking “yes, I will post this and look like a very good and moral person”. Yes, if you’re not against genocide you’re for genocide. Yes, if you think supporting the resistance to genocide is antisemitic, you are a genocidal zionist. This type of “nuanced” “anti-zionism” (liberal zionism) is also widespread on feddit.org.

        • hector@lemmy.todayEnglish
          22·
          2 months ago

          By fucking german law at that. And they enforce it too. Never again, as defined by nihlists with no soul serving the plutocracy while the far right takes their country from them and fixes elections while they are busy surrendering their people to tech.

          • LeninWeave [they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            25·
            2 months ago

            One of them was extremely offended in another thread when I replied to them with “I was just following orders”. hahaha

        • Pamasich@kbin.earth
          19·
          2 months ago

          What I think they meant was that people here only think about the genocide and thus declare the perpetrators evil (which they are) and the victims the good guys (hamas are not).

          One side’s atrocities don’t justify the other side’s. Excusing your own group’s actions because they’re the good guys is far right thinking.

          In reality there’s more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn’t make the other good.

          • LeninWeave [they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
            31·
            2 months ago

            declare the perpetrators evil (which they are)

            Correct.

            and the victims the good guys (hamas are not)

            You’re wrong, Hamas are in fact “the good guys” in this conflict. The resistance to the genocidal settler state are good even if they don’t measure up to whatever arbitrary standard of perfection you have in mind.

            One side’s atrocities don’t justify the other side’s. Excusing your own group’s actions because they’re the good guys is far right thinking.

            Bullshit framing designed to try to equate between the invading settler state (with overwhelming firepower) and the (often barely adult) native resistance just trying to survive and protect their homes.

            In reality there’s more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn’t make the other good.

            “Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.”

          • BrainInABox@lemmy.mlEnglish
            20·
            2 months ago

            In this particular conflict, Hamas very much are the good guys (if we have to think in such childish terms) in the same way that the allies were the good guys in World War 2 despite the fact they were mostly genocidal empires themselves. Hell, Hamas are far less evil than almost every western government, especially the German one, because they aren’t actively supporting mass genocide.

            You condemn all groups actually fighting against Isreals genocide. That is just supporting the Genocide with extra steps

    • brognak@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      36·
      2 months ago

      Saying Hamas is antisemitic is sure fire sign of being a Zionist.

      Palestinians are a semitic people.

      If you want to saw that Hamas hates Jews, well, when your entire life has been being bombed by planes with stars of David on them, while jackbooted thugs with stars of David on their shoulder kick in your door to kidnap your family members in the night, and settlers with star of David necklaces show up and claim your home and land by divine right, I can start to see where you develop feelings toward the people who carry the same sign.

      Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim as they are so fucking desperate to do.

      • 7101334@lemmy.worldEnglish
        28·
        2 months ago

        Maybe, just maybe, if Israel wanted the world to be a safer place for Jews they would stop associating a genocide with Judaisim

        You probably already know this, but Israel wants the world to be a more dangerous place for Jews to justify Israel’s illegitimate existence and aggression. That’s why they conducted terrorist attacks against Ethiopian Jews, to convince them that they needed to move to Israel as it’s the only safe place for them… where they’re then met by deep-rooted racism.

      • nat1@ttrpg.networkEnglish
        6·
        2 months ago

        Antisemitic clearly means anti-Jewish. Sure it technically means all Semitic people, and as such a better word could have been used so long ago, but it’s intended and in use meaning today is very clearly defined. Jewish people have been some of the biggest victims of Middle Eastern and European hate for thousands of years.

        You’re doing the #AllLivesMatter of religious hate.

        • mathemachristian [he/him]@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
          3·
          2 months ago

          Islamophobia is much more prevalent in the west than antijudaism. There is islamophobia on a systemic level. And lets not pretend that it’s directed only at muslims but arabs in general. Crying “antisemitism!!” about an indigenous armed resistance movement is the #alllivesmatter of this conflict.

    • LeninWeave [they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      30·
      2 months ago

      The German left, at least the loud one, is public ally dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.

      This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.

      That makes you a “Zionist” on Lemmy, as there is often only “anti genocide and pro genocide” in online discussions.

      Thank you again for clarifying which side you are on.

    • Twongo [she/her]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      19·
      2 months ago

      ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it’ll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers

    • Count042@lemmy.mlEnglish
      19·
      2 months ago

      Spoken like someone that condemned the ANC as terrorists in the 80’s.

      “Sure, apartheid is wrong, but the people suffering it and fighting it are the worst” <— you.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.mlEnglish
      13·
      2 months ago

      What’s wrong with the term “leftist organization?” Educate, agitate, organize is the common saying, organizing is the fundamental task of leftists.

    • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.worldEnglish
      8·
      2 months ago

      Don’t be discouraged. Personally I don’t have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these “leftist” ignoramuses whose obsession with “Zionism” leads them to support literal fascism) but it’s important that somebody makes the points you’re making.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      2 months ago

      My favorite part is pointing out that most israelis are not white westerners, but from other middle eastern countries who were fleeing persecution in those countries and are more arab than western in terms of ethnicity and history.

      But that doesn’t fit the nice narrative that all Israelis are white colonlizer/invaders from europe or something. Literally never had it acknowledged once, just denied and told that it is zionist propaganda.