• Frozentea725@feddit.uk
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        2 months ago

        Great response, people just love to parrot easy dismissals without looking and the sheer magnitude on innovation and commercialisation going on in this sector

        • tb_@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          It doesn’t really dispute it, though. Lithium-ion has seen a lot of improvement, yes, because it’s already a giant industry; other battery chemistries have a hard time breaking through because they require entirely different processes to manufacture.
          I’m still rooting for it, but it’s not really the same thing.

      • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        TBF, there are a lot of “battery breakthroughs” that turn out to just be hot air. Battery technology has made tremendous progress though and there is still a lot of room for improvement.

        • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          There actually is not a lot of room for improvement. Highest energy will still be limited to lithium chemistry because of the periodic table.

          • Diplomjodler@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            That’s a limit on gravimetric energy density. There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

            • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

              You don’t know that. This is chemistry, not Moore’s stupid law.

      • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Weird, I didn’t know Lithium-Ion batteries were still in the lab. I thought for sure we were using those already. I thought the batteries in the labs were various solid-state batteries like graphene or like this sodium-ion battery, where there’s been a rise in patents around it but not a lot delivered

        • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          There are a bunch of lithium ion chemistries that have come to market more recently.

          LFP sits in the low cost marker while NCA is the highest performing of the mass market batteries, and NMC is somewhere in between.

          Sodium might be coming for LFP’s low cost position, and is already beginning mass production (some Chinese manufacturers expect those models to hit the road in a few months).

          If you think rechargeable battery R&D from 10 years ago isn’t making it into mass produced products today, you’re just not paying attention.

          • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            There are a bunch of lithium ion chemistries that have come to market more recently

            Like what? [Citation required]

            If you think rechargeable battery R&D from 10 years ago isn’t making it into mass produced products today, you’re just not paying attention.

            Please provide examples.

            I mean, as much as a person who doesn’t work in research and development of energy storage, or work in industries directly related to it, I personally feel I’ve kept up. The day Donut Labs announced their battery I was watching review videos about it, and I want to believe, but until I see it for purchase, I’m not going to call it a win.

            • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Like what?

              Wasn’t LFP commercialized at EV scale like a decade ago? It went from like 0% market share to majority market share in about a decade.

      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        All that data says is batteries got cheaper so they are putting more of them into cars. Also 100 to 300 wh/kg is in labs. No explanation why it went from 175 to 100 Wh/kg 08-10.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        2 months ago

        I mean the first diagram is effectively useless without knowledge of battery density. They as well could compare the 2010 compacts with 2025s SUVs which have probably 2x the amount of total capacity.
        For the other charts: Agreed.