The question is prompted by the age verification app that the EU has just presented.
Some EU countries want to ban social media for young people. If that were to happen, what then?
I would only ever sign up for an instance that is not subject to it, or does not comply, or at least maliciously complies. And by malicious compliance I mean something where it’s implemented in such a “buggy” way that it’s easy to bypass.
But really I’d just go for instances hosted outside the EU.
This is precisely the point of literally all the recent new laws regulating online platforms, including this.
To kill smaller ones that can’t comply with those laws, so that only large ones remain (if at all) and it is easier to censor and surveil the users there.
I just hope that at some point, people will figure out how wrong politicians of the 2020s were to do all of this, and a new free and open Internet will rise from the ashes as long as any remain.
Unfortunately, the general public has no idea whatsoever of the Fediverse and doesn’t care about the monopoly of information, mega platforms abusing your data, privacy, and so on and so forth. I’m old enough to finally have come to the conclusion that progress is not made by the masses but by smart, motivated and usually underappreciated individuals. Sadly.
I was already posting on web forums (also wikis) before Facebook or Twitter became popular, when the Internet was not yet very established and posting things on it oneself was something only few people thought of doing.
I was outright excited when I saw “social media” becoming more mainstream. I thought at the time, at least more people are using the Internet, even if it’s “just” Facebook or Twitter (which I didn’t and still don’t see much value in), at least it’s the Internet, that’s a good thing because the Internet is a great and exciting thing for society and a wonderful source of entertainment!
Now we live in a world where the general public mostly only knows how to operate social media apps, otherwise has no tech proficiency at all, doesn’t even know what else is out there on the Internet, and doesn’t know or care how the social media apps they’re using are designed to manipulate them. And politicians are busy working to make it harder for good idealistic people to solve those problems. :(
Small platforms are excluded but don’t let that get in the way of your hysteria
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Yeah that’s how laws work, if it included them it would be a different law or a significantly different proposal.
From some things maybe. Plenty of recent “online safety” style laws around the world have no exceptions based on platform size.
We are talking about a specific thing: https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/policies/dsa-vlops
You are talking about the DSA.
There is no reason to believe that future social media bans will have such exceptions. VDL said explicitly that the app means that there are “no more excuses”.
The DSA excludes small platforms from some rules, so as not to overwhelm start-ups with bureaucracy. Clearly, such considerations are to be neutralized in the future.
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How on earth would the EU possibly do this given the entire structure is federated?
They likely don’t even know what Lemmy is.
Good point. European governments keep churning out the digital regulation, but have hardly any qualified people to enforce them. That has protected the Fediverse, so far.
But a straight age-gating requirement would require no particular qualifications to spot. Would you be willing to face a hefty fine just for the privilege of running an instance?
It should not. Fuck the police.
Personally I’d want to see at least some instances behind i2p or tor as it’s really the only answer to all the censorship coming.
Doubtful it ever will happen I mean that stuffs had a lot of time to take off and hasn’t as yet.
I wish the fediverse would allow federating with Tor-protected instances
What prevents this? Is it just that you would a need a server that is a bridge on both networks?
I think it’s doable if the server can connect to the onion network on its side
A related question that comes to mind is what jurisdiction’s laws should we all be exploring to avoid age verification completely?
I’m not suggesting we all get legal degrees or dispense legal advice, but as conscientious people who are also literate: Should the Fediverse identify lists of these jurisdictions for its community of small to very large instances, and resources to help decide whether those laws of favourable jursidictions should be adopted and some common pitfalls?
We all see the headlines of countries exploring bans on under 16s for social media in the name of improved ad and online surveillance. Which are the countries who are saying no or will resist this?
Not at all.
Protest any age verification laws by not regarding them.
Move servers to a country without stupid laws and ignoring the notices/threats. Sure, they might block you in that country, but people will find a way.
Pretty sure 4chan still hasn’t paid fines to UK and doesn’t plan to as UK can’t really enforce such things abroad, they can just block you in their own country if you refuse.
To consider the possibility is part of accepting that it will happen, making it much easier to actually happen. First, I think, people should pressure so it doesn’t get to pass, as they seem to be against it. If the worst scenario does come, then people can consider what’s the least bad route of actions.
We shouldn’t go down without a fight, out plan A must be to prevent dystopia. And you are right that asking "what if"s can encourage a feeling of defeatism by distracting from plan A, however it’s generally not bad to think about a plan B ahead of time.
First of all we should submerge the EU parliament with protests, as we did for the chat-control question. Then protest marches, strikes, and so on. Then simple non-compliance. Whatever is undemocratic has automatically null morally legal validity.
I think we can still use the https://fightchatcontrol.eu/ platform for this. Just need to change the text and protest against age verification.
It shouldn’t, just host it somewhere else where legislation doesn’t apply.
No offence to those that run various instances but the LAST thing I would want is for any of them to deal with this stuff on their own servers. that’s just a massive can of worms I would assume even they wouldn’t want to open.
The DSA isn’t a one size fits all. It uses a tiered system where the most intense rules—like mandatory age verification—are aimed at the Very Large Online Platforms (VLOPs). The law was clearly designed with Big Tech monoliths in mind, so it doesn’t really fit the decentralized nature of the Fediverse. Small instances largely gets a free pass; the focus is on targeting the platforms that actually have the scale to cause systemic risk. I think the limit is drawn at 45 million users. No instance in the EU will (hopefully) become that big!
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And the winner for first slipper Nipple post is you.
yeah a different law or amended law could be different, it could punish posting by death, let’s stick to the actual law being proposed
I hadn’t considered if existing legislation might already require implementing an age verification when l posed the question. Now that you bring it up, I fear it does.
The DSA has exceptions for small companies. But I would caution that there is no case law that supports your interpretation that users should be counted on a per-instance basis. Courts are often not very receptive to attempts to avoid rules through such formalities. Bear in mind that the DSA is supposed to protect the “fundamental rights” of Europeans, which may not include running an instance.
Other laws do not have such exceptions. This app seems poised to become the required age verification mechanism, wherever age should be known. Either use the app or show you have something better.
In January, a Berlin court ruled that TikTok was in violation of the GDPR for not doing enough age checking. It’s being appealed. It remains to be seen how much of that case will be applicable to the Fediverse. But there is a good chance, that even without new laws, age-gating will become mandatory through case law.
A prompt at sign-in:
“Are you 18 or older?”
Yes: let’s you in
No: lets you in
I wish it was so simple
