Pre-election?
So many people talking about how they don’t care about who is elected next resounds of the remarkable privelage of someone who doesn’t need to care about the result. Like calling against “”" Blue MAGA"“” and “Vote Blue No Matter Who.”
I’m a trans person, who exactly are you asking me to vote for? Have you ever seen a republican politician. Describe to me which republican politician doesn’t want to take away the rights of trans people?
To you they may mean nothing, to me it’s everything and you CANNOT convince me by insulting me. The democrats wish to use people like me as a token, it’s degrading, digusting, and I hate them every step of the way. The republicans want me dead.
These two sides are different and if you wish for me to vote someone different get someone on stage who gives a shit about people like me and I’ll vote for them under any banner. Until then the future is looking pretty blue.
This comment section right here is all the proof that there will be no salvation in November.
Every pig-ignorant savior is so absolutely certain that their ideologically pure solution is the only acceptable way to fix anything that everyone is going to cancel each other out and it’s just going to continue sliding towards the cliff edge.
Under NO circumstances attempt to learn ANY lessons from parliamentary coalitions who banded together to stop the hijacking of their governments by radical fascists despite sweeping policy disagreements. Everyone keep nitpicking every minute detail, make no compromises whatsoever no matter the costs, and make stupid, pointless, self-destructive, aggrandizing gestures so you can talk down to strangers on the internet, and enjoy the ride to hell.
For anyone who needs to hear it, that’s not an excuse to not criticize whatever your side is.
I’ve heard so called “liberal” media discuss and condemn Hassan Piker more than I’ve seen them discuss and condemn Trump and all his lackeys combined.
They’re the definition of controlled opposition.
Why yes, I have noticed the pre-election uptick of posts like this designed to prep the masses to slavishly vote for whatever do-nothing Biden/Kamala/Hillary joke candidate the establishment will be choosing for us next time. If Kamala won we’d all be having brunch right now, right?
Well this comment section is a fucking dumpster fire. I guess MAGA trolls are back on the menu, bois.
The comments are heartening. The parties are more alike than they are dissimilar. One is a better class of criminal, for sure, but neither is worth supporting carte blanche. There are a handful of elected Democrats who are worth supporting, but the longer they are exposed to the DNC “moderates,” the more they expose themselves to the weakness that most humans succumb to.
Show me a Blue No Matter Who voter, and I’ll show you someone who willingly gives their time and money to a billionaire who owns a pro sports team that already has ripped off the community they live in for millions of dollars in ballpark deals.
BlueMAGA, now as into conspiracy theories as their red bretheren, and for the same reasons.
I’m sorry you’re worried that the Democrats strategy of doing nothing might not pay off, and that endorsing genocide still is such a loser issue. But that doesn’t mean the people refusing to share your party loyalty over any common sense are part of a conspiracy, foreign or domestic.
Idk for US politics but at least in France change came much faster from outside of the pseudo left party Democat equivalent (PS) rather than inside. By fast I mean 10+ years but still the leftist party that is in best place to win présidentiel election broke all links with the establishment and that how they won popular vote.
Its almost as if these posts are put up to be divisive, and to keep any opposition to the current right wing neoliberal order divided. Huh.
Yes, I’ve noticed. The electoralists have started their screeching as they do very two years. They’re like cicadas.
Vote Democrats if there is no progressive alternative. But always primary progressives in Democratic primaries.
Vote Blue No Matter Who 💙
I’m definitely not in a cult 😊
But you would support Russian and Chinese genocide of Ukrainians and Uyghurs, respectively.
Russia is doing war, not genocide. Ukraine was doing genocide in Donbass before Russia invaded. (And in the vein of “Jesus Fucking Christ I can’t believe it’s actually necessary to say this, but ShitLibs are so utterly illiterate as to make it necessary”: no, I don’t believe that’s the actual reason Russia invaded. Stopping that genocide was more of a happy accident.)
The only source for “Chinese Genocide of Uyghurs” is one right wing theocrat in Austria with a self-professed “mission from God to fight against Communism”. He does have CIA contacts, but he doesn’t read or speak a lick of Mandarin. Oh, and a few actual terrorists that the US found convenient to help destabilize China.
You can look up for yourself the video of Col Lawrence Wilkerson (US intelligence) addressing the Ron Paul Institute and laying out the entire playbook a few years before the accusations started.
Looks like tankies and bots are working overtime.
What an erudite rebuttal. You sure disproved what I said with the absolutely no information you provided.
I assume the fact that you didn’t actually address either point is due to the fact that you know what instead dnwas correct and you’re salty your cable news talking heads haven’t given you the right talking points to get around that?
Sure tankie. Here’s another 50c. Now go away and add that 50c to buy a plane ticket out of Russia before it becomes a Chinese vassal.
Yeah, you clearly don’t have any actual rebuttal. I’d guess that you know I’m right and it pisses you off, so you’re lashing out. But I really don’t care very much. If your next response doesn’t actually address anything I’ve said, then you can fuck off to the block list and everyone who reads this later can know for absolutely certain that you agree I’m right, you just hate that fact.
Lmao, do you actually think that “Uyghur genocide” means that China is carpet bombing Xinjiang 🤣
“Genocide” in China’s case means cultural genocide. It stands in for forced assimilation. China isn’t bombing every single school and hospital in Xinjiang and massacring hundreds of thousands of Uyghur people dumbass. And I don’t support the treatment of Uyghurs in China, nor do I support Ukraine’s invasion.
And this comment was really eye-opening. You American libs have made the word ‘genocide’ so fucking meaningless that you just throw it around for every single thing, including regular invasions. You didn’t watch the video I sent you of an actual genocide, did you?
The entirety of the Muslim world agrees that what China is doing is absolutely not genocide. Cultural or otherwise.
Okay I misunderstood your initial comment. I thought you were being one of those tankies.
How’s that revolution coming along?
Yes, you are right, the alternative to not voting for a genocidal fascist is immediate revolution. Good little lib.
You’ve had over 100 years, so it’s just around the corner right?
I support voting jackass, just not for genocidal neoliberals and DSA entryists. I know this will be shocking to you, but we have leftist parties in my country.
Maybe you can form one as well? Is that too much to ask of Americans?
No, do NOT do this. This just gives a boundary to the left and none to the right of the Democratic Party.
Always vote for “progressives” (or ideally socialists) in the primary. If you’re in a red state, consider even voting and running in the GOP primary instead.
If your candidate loses the primary, VOTE AGAINST THE PARTY IN THE GENERAL. Make it apparent that they either move to the left, or they lose.
And - crucially - join and form organizations that publicly state they will do exactly this.
VOTE AGAINST THE PARTY IN THE GENERAL
No, no, and no. Shit like that is how we got Trump. Stupid protest votes are not what’s needed right now.
Does it suck? Yes. Do you just have to hold your nose and do it? Yes. But voting against things or not voting is what put us in this situation.
The primaries are the time to push things left.
Not just no but hellfuck no.
If you’re a safe vote for the party, there is no reason they should ever even consider what you want when deciding on policy.
The primaries are the time to push things left.
The General is the time to punish sliding right.
Protest votes are exactly what’s needed right now.
Shit like that is how we got Trump
This statement tells me that you still don’t understand why Trump was a viable candidate (remember, wannabe fascist strongmen have run in the Republican primary since forever. They didn’t used to get the time of day from GOP primary voters).
Shit like voting Blue No Matter Who even after the Clintons sold the party body and soul to Wall St is how we got Trump. Ending Welfare as we know it is how we got Trump. Running on codifying Roe and abandoning the idea before the inauguration party hangovers have cleared is how we got Trump. Refusing to prosecute torture under Bush II and extending the Bush Tax Cuts is how we got Trump. Passing “insurance reform” that didn’t create a public option and did give private health insurance corps 5 consecutive quarters of record profits is how we got Trump. Using Ukraine as a pawn to fight a proxy war with Russia is how we got Trump.
I could go on, but if you refuse to see it with all that then there’s no hope for you anyway.
Shit like that is how we got Trump. Stupid protest votes are not what’s needed right now.
It literally is not. Go do the math yourself - there is literally not ONE state where protest votes, even counting right wing ones, made up the difference Kamala lost by.
The problem is that people, RIGHTFULLY SO, see that there’s no effect to their vote, and don’t bother voting for Democrats.
You want to fix that, you clean out the Democratic Party. And the way you do that is exactly how I describe above. You want to not have to fight the leadership, you’re going to continue to get the same failure you have for over 2 decades now. And that is how you got Trump.
I think you underestimate the number of people who protest voted by refusing to vote at all, which is neither an actual protest vote nor the same type of problem. Not that I think it would have been a guaranteed tipping point, but it sure would have made things a bit closer. Compound that with one of the (designed) effects of the electoral college (devaluing voter turnout in high-population states), and you widen that gap much more.
“America will have the most lethal military” and other signalings in favor of status quo imperialism sure did kill any interest for many left wingers to vote, and anecdotally I know many of my left-proclaiming peers took that as reason to forego the polls altogether.
I think you underestimate the number of people who protest voted by refusing to vote at all
So what you’re actually trying to say is that people not voting is how we got Trump? Because calling not votes protest votes is just beyond confusing.
You’re not incorrect - but honestly, blaming the voters rather than the candidate seems insane. Especially since 7 million more voters HAD come out in 2020, and the Democrats avoided even the appearance of a primary in 2024.
but it sure would have made things a bit closer
horseshoes and grenades
But why be partisan? Why not vote independently, after an earnest scrutiny of the candidates and issues, for the welfare of the people as a whole? It sounds good and it would be very nice if it would work. It would also be nice if pi were exactly 3.000 instead of a bothersome 3.14159 plus.
There are two reasons, one moral and one practical. The practical reason is this: You simply cannot be effective in politics unless you join in the process of compromise and conciliation whereby free men merge little groups into big groups until they accomplish a government. If you are not partisan you are on your own, everybody is out of step but Johnny, and the chances that you can have any effect on how this country is run are 140,000,000 to one against you.
–Robert A. Heinlein, Take Back Your Government
The time to argue and complain about candidates is during the primaries. When a candidate for a party has been chosen you vote with the party. Out system is the way it is and no amount of protest votes are going to fix it. Do not vote 3rd party in the general election.
Im going to write in Hillary
Lemmy users in socialism.ml actually define Putin as progressive (I wish I was joking)
EDIT: look at them all brigading me below. PUTIN SUCKS and North Korea is an authoritarian shithole!
Can you post a screenshot of this? It sounds believable, but I’d rather have concrete evidence.
Where? I would love to see one case of this happening.
I would show you, but mods deleted all my comments! Just criticize Putin, Stalin or Kim Jogn Un in the socialism.ml or memes.ml instance and you’ll instantly have -10 downvotes and probably a ban
That doesn’t make sense. We’re not looking for your comments.
He said he would like to see one case of this happening… a comment would demonstrate that
No, he said he would like to see an example of an .ml user calling Putin progressive. Are you drunk?
Could we please not resort to ad hominem attacks and insults, “Nonconfrontational”? This isn’t Reddit.
Logically, I don’t follow where that was specifically asked, but here’s a comment calling Putin’s Russia progressive: https://lemmy.ml/comment/27815508
lmao pointing out that the US has more people imprisoned than the USSR is not a mossad psyop
I am glad that people like you get banned
Its awesome how these people can just make up bullshit and never get punished on their instance.
I suppose thats a universal issue, but its still egregious.literally every time someone is like ‘woe is me the tankies got me, all i did was speak truth to power’ i look at the modlog and it’s them insulting people or being a reactionary
The only insult is your support of Putin and Stalin.
I’ve been banned for stating North Korea is an authoritarian shithole. Is that bullshit, in your opinion?
Considering what shows up in the modlog about you, and how you presented the same situation, I’m quite certain you werent just some uwu smol bean who merely said a country was authoritarian. You might have more succes talking about how unreasonable moderation is on specific instances, if you actually tell the truth about what happened.
That was not the comment I was banned for, and you know it.
80% of that figure weren’t imprisoned, they were on probation! Clearly misinformation when you look at the facts… that upsets Stalinists.
Have a sense of humor!
You got banned for repeatedly calling things you disagreed with a “mossad psyop” while completely failing to engage with any argument presented to you. You did not get banned for a specific comment, but for you behavior throughout the thread.
I love how you can just make shit up and libs eat it like slop, as long as its about someone they’re preconditioned to hate.
It really weakens your position too. Because people who aren’t familiar with the issue will see one side blatantly strawmanning and when they see the other side not mentioning that at all, they’ll just awesome the first side is full of shit. Even if their positions are corrects.
I find that .ml can sometimes be questionable, but yeah that sounds like a claim that needs evidence.
If they ever source their claims they always either point towards
- a singular incident by a new account
- someone saying something other than what they claim is being said
- someone who got banned for their reactionary tendencies
- a comment that got removed for its reactionary tendencies
Yeah, if its common there should be plenty of highly upvoted comments like that, and not just a meme/shitpost either.
Well, to be fair, they’re a bunch of idiots. So… no need to take them any more serious than you would MAGA.
This is the way, at least until we get rid of First Past the Post and other Ordinal voting systems.
Score, STAR, or Approval would all make primaries unnecessary, and also reward people for honestly voting their preferences. Which is sort of why there’s so much pushback against them.
But since the people benefitting from the current setup are the ones who’ll have to agree to change it and create the new system, there is absolutely no hope of ever peacefully ending the current status quo.
Except for the fact that pretty much every single progressive in Congress or on the ballot is in favor of some form of electoral reform.
But like you said, obviously nothing at all can be done, you know, besides voting for them.
And the people who actually control the party, decide what legislation gets a vote, and punish members who go against leadership will never allow it to happen, nor will they allow any of those progressive politicians to succeed them in their positions of power. Progressives are allowed on the party bcs they help keep the left flank in line, but they will never be allowed to hold any real power. That might threaten the Wall St donation gravy train, and the Third Way Foundation assholes who have a death grip on the power structures of the party will kill everyone on Earth before they give up that money.
Ah, defeatism. And basically telling other people to not even try.
I’d expect nothing less from .ml
Lol, the people insisting that continuing to do the exact thing that got is here is the only viable way to change things accusing others of defeatism will never stop being hilarious.
Now do the one where you pretend Democrats have passed a bill that helped the working class more than it helped Wall St any time in the last forty fucking years, that’s always a riot!
Did you vote for progressives in the primaries?
No? you just want to feel superior by representing the very meme at the top of the page? Sure. Just shut the fuck up until after the election because the rest of us need to be the adult in the room. The simple reality is that thanks to First Past the Post you have exactly two choices.
Pro-fascism or anti-fascism. If you refuse to make a choice, well guess what, thanks to FPtP, you’ve chosen pro-fascism. That’s the hell we live in.
If you tell others to not vote, then you’ve again chosen the pro-fascism side and are a piece of shit on top of it.
Somehow not defeatism: We have to vote for the democrats, dont you dare think a better world is possible
Did you vote for progressives in the primaries? Actually I don’t care, the primaries are over, you fuck with the dick you’ve got, not the one you wish you had.
Tankies won’t but the effort into voting but want to be perceived as serious to actually be marching in the streets.
They have some real criticism of the dem establishment, but no real perspective that they are surrendering office to fascism.
i get called a tankie all the time and i vote in every election from the municipal up.
the democrats are not a serious opposition party, many democrats in blue states are essentially just republicans who learned how to not openly say slurs in college (think people like seth moulton)
they squat on power and are not credible opponents to fascism, only to thier left do they actually put up a fight.
why would they? they have unlimited money and legions of people willing to debase themselves defending any incompetence out of pure team loyalty.
I think you need to put more weight on their qualifier word “peacefully”.
Do you have enough guns to fight the US military? No? Well neither do I.
Which is why there are steps that must be followed. And right now those are peaceful protest and voting. Making sure everyone votes.
The time for violence is likely coming, but it has to be after the election. After Trump blatantly ignores the will of the people.
The violence in the street is already happening. The violence in the courtrooms is already happening. The violence in universities is already happening. The violence in the legislative chambers is already happening. The violence at the homes of resistant politicians is already happening. Roll over, if you must.
You sweet summer child, you think you know what violence is. You most certainly do not.
No revolution has ever succeeded without the aid of the military. If the left kicks of the violent resistance too early, the military will not side with us, and in fact will join in the hunting us down part of things.
That’s why we have to follow specific steps. First is peaceful protest. Second is voting.
Third is violence. And if we get steps one and two right, we might not have our homes bombed as we sleep.
You missed the “vote progressive in the primaries” part
Nope. I spent a decade working my ass off to do that and worked my way up to being a paid campaign staffer for progressive candidates.
I suggest you do the same so that you can learn what I did: the people who control the levers of power in the party will allow progressives to be elected, it helps keep the left flank in line, but they will never allow progressives to have enough power to change the fundamental nature of the party as a machine that turns bribes into Wall St friendly legislation.
Issue with that tactic is that it’s actively being used to justify Chuck Schumer’s “for every big city liberal we alienate, we will gain 3 to 4 hillbillies from the rural area” schtick, which is costing democrats elections and us (the world) the real progressive movement.
Just tell Schumer his shtick cost everyone two presidential elections.
He doesn’t care.
The Democratic leadership would rather lose to the right than win with the left. Because the leadership is far to the right of the base.
One of those ticks is “genocide” (millions of people).
Another is “corporations enslaving 1-3 trillions animals in torturous conditions their entire lives”.
Another is “corporations torturing 2-6 trillion animals to death every year”.
Another is “omnicidal climate change” (billions of people and many trillions of other animals).
The 2 sides are not the same, but certain existential and unethical issues actively supported by both sides mean that some people don’t want to vote for either of the evil sides who crossed clearly psychotic lines, and prefer to instead vote for decent Green people like Nader.
The rest of the ticks on the other side are things like “eww fat”, “has a bad spraytan”, “looks gross”, “sounds dumb” and “worse administrator”.
That’s it. That’s the practical difference between the two parties of fascists. One is more polite and better at managing empire. That’s not enough of a difference for me.The issue with a dominant two party system is that voting for a third party gives power to the most centralised party.
I doubt many republicans are going to vote third party. If too many non republicans vote third party the republicans win easily.
This is a well known political mechanism.
The more effective action is to vote for the party than can actually win from the party you want least.
My personal opinion, vote for facism light and then when they win absolute riot and grill them and start protesting over the fact that they are facism light. People always seem to forget the second part. As an other commenter in this post quoted, people who vote for lesser evil are quick to forget they still voted for evil. There should be no celebration, no rest.
Create to much dissent under the trump regime and it will collapse in a civil war. Because they dont care about the optics and they secretly want a civil war as a reason to become a dictatorship.
Create enough dissent under democratic leadership and you strengthen the third parties who dissent with you on a local level and force the dems to either adapt more progressive policy or they risk that civil war which will end their power to which optics are important.
The way you create dissent is by making a party lose elections till it changes.
The Democrats got that in 2024. They do NOT seem to have understood the message. Given that they’ve held the same geriatric, ineffective and neoliberal leadership, they are not intending to understand.
So your choice is to either destroy the party as it currently stands, or give up any illusion of lesser evil. Because going to hell slower matters only if you intend to change direction at some point.
I do absolutely understand and agree with this meme, its a variation on the ratchet effect.
But its based on the winner feeling vindicated because they win.
My proposal is to take away that feeling. Make them lose by winning the election by making them the target of non stop dissent and rightfull anger.
This seems to never happen, that is the problem, but i still think it has more chance then a third party actually getting elected.
Their should be a no kings protests the day after the election regardless of party and ideally every single day after, regardless of party.
Gril them to the point they don’t even want to get elected anymore.
The democratic party is one to fight. But the time to fight is when they are in charge, not when they are the alternative for a party that will masacre civilians if they gey the opportunity.
I support burning down the white house to the ground (in Minecraft) regardless of party, but recommend doing so when its the lesser oppressive people that inhabit it cause you have more chance to get actually get out alive.
Do what you must that you believe is right though. Good luck!
But the time to fight is when they are in charge, not when they are the alternative for a party that will masacre civilians if they gey the opportunity.
This is nonsense. When they are in power, that you’ve helped them get, is exactly when you have lost ALL leverage over them.
See 2020 for a real life example - just look up the name Neera Tanden.
The alternative to a democrat win remains a Trump win in which your chance to win a fight against the system is significantly lower.
I don’t like that is the case but its the mathematical truth that the one to win this cycle will be one of the 2 major fascist parties.
I love to wake up in world where i am wrong.
The alternative to a democrat win remains a Trump win in which your chance to win a fight against the system is significantly lower.
Nobody in the mainstream gave a shit about the genocide in Palestine until Trump came into power. Nobody gave a shit about the inflated police budget until Trump came into power. Nobody gave a shit about the pursuance of brinksmanship until Trump came into power. Nobody gave a shit about the protests that were shut down under Biden, or the many infrastructural issues or the fracking or the credible accusations of rape or the foreign interventions or all the other stuff.
Not in the mainstream media and not in the popular zeitgeist.Trump coming into power seems to be a catalyst for mobilising a bunch of amoral dumbass liberals like OP. The conditions to create change are much better now.
As the other poster put, history doesn’t seem to support you. We can see that even in voting amounts from 2020 and 2024 - and the things that the Democrats even felt the need to lie about in the primaries.
Even if your ONLY aim is to see the Democrats win, you should be opposed to the current leadership.
Voting for the lesser evil is why many people vote Republican. I understand most people here don’t understand it but very few Republicans really like their party. They just hate the Dem leaders way more. I’ve voted on both sides all my life, and 3rd party and I’ve had to hold my nose every single time.
