Good rich people don’t exist.

In a fantasy word in a fictional one they can

“Even Bruce Wayne is a piece of shit that could solve most of Gotham’s problems but instead decides to play dress up and beat up homeless people with mental disabilities.”

This proves you aren’t a real fan of Marvel or DC, which is fine, but this question wasn’t made for you; it was made for real and actual fans. You are a non-fan, so there’s no reason for you to answer, and you know nothing about Batman. Batman does use his wealth to help Gotham—damn near every movie, TV show, and comic has him donating to Arkham Asylum, giving people jobs, and him using philanthropy to help Gotham. Anyone who has actually picked up and read a Batman comic has probably explained why this take is hot shit, why Batman does way more than just beat up the poor and the mentally ill; the people he fights are essentially domestic terrorists.

So I feel like it would be pointless to retread that ground. Instead, I want to point out what should be the obvious fact, but is never addressed for some reason, which is that a vast majority of superheroes are subject to the criticism that Batman is often subject to.

Spider-Man beats up poor people. Daredevil beats up poor people. Superman beats up poor people. Any superhero that acts as a “crimefighter” and deals with street-level crime has beaten up poor people. Yet Batman is the only superhero that gets any criticism for it. It can’t be a matter of popularity, because Spider-Man is just as, if not more, popular than Batman. And it’s not like it’s some obscure facet of the character either; it’s prominent in many popular Spider-Man media. Just because someone is mentally ill or poor doesn’t mean they don’t need to be stopped. Trauma and such can be the reason a villain does something, but it is not a justification. I’m sure pimps who go out of their way to pimp out and human traffic underage girls for prostitution are “poor,” and they might be mentally ill; I guess, according to you, Batman shouldn’t beat them up, then—we should just let him traffic underage girls, then.

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How does Jon sound like a “brat”? How does wanting to be left alone and minding your own business mean you are a brat?

Jon is 23 Superman not “forbid” him to do anything. Jon has ever right to tell Clark and Lois “fuck off and go suck a fat dick”.

Jonathan sounds like an annoying little brat.

He’s a brat for trying to establish boundaries and going no contact with his family?

Clark and Lois are breaking actual laws

Breaking and entering

Harassment

Trespassing

Stalking

Assault

They ignore consent and dont take “no” for an answer.

This is how literal rapist think.

Since you all are too fucking stupid to know what I mean, 200k a year of money finances income, you fucking idiot. (I desperately want to use the R-word because it’s justified here.)

Since you all are too fucking stupid to know what I mean, 200k a year of money finances income, you fucking idiot. (I desperately want to use the R-word because it’s justified here.)

Changing your name in order to disassociate yourself from someone (especially to a name from a TV show you have no connection to) is also disrespectful

How is that “disrespectful”? In what way is that “disrespectful”? And if someone is a big fan of Iron man hates his current last name and wants to change it to “Stark” why shouldn’t he.

define with concise and quantifiable metrics for what constitutes a real fan of DC

Let’s look at some arguments against Batman.

“He beats up poor people.”

You could, again, say this about any rich superhero, but Batman doesn’t “beat up poor people.” Most of the people he fights are rich and wealthy crime lords who hurt innocent people in his city. That’s what the entire Court of Owls storyline is about. And even if the criminals are poor, these are still people who are going out of their way to choose to rape, kill, and maim people. The criminals who are criminals because they are poor—Batman gives them tons of job opportunities.

If someone is a pimp who pimps out underage girls, and is a rapist, an assassin, or a gang leader, should we not stop them because “they are poor”? Especially when they make so much money they could retire or go legit?

“He beats up the mentally ill.”

Again, Joker is doing what he’s doing because he wants to, and this is an insult to mentally ill people, because there are tons of mentally ill people who choose not to commit evil acts and want to treat their mental illness. Batman’s rogues gallery is not—and again, most supervillains are mentally ill—so this point is stupid.

“He recruits children.”

Teen Titans—the sidekicks of damn near every League member. And then they might say, “Well, they have powers.” They are still fighting threats that can kill them. Also, by this argument, you’re basically saying a teen should not be a superhero because he has no powers.

“Why doesn’t he use his wealth to help Gotham?”

Literally every comic, animated show, and movie shows he’s using his wealth to help Gotham.

A real fan of DC does not make these stupid arguments because they know it’s objectively false.

your opinions don’t ALWAYS correspond with reality.

If you don’t have knowledge of something, then you can’t really discuss it. Someone can’t and shouldn’t talk about Israel vs. Palestine if they don’t know anything about the history of the conflict.

And I think there are objectively some things that make you a fan of something, especially when most arguments against Batman are false. If you read one issue of one comic, or watch ONE episode—hell, HALF an episode—of Batman, how can you claim to be a fan of something, yet know NOTHING about the character outside of surface-level stuff?

Do I like Mario? Sure. Do I like his games? Sure. Did I like the movie? Yeah. Did I like the second one? No, not really. Am I a fan of Mario? No. Do I like it? Sure—but I don’t know much about the character to say I’m a fan. I can at least admit it.

Do I like Star Trek? Yes. Am I a ‘Trekkie’? No, because I only really like the three Star Trek movies with Chris Pine, the Original Series, and TNG and Voyager—and that’s it. So I’m not a ‘fan,’ and it would be disingenuous for someone to say, ‘you aren’t a Trekkie or a real Mario fan,’ and then for me to get offended when I genuinely am not.

“never read a comic” part though just hurts any argument.

Actually, no, it doesn’t hurt any argument, and I will prove it to you.

Let’s look at some arguments against Batman.

“He beats up poor people.”

You could, again, say this about any rich superhero, but Batman doesn’t “beat up poor people.” Most of the people he fights are rich and wealthy crime lords who hurt innocent people in his city. That’s what the entire Court of Owls storyline is about. And even if the criminals are poor, these are still people who are going out of their way to choose to rape, kill, and maim people. The criminals who are criminals because they are poor—Batman gives them tons of job opportunities.

If someone is a pimp who pimps out underage girls, and is a rapist, an assassin, or a gang leader, should we not stop them because “they are poor”? Especially when they make so much money they could retire or go legit?

“He beats up the mentally ill.”

Again, Joker is doing what he’s doing because he wants to, and this is an insult to mentally ill people, because there are tons of mentally ill people who choose not to commit evil acts and want to treat their mental illness. Batman’s rogues gallery is not—and again, most supervillains are mentally ill—so this point is stupid.

“He recruits children.”

Teen Titans—the sidekicks of damn near every League member. And then they might say, “Well, they have powers.” They are still fighting threats that can kill them. Also, by this argument, you’re basically saying a teen should not be a superhero because he has no powers.

“Why doesn’t he use his wealth to help Gotham?”

Literally every comic, animated show, and movie shows he’s using his wealth to help Gotham.

People who use these arguments literally have not read a comic, nor are they Batman or DC/Marvel fans in general.

“probably just want to be included in the discussion”

If you have no real knowledge of something you can’t discuss it.

they have jobs

What jobs do they have?

The people in my previous post have a problem with Batman being a billionaire and recruiting kids. If you were a real fan, you would suspend disbelief and realize it’s a fictional story. We watch Law & Order because they live in a world where cops actually care about victims, and we want to live in a world where cops are reformed and act like them. We are aware that it’s unrealistic, but we suspend disbelief.

Batman being rich—same with Iron Man—is just a part of the character, so suspend disbelief. Robin and Batgirl have been a part of Batman lore for centuries. The reason I say they aren’t real fans is because they aren’t—they hop on the Batman bandwagon hate train because it’s popular. That’s it.

They don’t have this same criticism for Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, Emma Frost, Kate Bishop, Swordsman, Sunspot, and every other rich superhero. They don’t have a problem with the rest of the league that recruits children as sidekicks. If you don’t like Batman because he’s rich and has a sidekick, that’s fine—but extend that same level of dislike to every other rich superhero. That’s all—be consistent.

If you are a real fan and have an issue with Batman, then I would have to assume this same argument applies to the characters I just mentioned.

In Absolute Batman, Bruce isn’t rich—he’s a working-class construction worker. And for an “altering what-if” story, that’s fine. But you still have to explain some things, because him being “poor” plays no part in the story at all. He still has gadgets, a Batmobile, a dump truck, etc. He never struggles with money, and Martha is still alive. So again, please explain: how does he have all this equipment if he’s not wealthy? And why be Batman if his mom is alive? Please explain this.

How about you try and engage in a good faith argument?

Why?

Actually, I kind of do. If you don’t like politics, then why comment on it? If you don’t care about Palestine or Palestinians, then why engage with it? If you aren’t a fan of Batman or DC, then why comment under all my comments? You are free to leave.

I’m not allowed to engage because I don’t want to tell you my opinion on Batman?

This entire discussion is about Batman, and maybe to some extent other superheroes. Why would I (an actual Batman fan) engage in a discussion about Batman with someone who’s not a fan? If you aren’t a real fan, why engage in this discussion at all?

‘I’m not allowed to engage because I don’t want to tell you my opinion on Batman?’ This whole discussion is about Batman. This post I wrote is about fucking Batman. It would be like having a political discussion and then me saying, ‘Well, I don’t want to give my opinions on the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, or explain my views.’ Okay, then why talk politics?

Then why engage then? Are you fan or no? If not then block me and get off my page.

Then what is your opinion on Batman?

brought up other reasons to prefer Moon Knight over Batman

Again, this person is not a real fan because they don’t know what they are talking about. If we are being honest, Moon Knight is worse than Batman, because he was a mercenary who went to Egypt, killed people, and then was resurrected. Then he used the money that he made from killing innocent people and became a billionaire—not a millionaire, a billionaire. Look it up—his net worth canonically is $2.3 billion.

This person said Moon Knight was trying to atone for it. No, he didn’t. He didn’t give all his wealth away, lol. He lived in a white mansion, had a moon cave, and only used the socialite personality to gain info on the crime lords in the area. He also doesn’t have a no-kill rule—he straight-up killed criminals.

You know the “Batman only beats up poor people” argument? That’s not actually true. Well, if you believe that, then you would see Moon Knight is a billionaire who “brutally straight-up murdered every poor person he came across.” This is why I don’t engage with him or you. YOU AREN’T A REAL FAN. If you were, you would know this.