Okay, hear me out.

Currently, pretty much every PC in the world only has one kind of RAM (not counting CPU caches) – which is pretty much always just the single fastest RAM the builder could afford or needed. And then, if the computer needs more RAM than that, your only real option is to use swap space – to use space on hard drives or SSDs to store RAM data.

But swap space sucks because even with good SSDs, it’s way slower than RAM. You can easily have a lot of it, but it’s very very slow.

But what if motherboards were made to fit multiple types or RAM? You’d have your typical DDR5 for the main system RAM that gets used all the time, of course. But if that starts getting too full, instead of resorting to swap space, you instead have another tier of RAM in another set of slots, farther from the CPU – say, DDR3. Slower RAM than the primary DDR5, but still much faster than using swap space on a disk drive. And because it’s an old, cheap RAM standard, you can easily afford to buy and install a lot of it. (You could still have swap space as an additional buffer just in case your second tier of RAM also fills up, of course.) And when not needed for program and OS data, the 2nd tier RAM would be great for disk caching for commonly needed files…

You could, say, install 8GB of DDR5 alongside 64GB of DDR3. Most of your day-to-day stuff would be handled by the very fast DDR5 RAM, but when you’re doing something really RAM-intensive, you’d start to use the DDR3 as well. That would make your system slow down a bit, but not slow down nearly as much as if you were depending on swap space – it would still have a pretty acceptable level of performance, even when using the ‘swap’ RAM. Compared to a system with 16GB of DDR5, it would be equal when using 0-8GB of RAM, a bit slower when using 8-16GB of RAM, and much faster when using over 16GB of RAM. (And if the OS is intelligent about prioritizing fast RAM access for priority processes, you’d likely notice very little difference at all!)

And the time is ripe for this! With the RAM crisis we’re in now, it’s absurd to tell people “just buy more DDR5 instead”. If ever there was a time to implement multi-tiered RAM solutions, this would be it!

Of course, besides motherboard and CPU support, it will also need support on the software side. The operating system needs to know what to do with a second tier of slower RAM. But I’m sure that with a bit of cleverness in the engineering of it, you could make old, incompatible software at worst simply ignore the 2nd tier RAM as if it isn’t there at all, so even operating systems that don’t support this multi-tiered RAM could still run on the system, even if they don’t take full advantage of it.

I dunno … just a thought. Looking at the absurdity of using SSDs for temporary RAM-like storage when older-style RAM chips could provide faster and cheaper temporary storage … and probably more efficiently, too, since that’s their primary intended function. There’s no fundamental reason it couldn’t work, and it seems like a great compromise.


Or, for a solution that doesn’t require as much cooperation between MB manufacturers and OS developers, think of a PCIe card that has a bunch of DDR3 slots and presents itself to the MB/OS as a very fast SSD. A ‘ram disk’ that you then tell your OS to treat as swap space, so you’re then using it as RAM again. That approach might be a little slower with the PCIe bottleneck, but it would be compatible with almost any system and doesn’t require both a new MB and new OS.

(Though that approach could break ‘hibernate’ functions in cases where the OS uses allocated swap space to store RAM data for hibernation. The OS would expect that data to still be there after rebooting, but because it’s actually stored on RAM, the data would go away on power loss, breaking the hibernation function.)

  • diz
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    13 hours ago

    I’m kind of dubious that a large volume of DDR3 would be intrinsically cheaper per GB than a large volume of DDR5 . It was more expensive per GB when it was new, uses more silicon area per GB, and so on. It is cheaper now thanks to obsolescence, but it wouldn’t be cheaper if everyone was using it.

    In a normal market (i.e. pre AI shortage), due to growth in memory capacities over time, the total consumer installed gigabytes of DDR5 would very quickly exceed the total gigabytes of DDR3 and earlier technologies, because DDR5 has greater capacity per chip.

    • lproven
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      4 hours ago

      DDR 2 was expensive when new.

      DDR3 wasn’t massively. I have about 20 or 30 2GB and 4GB DDR3 SODIMMs in a bag right here. There are a handful of 0.5 and 1GB ones in there too.

      I wish someone made a cheap mini PC with four DDR3 SODIMM slots. I could provision at least 3 machines with 16GB each, no problem.

      Here’s a more realistic solution for folks with phat GPUs who don’t game 24x7: swap to VRAM. There were patches for this years ago, and it was revived earlier this year:

      https://github.com/c0dejedi/nbd-vram

      Make that generic and cross-platform so it works equally well on AMD and any other weirdo GPUs out there.

    • froztbyte
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      11 hours ago

      there’s also the engineering-side faffery: now you’d need mixed memory controllers, mixed bus speeds, synchronisation issues, etc

      simpler to just shove saltman et al in jail and recover world markets

      • OwOarchist@pawb.socialOP
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        12 minutes ago

        Could avoid all of that by treating the 2nd tier RAM as a swap partition on a very fast SSD…

    • lproven
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      4 hours ago

      Not really, no.

      Optane was RAM that was on the CPU bus, but nonvolatile. No need for disks. Boot, and just turn off; when you turn back on all your RAM contents are still there.

      You’d need some normal RAM. Optane was big and fast but it had a finite number of write cycles. 3 orders of magnitude more write cycles than Flash, and Flash can only be rewritten a whole block at a time while Optane can be rewritten 1 byte or 1 word at a time, but you’d still need a few gigs of plain old RAM as workspace… plus another terabyte of RAM that held its contents forever.

      The basic plan is called Single Level Store and it’s much older than Unix itself. IBM i is the only modern shipping single-level store OS.

    • OwOarchist@pawb.socialOP
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      14 hours ago

      Hm… Seems like those still need a particular CPU and OS in order to work at all, and would normally be used to add more RAM the same speed as your normal system RAM.

      But I’d love to see one that presents itself to the motherboard/OS as just an extremely fast SSD. Then compatibility wouldn’t be nearly as much of a headache, and it could use cheaper, older RAM just fine.