And by “rewrite”, they mean point Claude at a vague spec and hope for the best.
This is the way
You mean they asked Claude to rewrite their app in Rust like fucking everyone else is doing rn?
The real question is which is the greater evil, AI or electron…
One steals ram you don’t have, one steals ram you already own.
Sam altman interest piqued
Ngl I would rather use an awful Electron app than an AI slop “open source” rust slop.
Well, right now you can use the existing web client in Firefox.
In the future you may not.
It looks like it might be possible to target wasm (at least GPUI can), so hopefully Discord won’t kill their web client.
If I have to use it, I’d much rather run their software in a sandboxed environment like a web browser than install a program that can then do whatever it wants with my user data.
Well, if they kill the web client, they will lose tons of users. I am on the web client right now, since their app is not working - again. This has been a common occurence on multiple machines, with different operating systems… They really should rewrite that shit.
I can’t say they didn’t, but at least they have a track record of doing Rust rewrites from pre-LLM days. As a fan of Rust, I wish it weren’t a company like Discord getting the headlines for doing this type of thing.
https://discord.com/blog/why-discord-is-switching-from-go-to-rust
The UI framework is literally vibe coded claudeslop by a guy who didn’t know anything about graphics rendering by his own admission: https://youtu.be/j2goZBL156Q?t=2012
just checked this talk and holy shit, this is exactly how I imagined these kinds of meetings, just a bunch of guys that agree on everything they say and probably feel so smart about it
And yet the app that uses it (zed) is one of the most polished editors out there
I’ll never touch Discord again after their Palantir ID verification bullshit
And Google play started doing it with a do you want to do this pop-up prompt, they don’t say that,it’s very vaguely just verification and looks normal and not new but traffics you to the id verification thing and then make it impossible or very difficult to back out without doing it.
Discord requires ID verification. It is dead to me.
Not where I live
I think it is just GDPR. I uninstalled the shit immediately when I saw the prompt. Just like my reddit account.
It doesn’t, you just can’t view NSFW channels if you don’t. Which is a problem if that’s something you want to do, but “requires” is a strong word.
Almost every server was nsfw tagged for nudity and profanity when they rolled it out. It was a shitshow. I have no interest. Same goes for Reddit now.
Edit: missing an N in nsfw botched my comment completely
Hmm, I’m at the server limit (in 50 Discords) and none of them were marked in that way. Some of them have NSFW channels that I can’t access anymore, but I don’t care about that.
Maybe I’m in different kinds of communities.
I heard a cousin of a friend saying if you connect via a Moldavia VPS there is no age verification for Reddit (there is, however, for Discord).
how else will I use it
Ideally you won’t, the requirement sucks
Stop using Discord.
My dnd group plays on discord, they ain’t switching and I’m not gonna just stop one of the few joys I have in life
Your D&D group can get fucked. So can you if you use that as an excuse to stay on a platform actively participating in fascism.
I can see why you don’t struggle with the network effect.
No, you don’t see some things are more important than your own personal convenience.
I’ve dropped people I’ve known for years over this. People I thought were better. But no, they, like you, like everyone else, don’t care about the lives of other people so long as you’re comfortable.
How is somebody using discord “contributing to fascism” to any meaningful degree? At that point you might as well kill yourself since buying food also contributes, since in most places the only options are all shitty companies that are way worse than discord.
The AI used for determining your age scans your messages and sends that data to training centres of which the data is used by ICE.
You’ll need to provide sources for any of those claims. Ofc we should be skeptical of anything a corporation says, but Discord explicitly said they don’t use messages for age verification: https://discord.com/safety/how-discord-is-building-safer-experiences-for-teens. I’d be hard-pressed to believe that if that weren’t true there would be leaks.
I use vesktop, a heavily customisable and privacy friendly Discord app for this exact reason.
I literally want to video chat my friends for D&D and the occasional Minecraft and get one of the most tedious and bloated pieces of software in existence. Why does my calling program have mini games, paid emotes and lag like a truck? I genuinely don’t believe I have a hope in hell getting my friends off it, so that’s my compromise.
Discord being used like a wiki or forum can die though. Who thought a chat log was a good place to have guides and news, and how the hell has that not died long ago?
Discord being used like a wiki or forum can die though.
I miss being able to find good guides on forums.
Vesktop is not privacy focused.
That’s news to me. I’m not overly cautious with privacy so I’m not expert. My general ethos isn’t to maximise privacy but to minimise advertising, and get as much customisability as possible.
Often that ends up with me using privacy focussed software by chance, and I may have applied that here, but looking at desktop, it blocks discord telemetry and limits system access, which is at least something.
Yes, but it can’t block AI message scanning. And the developers don’t seem too motivated to work against Discord’s privacy violating bot.
If there ever is an alternative that is also free to use, has (almost) the same features or more and has a at least halfway decent UI & UX, I’m more than willing to switch. But the only software I found that was pretty much on the same level as Discord (besides popularity) got bought and killed shortly afterwards by Roblox.
Edit: Thanks for all the suggestions, I now have my own Fluxer instance up and running. And also sorry for basically using Cunningham’s Law on you all lol
Fluxer and Stoat
Last time I used Stoat it still had the old name (can’t remember what it was) and it was miles behind discord. No idea how much changed since the rebranding tho.
Fluxer on the other hand sounds pretty promising, I’ll look into it.
Fluxer is primarily what I use. Iirc Stoat is more libre
Fluxer will get Federation and E2EE early next year.
Stoat’s also working on federation, using maybe Polyproto.
That is fanstastic
Stoat has been working well so far, they have gotten even the mobile version usable (for chatting). The problem is just the same old - nobody else will stop using Discord. It is pretty hard, to use a communication platform, without anyone to communicate with…
Fluxer is shit as it’s not-so-Libre and also asks you to pay for stuff that should be basic and free.
Apparently if you self host you can have everything be free. Its just on their own instance that has the premium which I think is a good way to fund the project
Yeah, and you have to pay for the hardware, for the stuff you need for the maintenance, etc., and it comes again to my point: if not everyone can pay for software or for a better hardware, then not everyone can pay for self-host either.
While I don’t know what the restrictions are on the official fluxer instance, I do think it’s worth noting that if you self host everyone on your instance gets everything for free and you can set the limits for file upload and similar stuff to whatever you want, plus self hosting was pretty easy compared to when I tried it with matrix.
Matrix, use the sable (2.0) client
Sable Next >>
The upstream Sable is slop.
There is. There are.
Matrix with either Sable or Cinny.
Matrix using Sable Next or Cinny, or Extera Next, or Nheko Reborn.
Or Stoat.
Have you tried Kallisti?
Looks like the RAM crunch is starting to affect more than just greenfield projects.
Good. Electron is a bloody memory hog. We don’t need to squander 300Mb of memory just to display 15Kb of text. And then rinse and repeat with multiple other apps like BitWarden Desktop.
You listening, BitWarden? The browser add-ins are fine, the full-fat desktop app needs to lose some serious weight.
This is the creator of BitWarden and we hear you! Because of this we’re getting to release an update and give you what you want. AI, AI everywhere inside BitWarden for your convenience!
I’ve begun switching from jetbrains IDEs to Zed because of the memory usage. I want snappy.
I have 64GB of RAM and I will damn well use it.
Fuck discord and everyone involved with it.
That’s a lot of people. Do I get to use a condom at least?
Nah, raw dog it.
please don’t. this might make the pedophiles happy.
Doesn’t matter whatsoever since Discord as a company is total garbage.
The problem is that Matrix doesn’t allow you to opt out of video streams when you’re in a voice chat. And Revolt doesn’t even have video-streaming. Discord’s video-streaming is incredibly robust on average, though I, too, long for a competent, free competitor.
You can’t opt out of video streams when you’re in a voice chat. Is it really that big of a deal though? I mean it’s a problem, but not something to discard Matrix over… Unless of course you have some other complaints you haven’t metioned. Regardless, it depends on what client you use. Matrix being decentralised means you have to choose a client, and it’s up to the client devs to have the features you want implemented.
if your data is limited, yeah it’s a huge deal. voice takes a smalll fraction of the data video does.
Fair. If this is the Element client they’re talking about, I don’t know why they haven’t implemented that yet because they’re the biggest one. If it’s another client though, it’s a problem with the client, not Matrix.
Oh, Matrix can do it in general? Hmm…
Have you tried Kallisti? It’s built on top of Mumble
Oh cool, this is new to me. Seems pretty recent and heavy on AI-assisted code, but the features look awesome. Definitely keeping tabs on this one. Appreciate the share!
Never heard of that, thanks…
Me and some friends have been using fluxer recently and it’s been pretty good, streaming works like discord so you have to click into it. It’s very similar to discord UI wise so it’s been easy to get people to swap over, and it supports self hosting which has been nice. Only complaint is that it’s missing the built in soundboard discord has but that’s a pretty minor thing.
I wish i can use Matrix but my friends force me to use Discord :(
Sounds pretty good until you realize it’ll be Claude generating all that code.
To be fair they already adopted rust in 2018 so maybe not all of it
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Man why everyone gotta bitch on lemmy? I came to the comments looking for a bit more clarification on what this means by people who have knowledge, and the comments are just hating on discord for AI use.
“Why do people hate something anti human”
How the fuck is anyone still using Discord.
Because not everyone has the know how or resources to self host an alternative that only a small amount of people are going to use.
Also, trying to move an entire friend group to a different platform is hard, especially when they are part of other friend groups that are also using discord.
Yeah I get it. Not everyone is as ideological (not a putdown). I just left all those groups. They know how to reach me when they want to chat.
I don’t know your situation, and more just for the sake of a debate, but doesn’t that just silo you or put you in a bubble?
PS thanks for asking! This is my favourite rant atm
Sure I guess—moreso than if I went everywhere. But I’m still in other groups and like I’ll meet with my bookclub, my local nerd friend group, LAN parties, Doom modding projects, etc—I just won’t join their chats.
Most socialising happens outside of Discord, so I feel like I’m just excluding myself from one of the bubbles by eschewing it.
It’s the same thing with reddit, facebook, Instagram, tiktok, tumblr, substack, truth social, lemmyml, bluesky, yt, twiter, that mall that’s owned by the rich fuck you hate, etc etc etc, and on and on. Maybe you’re just on all of them, but imo it’s reasonable to curate your social bubbles around what spaces you want to contribute to and partake in. It’s not like there aren’t enough to choose from.
Anyway, I’ve managed to pull a few people away, or get some people to become dual users. Every person that isn’t only reachable except in the corporate playgrounds lessens the network effects that much more.
Fun! I’ll get to moderate a Discord server for blind people that blind people can’t use on desktop!
Seriously, anything on GPUI reads as “empty window” to screen readers.
Well that sucks. Do you know if Tauri is any better in that regard?
Unrelated to Rust, I assume Qt6 has the expected accessibility features wired?
I haven’t messed with Tauri, but I’m not very hopeful. My best case scenario right now is for Discord to continue upstream accessibility work. To be clear, there is an edit for GPUI, but it still seems to be in early stages.
Speaking of framework maturity, last I looked at OBS on Qt6 it still had significant issues. You need the OS accessibility API, the framework to hook into it and the developer knowledge on how to leverage that. It’s a lot of ifs that can fail early.
Thanks for answering. Trying to keep my software as accessible as possible with regards to colors and structure, but screen readers are a bit beyond my competency.
The first step is to make sure it’s keyboard accessible, since that’s how blind people will use your software. Tab, arrows, space, enter should get you to most things and trigger controls. Ctrl + tab for some things, F6 typically moves focus between panes.
Apart from that, you can always turn on your own screen reader. Windows comes with Narrator, macOS with VoiceOver and most Linux distros will come with Orca. Mind you, you’ll have to learn a lot and the fact you can’t do something doesn’t mean an experienced screen reader user can’t, but you’ll get some feedback pretty quickly.
That’s actually an excellent point. I can just use the text-to-speech screen reader, and the same content will go to a physical screen reader. I’ll try that!
Fun! I’ll get to moderate a Discord server for blind people that blind people can’t use on desktop!
How would a rewrite cause this to happen? Is there something about Rust frameworks for the desktop that exclude accessibility features?
I’ve been working primarily with C#, but none of their frameworks exclude accessibility features… would be shocked AF if Rust frameworks just left that all out.
I checked the gpui crate and it has an accessibility module that uses AccessKit, but I can’t say if it actually works.
Yeah, but this is Rust, not some single-dev pet project. You would expect a fully fleshed out framework to have accessibility features built in as first-class features, not some randomly bolted-on afterthought.
It’s not about Rust, it’s about GPUI, which was developed for the Zed text editor. Go look at the repos for both and you’ll notice they only started considering accessibility at all after blind people opened tickets and they only added the very basic infrastructure required when a blind developer took it open himself to do it.
“Bolted on” didn’t even begin to tell the story.
this is Rust, not some single-dev pet project
The programming language has absolutely nothing to do with the size or maturity of a GUI library using it.
Without knowing what framework is in use its hard to say. Hell electron had accessibilty issues for a while
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Their client could be pure assembly, it’s to little, to late.
I just finished setting up my matrix homeserver and got my friends to use Sable. So. Yeah, fuck discord and their AI “age estimation,” their promises of “we don’t store ids” before leaking tens of thousands of them, and their “our trusted partners are the best” and it’s literally Palantir in a trench coat.
Fuck all of that. AND they’re enshittifying with all the quests and ads. Discord has some real problems but violating everyone’s privacy is not the solution. Hire more people, actually investigate, and listen to the community. Don’t be a Roblox.
i’ll never understand how discord became the standard for gamers. Back in the day we used to use Teamspeak + IRC and that was great. Decentralised, low latency, etc. I still use teamspeak occasionally. Still works great. The discord app was just a mess from the very beginning. Resource hogging electron nightmare. Still everybody thought it was great. And now all sorts of communites, even open source and maker communities are on there. Makes 0 sense to me.
Because discord made their app user friendly for the masses and team speak was slow to adapt.
Kinda says something that team speak now looks a lot like discord.
Yeah I hated it from the word go. It was always the poorest option. Everything about its UX makes me cringe. Even fucking slack by now Salesforce is somehow better.
Every moment I deigned to use Discord I felt like there was friction between me and the people on the other end of the application. Like typing while wearing gloves and getting interrupted every time I wanted to do anything.
They need it to use less memory since none of us are allowed to have any anymore
Electron apps are bloated in terms of disk and memory usage.
Presumably the rust version will be faster and leaner.
