- cross-posted to:
- tankieslop@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- tankieslop@feddit.org
Marxismtomorrow telling another user from that threat to off themself. —> 
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This evil moron has never won a debate on Lemmy. Also, he regularly texts violent threats to anyone who makes him look stupid. This is normal behavior for him. Honestly, I just expect this behavior from tankies/conservatives at this point.
Its a nazi dogwhiste to point out a tankie. Thats very funny.
Me, an anarchist who has been to many anti nazi demonstrations:
Wat
They’re just trolling at this point and revel in it. They love to accuse anyone anti-authoritarian as trolls because they they themselves are very much guilty of being trolls.
“The term was invented by nazis, to criticise the soviet union crushing a nazi uprising with tanks” Suck my dick for real, the term was invented after the people of hungary(including much of my family from my mothers side) rose up against the “communist” dictators controlling the nation and wanted to install socialism as opposed to “communism”. The response of the soviet union, after the soviet soldiers stationed in hungary sided with the hungarians, was to send in new soldiers from russia and sorrounding countries and indiscriminately mow down people on the streets of budapest. After this there was an argument in the uk communist party about whether the communist movement was more important or anti-imperialism. Tankies got named tankies because they support killing innocent people in the name of russia. Theyre nazis but without the the fascist ideology. Also theyre not economically left, they supported the ussr and china today both countries that prioritise the authoritarian part of their government way before anything even close to communism and they literally supressed socialists in 56. Also anyone trying to tell you anything about how it was a cia operation, let me list a few minor inconsistencies:
-The revolutionaries tried to contact the usa and western nations for help but they never responded. This caused hungarians to have a very sour opinion both about the west and east as they feel wedged in between and just used as a punching bag. Tho the reason the west didnt help is because they didnt want to escalate the COLD war into, you know, a direct one.
-The guy who somewhat led to and also took part in the revolution and was later killed by the communists was also appointed by them. Its one thing to say that okay maybe the communists didnt choose the right guy cause he was more hungarian than soviet at heart but you can bet both your balls and you dick as well that the communists wouldnt choose a fucking cia operative for the prime minister.
-Lastly, this is less serious but is funny, when i was grilling a tankie about this manner once i got sent some rando tankie conspiracy website about how the cia staged everything. Now the funny part was that this person didnt realize i was hungarian, and the person who wrote the conspiracy thing didnt understand either and it was clearly made in a way where they didnt expect you to know anything about 56 or understand hungarian so i just ended up reading some of it and it had stuff like “oh yeah this baker fighting in this picture? Yeah the cia released a document 30 years later about how he was an operative” and then the document they provided as evidence proceeded to disprove this by actually stating that the baker was getting SPIED ON by the cia not the baker being a spy for the cia 🤦. The confusion is probably caused by the cia probably knowing about the uprising before it happened but not actually helping in any way. It was a war they didnt need, in a country that they didnt care about, for a cause they were against(socialism). The sad part is thats why they lost the revolution. A radical jihadist uprising in any other part of the world wouldve gotten supported by the cia but not a socialist uprising in europe
Whelp, hope at least one person reads this rant and finds it interesting, tankies already strike a chord for me but when they talk bullshit about 56 i kinda loose it
I honestly love hearing about Hungarian politics because it’s never boring that’s for sure. So thank you
I guess the upside of almost a thousand years of collective suffering is that you get some interesting history lol
Recently this narrative of CIA involvement has been bolstered by some declassified CIA documents where they mention financially supporting some Hungarian anti-USSR organisation.
On closer inspection it turned out that the document was written like a decade after the Hungarian uprising, the organisation was located inside the US and was made up of emigrants. Zero actual connection to the uprising. But it doesn’t matter to them. Multiple times I’ve seen tankies simply say that any thin indication of CIA involvement in this sort of events is good enough because it’s already been proven that CIA supported anti-communist movements, so you can just blanket assume they were involved in any case you want.
As a person from ex-Yugoslavia (Croatia), I also have similar experiences to yours. Lots of tankies have this weird narrative where the crucial fault for the breakup of YU is in the USA and MMF, especially in some imposed economic policy that was actually in effect just for a few months and had zero chance to substantially change the development of the situation. Literally nobody in the region, not even hard-line communists, thinks this could be an important factor in the breakup of the federation. It’s simply Americans who are trying to make everything revolve around themselves, as if they can’t imagine other nations having their own opinions and perspectives.
I keep telling people, the funniest bit about tankies is that they’re the most America-centric people outside of conservatives.
What’s the difference between a tankie and a MAGA CHUD? It’s millimeters.
Yeahhhh, i mean yugoslavia was even more of a cock up. At keast 56 is a pretty neutral uprising, basically everyone except tankies thought it was a good thing overall, yugoslavia on the other hand is something so polarizing that literally nobody is happy about how anything happened. Its easier to mourn for 56 as well because there was one enemy side and one good side, almost textbook like with a very few exceptions so you dont feel like youre defending a POS at any point(except if youre a tankie but then youre a POS as well so it doesnt really matter). Third thing is, 56 was much longer ago so less of the trauma remains.
Genuinely interesting ty
Thanks for this!
I know that guy.
This is a DM from them seemingly in response to a thread about harassment on lemmy.
Holy shit, thats something you would see on 4chan not lemmy. Telling someone to kill themselves in such a manner is genuinely concerning. It takes a sick person to type something like that.
Honestly, you could send this directly to lemmy.today admins. It is unacceptable.
Kind of doesnt matter. The tankies have so many alts. The more you ban them the more deceptive they’ll be. With no ban protection its better to leave them on an obvious account like this.
Nah, we don’t have to deal with blatant bigotry. You wouldn’t want nazis to openly spout nazi bullshit in comms either, would you?
Also your comment sounds like something goat would say.
I dont want either but you can’t actually stop either. Because Lemmy has no gate to account creation the user can be back in 5mins and now they’ve evaded every single user block and community/instance ban.
Its a hard moderation choice to make and I’m not sure what the right answer is tbh.
Nah, they slip up eventually. And just like with nazis, when they face severe consequences, they are a lot more careful with their words. I wont tolerate their bullshit in here.
I hadn’t even considered the admins, but especially since this is apparently a pattern of behavior, I reported it to mrmanager.
Thanks for the suggestion.
I’ve caught temp bans for way less…
Imagine typing that shit out and thinking “this is the correct course of action” before hitting send. Fuckin’ mental shit.
Lashing out could be the way they learned to deal with their problems. Seems like they aren’t thinking at all.
That’s a completely hinged and level headed message to send someone 🤨 /s
Thankfully the block button is a freely pressable one, hopefully you don’t have to deal with them anymore lmao
Also thankfully my life rocks and that wacko is way off base, but it is concerning to find out they tell a lot of lemmy users to kill themselves.
It’s the best losers can do when they’ve got nothing. Is a really really old soc.men style response and though we’re decades removed from usenet, the desperation of adherents to the ideology of impotent rage is the same.
Projection.
That’s what I thought too.
Yeah if you keep countering their arguments for a long enough time, they usually degrade to automatically calling whatever you say fascist/nazi, you a genocide supporter (even when you also call it a genocide) and then finally start actually involving your family members in their fantasies. Quite reflective of the ideology they are defending.
Very Sith-like for them to be speaking so absolutely
Casualy avoiding to speak in absolutes yourself 🧐 So we have learned from yodas mistakes.
Absolutely, part of the I’m-consumed-by-despair, you-should-be-too category.
Yeah I was arguing with him a few days ago. Huge asshole, and completely disingenuous and unnecessarily combative.
Maybe that encounter was one step on his path to figuring out that he’s an asshole and your interaction with him made a positive difference. That would be nice.
Wait are you saying I turned him into an asshole?
No, he was an asshole before my first interaction with him and he’ll be an asshole long after my last.
What positive difference is there here? I don’t get it. Are you making a joke? I’m legitimately confused
Oh wait are you saying I gave him self-awareness? Because no, I haven’t seen any evidence to suggest he’s capable of that.
I definitely don’t think you turned that person into an asshole.
I’m saying this person is negative, but maybe each interaction they have with real people brings them 1/1,000th closer to becoming sentient.
A potential silver lining to an otherwise completely crappy experience we had with this person.
Points 1 and 2 aside, cause they’re a whole other bunch of bollocks…
How in the actual fuck does one justify the violent and literal crushing of the Chinese people’s right to protest against their government as a good thing?!
I’d love to see that propaganda link for myself, just to see how on Earth anybody could frame the killing of innocent people as a good thing.
Because everything against China/Russia/NK is done bay the CIA at the behest of ‘Capitalism Inc.’ ©®
If the CIA was involved you would think more international media would be involved 1: to spread the revolution and destabilise other communist countries. 2: as propaganda back home about the awful commies and how any ideas about social welfare is bad.
Even if the CIA was involved with the protest, that doesn’t justify the massacre of peaceful, unarmed protesters.
I think we can get an understanding from looking at all the points as a whole. Anything anti-america is good. Anything against that is a CIA op nazi. That’s their entire ideology, full stop.
Most tankies aren’t usually that braindead, but the general theme is the same.
The few I’ve had the misfortune of trying to argue with me haven’t presented with clear, concise facts they have functional brains capable of high level thought.
This is the linked piece on Tiananmen Square
It claims (with some at least superficially convincing evidence, to be fair) that it isn’t accurate to call the event a massacre, and that deadly violence did not occur in the square but did occur elsewhere in Beijing. It tries to paint the deadly crackdown as justified because some of the protesters were violent toward the PLA. It also claims the protest was supported by the CIA and that the protesters had sympathies toward capitalist countries and the US because they erected a statue resembling the Statue of Liberty in the square.
Lady Liberty is a recognizable symbol for freedom and democracy around the world. It doesn’t necessarily mean pro-US or pro-capitalist. Seems an appropriate symbol for any protest to me.
The piece criticizes an excerpt of a description of the event from the U.S. State Department website, saying that it’s deliberately vague and implying this is nefariously meant to imply bad things happened whilst having plausible deniability. This is the silliest part of the piece. It couldn’t possibly be that the State Department is vague because there are conflicting accounts of the event which wasn’t well-documented and they don’t want to be inaccurate.
Wikipedia has this:
The protests were initiated by the death of former pro-reform Chinese Communist Party (CCP) general secretary Hu Yaobang in April 1989, amid the backdrop of rapid economic development and social change in post-Mao China. The movement’s goals reflected anxieties among the people and political elite about the nation’s future. Common grievances at the time included inflation, corruption, dismantling of the “iron rice bowl”, limited preparedness of graduates for the new economy, and restrictions on political participation. Although the protests were highly disorganised with varying goals, student protestors called for reforms including the rollback of the removal of iron rice bowl jobs, greater political accountability, constitutional due process, democracy, freedom of the press, and freedom of speech. Workers’ protests were generally focused on economic issues, specifically inflation and Deng’s economic reforms, which weakened Mao-era guarantees such as lifetime employment in state-owned enterprises and associated workplace benefits. These groups united around anti-corruption demands, adjusting economic policies, and protecting social security. At the height of the protests on May 17, about one million people were assembled in the square.
“Iron rice bowl” is a Chinese term for an occupation with guaranteed job security, similar to life tenure. Traditionally, people considered to have such positions include military personnel, members of the civil service, as well as employees of various state-owned enterprises (through the mechanism of the work unit).
Okay, so, in other words, it was a protest against the liberalizing economic reforms and dismantling of part of the social safety net. So you won communism and then it’s being taken away. I’d be pissed too. Imagine if the government took away medicare, medicaid, and social security in the US. You better believe we’d be justifiably rioting. No foreign support needed.
So, the protesters were socialists. Aren’t lefties always advocating for overthrowing capitalism and replacing it with communism, violently if necessary? So we should do that, but when students try that in 1989 in China, the good guys were the government trying to stop them? Be consistent.
Also, the CIA was involved? But it was actually a pro-socialist protest. Hmm.
That’s about it.
Every protest that goes against the party is therefore wrong.
These are not serious people (if they’re people at all), and you should not spend too much time thinking about how to rebuke them, because bullshit is always more costly to debunk than to create.
This may be controversial because of the use of AI. But, I’ve been using an AI chatbot to rebuke and call out tankies without having to do all the work of debunking their claims by hand. I just add their comments to the prompt and ask the AI to pick their arguments apart with a witty comment. The AI gives me multiple responses to pick from. Then, I just copy paste, and reply. It makes it easy and fun to troll the trolls
Nah, trolls deserve to be feed slop. This way I keep them entertained, and they don’t go troll someone else
They might deserve lead, but we don’t deserve to have our environment poisoned with lead.
Sounds like you like reading the tankie and troll comments, because otherwise you won’t see the slop replies…
Sounds like you don’t give a shit about right and wrong, helpful or hindrance, you just REALLY want to post slop and you’re content to use the most tenuous of excuses to rationalize it. What is AI adding to this? You’ve proven you’re perfectly capable of generating mountains of useless twaddle.
I’d prefer not to support corporations that drove up memory prices and pollute the environment just for slop.
There are ways to feed the tankies slop without supporting AI companies. You can run your own open-source agent using OpenClaw for the harness and local AI models in Ollama (there are open-source models, no need to use a corporate model). On top of trolling the tankies, you can stick it to RAM Altman this way
“Open source” AI still has all the same problems we see with corporate LLMs.
Nah, trolls deserve to be feed slop. This way I keep them entertained, and they don’t go troll someone else.
Don’t call yourself a hero. It’s a pathetic thing to do.
Not as pathetic as lobbing personal insults at someone you disagree with when you don’t have any interesting to add to the conversation
More interesting than slop.
How in the actual fuck does one justify the violent and literal crushing of the Chinese people’s right to protest against their government as a good thing?!
I’d love to see that propaganda link for myself, just to see how on Earth anybody could frame the killing of innocent people as a good thing.
I’m not defending the Chinese government’s actions, but I can explain a potential framing of those actions and the mentality of defending it.
There is a concept called “Siege Socialism” that I don’t think many people really consider. I’ve written a number of comments explaining it. It’d been on my mind for a while but I was ignorant of the term until recently.
Capitalists hold so much power all over the world and they do NOT want anyone to consider anything else. It’s extremely difficult for a socialist/communist state to exist without it being pushed to become an authoritarian state. Consider the absolute onslaught of pressure from those capitalist powers. Propaganda, sanctions, trade wars, blockades, posturing, funding opposition parties, funding rebel groups, sabotage, proxy wars, etc. Imagine all of your neighbors working vehemently to ensure you look bad and fail at everything you do. Could you imagine a well-intentioned leader in such a situation pushed to paranoia and state violence? Is it even paranoia if its real?
The Chinese side is simple. Those protestors were funded and encouraged by the US and other foreign powers in an effort to destabilize and create unrest.
I’m not saying China had or currently has only innocent, well-intentioned leaders and I do not give any of them a pass for their uses of state violence. However, the US and western capitalist powers are just as capable of propaganda as the Chinese or Soviets and they often jump at any chance to make life more difficult for their enemies. I doubt it was anywhere near as simple as either side might try to paint it.
Like every fascist or overly authoritarian goverment in the history of world always does: “external enemies”.
“Fascism is when Social Democracy…” -Average Tankie
Users like that
“u/GenevaSuggestions”(edit: the username is actually u/Geneva_Convenience @lemmy dot ml, I misremembered) user was like “Omg AOC is literally Hitler!” and literally photoshopped in the “hitler mustasche”(Yes I know Social Democracy is not sunshines and rainbows, but equating any system thats not perferectly 100% socialist utopia to be “fascist” is dilluting the meaning of fascism)
“…the term comes from Soviets crushing a nazi uprising with tanks…”
rofl 🤣
“You see, comrade? As long as we call it ‘Nazi uprising’, we can crush anyone with tank and say is good thing.”
A tankie anytime anything controversial comes up that China has done: CIA!!!
Look, the CIA are fucking abhorrent, but not every bad thing in a communist country is their fault. China especially so. They can do fucked up things all on their own without the CIA’s help.
it cracks me up because i’ve also met the exact opposite person: someone who was shocked to learn that the cia has been involved in anything at all and that everything we know is just… listed right there on wikipedia.
I feel you’d have to be living under not just a rock, but a mountain, to not know the CIA does some exceptionally shady shit. Lol.
And even if the CIA was involved, that doesn’t automatically justify a violent response.
Ah yes, the classic “everyone has been lying to you your whole life, except me, im the one who’s telling you the REAL truth.”
“Every western source is state propaganda!”
Posts RT link
I’m not surprised that a tankie would try telling a person who lives in Vietnam that he knows more about socialism than him.
Just completely detached from reality, and they’ll make it your problem if you know better than they do
Nazis are when don’t want to be invaded by Russia!
when don’t want to be invaded by Russia!
what? no. never happens. not invasion, extended vacation with tanks.
That person seriously needs a mental health professor
Crushing “A nazi uprising” with tanks, huh? Not heard of that. I’m pressing x to doubt
I think it was a PugJesus comment that really clarified it for me - "Nazi"s to Russia were not bigoted, genocidal psychopaths. Pretty much all Russia saw or cared about in that war was the ugly invasion force they had to repel, losing dire amounts of their people doing so. So to Russia and their defenders, “Nazi” basically means “invader”, which makes a lot more sense when you see it used to justify “protecting” or “reclaiming” land that “belongs” to Russia. It’s all still bullshit used to support heinous actions, but it at least makes more sense in that context.
That is a valuable explanation, thank you
Germans using English slang to label their event is just easily disproven nonsense. What a fool to believe such simple lies.
(Yeah, I was confused too - I think they are referring to westerns/western political agents/some Hungarian fractions with western views (?) directly as “nazis”, not actual German nazis. That’s also the terminology USSR used at the time (50s). The word “Tankie” was first used in UK for UK communists/members of Britain’s communist party. From: wiki/Tankie, wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956)
