I feel like this is probably pretty effective. I feel like it should be a thing.
E: see also https://beehaw.org/post/16953380 E2: https://19thnews.org/2024/11/4b-movement-south-korea-social-media-trump-presidency/
I feel like this is probably pretty effective. I feel like it should be a thing.
It isn’t. They will simply import women from other countries. And this election alone proves the fact that all women are not a monolithic group. You’re not going to get a majority to follow this trend.
It seems to have had the desired effect elsewhere. Also I’m not sure if it’s required for women to be a monolithic group. This assumption is based on the gender divide in the current election. Regardless, Trump’s policies are going to have a natural impact and decreasing birth rate just due to financial strain so if there are multiple factors that are impacting the numbers that’s all the better right?
Korea IS A monolith when it comes to a number of factors. Culturally Korea is the antithesis of “diverse”.
My point is that America is nothing similar to Korea culturally to pull this off.
Well, I’m pretty sure you’re right about South Korea. I don’t see that as a reason not to try though. I can only hope that you’re wrong about America. I appreciate the insight.
E: Even if it isn’t super effective, every little bit helps.
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Yeah no. Continuing this rhetoric is exactly how the Democrats will continue to lose elections. Making vast assumptions about men and telling them they’re lesser is what drove away voters for the past 4 years. The vast majority of men have no desire or whim to do any of what you claim.
Edit: Just realized the swipe typo. Corrected.
Doesn’t need to be vast. You saw how a tiny group called MAGA got control of the government and people’s minds. You underestimate their plan. The next four years is going to be a lot of, “but… they can’t do that?!” for a lot of people.
Once again. No. What lost the democrats the win was Kamala. Biden refusing to step down earlier so proper primaries could be done (not sure why they didn’t just hold primaries ANYWAY). The democrat party proved in 2020 that nobody wanted or even like Kamala (https://www.vox.com/2019/11/20/20953284/kamala-harris-polls-2020-election or lookup any poll from 2019). Her inability to actually talk about her platform (and how she’ll attain her actual goals) and answer the question being asked lost her a lot too. A hard focus on issues that were not “top of mind” for the majority of the country didn’t help either. Not some conspiracy that a handful of republicans are pulling the strings everywhere. People were simply unmotivated to vote for someone who couldn’t answer how she’d do any of what she claimed to want to do.
Regardless of what you think the border IS a valid problem.
Now there’s some magic plan? Either they’re stupid or masterminds. You can’t really have it both ways. Nobody is out there convincing people that women aren’t human and have no rights. Stop with your nonsense.
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Total votes cast: 143,000,000
Percentage of voters who are women: 54%
Number of female voters: 143,000,000 × 0.54 = 77,220,000
Percentage of women who voted for Harris: 54%
Estimated number of women who voted for Harris: 77,220,000 × 0.54 ≈ 41,698,800
This is a rough estimate. More complete data will become available later.
I think that’s enough people to have an impact
- Assumptions:
We assume that 41.7 million women strictly adhere to the B4 movement.
This group represents a significant share of women of childbearing age (usually defined as 15-44 years in demographic studies).
We estimate the average U.S. woman has around 1.7 children over her lifetime, aligning with current U.S. fertility rates.
- Impact on Births:
41.7 million women choosing not to have children would mean approximately 1.7 fewer children per woman, over their lifetimes.
This would potentially prevent around 70.9 million births (41.7 million x 1.7) in the long term, assuming these women otherwise would have had children.
- Annual Impact:
Spread over an average reproductive lifetime (roughly 30 years), this impact would reduce the birth rate by about 2.36 million births annually (70.9 million divided by 30 years).
Annual U.S. births could drop from 3.6 million to approximately 1.24 million, which is a ~65% decrease in the birth rate.
What common features would there need to be in order for it to work in the US? Seems that being patriarchal, traditionalist, conformist and capitalist would suffice.
Well, Trump’s tarrifs should make it cost ineffective to import women.
/s (sort of)
Given how reactionary the average Gen Z guys are, this is less of a protest and more of a self-preservation tactic.
Jokes on you, they’re just going to go full Roman Empire and take twink concubines, apparently.
Matt Gaetz has entered the chat
How do one sign up to get one or a few of these twink concubines? Asking for a friend.
Claim that you killed Osama bin Laden first. Then we’ll talk.
I started this in 2016 in the lead up to the election. Got sterilized in 2022 after the Dobbs decision leaked. Too many guys are secret misogynists at best, and pro rape/anti-abortion at worst. The lectures I had to do to convince my ex that rape is rape, whether you fight off the perp or not.
I can’t imagine having to make that decision.
Same boat, but executed the sterilization much earlier (2014 or so when they were starting to really push the TRAPP laws). Saw the writing on the wall and want nothing to do with any of it.
Me, a lesbian: Aktivsm
The problem, if you look at the data, is lots of women voted for Trump too.
White women specifically. I’m sure they’re uneducated also
There’s women who say they’d vote against womens right to vote, you can’t trust people to vote for their best interests.
Given that the new agenda is to end birth control, no-fault divorce and spousal rape laws, a lot of women are about to have no say past the first one. Don’t get married, and if you’re in a bad marriage try to get out ASAP.
Yeah, and men who support women’s right. Need to support this as well.
Seriously, look at recent events in Texas. Having sex with women while republicans are in power. It is a potential death sentence for those women.
Unless you can groove beyond doubt, one off you is infertile. And honestly, given the way some republicans are. Only trust your own eyes on the microscope when checking. Because forcing doctors to lie to women is far from beyond some of these people.
Honestly, leaving the US for a more liberal nation is the only safe option the way things are looking.
I don’t even know what that liberal nation would be anymore. Sure, for example, Europe is still largely pretty good, but even some of those countries are facing the rise of the right. And they have same objectives as the right here in the US has. Just because it’s not as bad as the US right now, doesn’t mean it can’t be in the future, or even near future. Look at what’s going on in Germany or France with the right or even far-right parties making large gains in recent elections and polls.
Feel like it’s fucked in much of the world right now.
I mean, considering how many incels voted for trump, I think we’re pretty much already there. Many of the young men who voted red this election already have no close relationships with any women their age. Obviously women should exercise their autonomy as they see fit. I don’t expect it to change how anyone votes.
I’ll probably be downvoted for this, but progressives have spent the last several years actively shutting down lines of communication with men, particularly white men. For the best of reasons, sure, but it hasn’t been an effective strategy for winning elections.
Maybe this would sway some group of center-left men who didn’t bother voting, but realistically I expect it will have no effect on the ongoing polarization, or exagerrate it.
It’s interesting that the response to men going their own way (MGTOW) is indifference or at most pity whilst WGTOW are met with hostility.
Mgtow was not met with indifference. They’ve been consistently criticized since the movement first started, and they quickly evolved into a cabal of Nazi-adjacent freaks. Fuck those guys.
There may be some good that could come from a men’s movement for self actualization and improvement, but mgtow sure as shit wasn’t that
MGTOW should be indifferent, but they kinda got hijacked into another red pill BS place. Their lives revolve around hate for women and not actually going your own way and finding what makes you content.
Except for a million articles like:
The ‘Men Going Their Own Way’ movement is the Taliban of the manosphere
https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/politics/article/men-going-their-own-way-movement
MGTOW is absolutely no better.
I wonder if this results in more kids being raised in brainwashy conservative families.
Not more kids by total but more kids by %. But it won’t be enough to keep the old people and economy in its current state alive.
Is a future dominated by kids raised by these families one worth going through all this effort for?
As I mentioned in another comment, one of the conservatives I know put their kid in a captain America outfit yesterday cuz he was “defending America”.
If this was wide spread it wouldn’t matter, the 1% would not have anyone to stand on.
So this is more scorched earth and punitive than it is trying to fix things?
It forces the system to become something new.
The system which is made up of a bunch of kids raised in brainwashed conservative households.
I feel like this is, in part, voluntarily abstaining from passing your values down to the next generation, which night not have the intended effect.
That new thing could be worse than the current thing without a plan to drive it to where we want to go.
And part of me feels it would be well earned, right? Not the best part of me.
I’ve been seriously struggling with the idea that the changes that are about to come are going to destroy what chances we had left to recover this world from the damage our species has done.
By percentage, but the total birthrate would (continue to) go down.
And now Trump’s gonna make it harder to immigrate, so the population may actually start nosediving.
Yeah, others have portrayed that as the goal here.
I just feel like I wouldn’t feel particularly attached to the fate of a country raised by brainwashing conservative families anyways, so it’s a scorched earth approach. Yes, you’ve broken the system, and it can be remade now, but those doing the remaking likely won’t carry your values…
Maybe we need to adopt. Obviously the cost of this is pretty huge, but it could maybe work. Just a thought.
White women voted for Trump so this is never going to work
Not all of em! According to the exit poll data, 44% of women voted for Donald Trump in the 2024 presidential election, 54% voted for Harris. I think that’s enough to make a difference. 🤷
So what happens when we have a generation of kids almost entirely raised by the 44% of women who voted for Trump into brainwashy conservative families? I already see enough 5 year olds attending trump boat parades and the such to give me concern. A conservative I know dressed their kid up as Capt America yesterday because they were “defending America” after the election.
Seems like it’d suck if an entire generation was raised in these families.
So it’d hasten Idiocracy? Kinda a IBDYBD problem I suppose.
Seriously though, I think the key would be to drive enough engagement with this so that this in combination with the obvious financial hardships that everyone’s facing completely annihilates the birth rate.
I googled IBDYBD and the best I got was irritable bowel disease, lmao. I have no clue what that means, can you fill me in?
I don’t see the trump voters going for this at all is the problem.
It was a joke. By the time that’s a problem I’ll be dead you’ll be dead. IBDYBD
Aaaah, thanks!
You’re welcome internet stranger.
Everyone in here arguing against 4b need to take a look in the mirror. The fact that so many of you are trying push against it is in itself a demonstration of why it’s necessary. Respecting bodily autonomy does not have to be hard.
Bodily autonomy is the ability to choose 4b, not the reason to do so. Folks arguing against 4b have not disrespected the ability to do 4b. Therefore bodily autonomy is still respected.
“It’s over internet commenter! I have portrayed you negatively in a meme, showing you as the naive you are”
Yes, posting a message on the internet while violating nobody’s personal space or rights is exactly the same as that picture. You did it! You won the internet! You can go away now.
Go away
Now
FYI, you’re on Beehaw. Please be(e) nice. I know it’s crazy times right now, I get it, but we do want folks to still abide by our rules and such here. Thanks.
While it took several minutes to find your rules, your “spirit of the rules” document specifically identifies what I did as positive: regardless of the other user fake following the rules the spirit of their post was extremely negative and portrayed the other commenter in a false rude light, which I immediately called him out on and asked him to leave. This is a paradox of intolerance situation and you seem to be on the side of intolerance which I’m not a fan of since your bee nice philosophy appears to be explicitly against it.
This is a paradox of intolerance situation and you seem to be on the side of intolerance
First time in a toxicly over-positive online space, eh?
And not even on purpose, just showed up on /all
Cute (I actually laughed, haha), but the assumption that meme makes is that it’s clear the gal doesn’t want to participate in the conversation due to body language.
There’s none of that when you’re commenting in a public politics community. You’re not posting in a community for 4b, for example. Additionally, you’re the one that made the initial comment.
By attempting to talk over and belittle others who respond you’re acting like the guy in the meme.
that meme makes is that it’s clear the gal doesn’t want to participate in the conversation due to body language.
Not trying to argue against the meme, how it’s used and understood etc, but: You can’t interpret body language from a still image, you need at least like two or three movements, you need to see how someone reacts to their own movements so to speak. She might just as well be going “woah, cool”, slight backward surprise movement, and the two are the most wholesome couple you’ve ever met. Or she actually really wants to get out of there. That’s the point: The still image itself is too little information to make the distinction.
Ciswomen were having sex?
Then wait, why are there so many incels?
Joking aside, there actually have been times when I’ve been at a social event and I’m gonna fuck a guy because why not… but he starts going off on incel bullshit and how far right he is because “Women aren’t women” anymore, and I’m like… “Yeah I gotta go…” while thinking “Can’t believe he talked his way OUT of a sure thing.”
So I fully understand why there are so many incels.
“Can’t believe he talked his way OUT of a sure thing.”
People are great at stealing defeat from the jaws of victory!
Kind of the theme of the week, no?
Do what you want. I don’t give a fuck.
I don’t give a fuck
Ah, see what you did there.
