• @frog_brawler@lemmy.world
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    17 days ago

    Weird… as a cis heterosexual white male, I don’t find myself hanging around people that I need to censor or correct at all. I’ve proactively cut all of those people out of my life within the past 8 years. My friends are the folks you don’t need to tell stuff like this to.

    I will say, in the process of removing people that were awful, they tend to just laugh when they are “corrected,” as they find amusement in the antagonization. Once you separate yourself from them, it’s just 2-3 confused text messages and that’s the end of it.

    • @BleatingZombie@lemmy.world
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      716 days ago

      I do (cuz family). Calling them out like this is one of my favorite pastimes since they think I’m 100% with them. Stopping them in their tracks can be really entertaining

      • @sudoer777@lemmy.ml
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        216 days ago

        My family is conservative and I’m still dependant on them for healthcare, so calling them out usually isn’t worth it although sometimes I still do.

        • @BleatingZombie@lemmy.world
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          116 days ago

          Please do what’s safest for you! The family I mentioned is actually my cousins’ in-laws, so there’s no real consequence

    • @vinnymac@lemmy.world
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      817 days ago

      Not saying cutting people out is wrong, you do you. But don’t you think all of this alienation we are collectively doing is leading to the echo chambers that reinforce bad behaviors?

      • @maniclucky@lemmy.world
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        416 days ago

        I can only control my own behavior. I cannot force another to change, they have to want to. The only thing I can do is draw the lines I’m willing to live within and live by them. And if not associating with bad people, even if they are family, is what I need to live in a healthy way, so be it.

      • @solstice@lemmy.world
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        216 days ago

        I hear you, but idk what to do. I can’t engage with someone who says out loud things like “I want trump to become a dictator” and “democracy is overrated” and “your body my choice” and don’t seem to care at all that mass deporting 10+million people WILL lead to mass murder. It’s impossible to have a discussion in good faith with these people. They’ve just demonstrated that the last 8-9 years is a feature, not a bug, and let the mask off about who they really are. They’ve alienated themselves by leaving the realm of reality.

      • @frog_brawler@lemmy.world
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        17 days ago

        I do, but I don’t want to be around those people. I don’t think being around them (and trying to influence) changes anything for the better either.

      • @sudoer777@lemmy.ml
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        16 days ago

        I’m not really sure. One of the most common complaints among the less extreme portions of the right is that the left is too intolerant and strict and not fun to be around. And being more welcoming of the person themselves, even while acknowledging to yourself that their beliefs are severely flawed (possibly due to factors such as propaganda, peer pressure, religious beliefs), might be a way to help capture that crowd and work to win them over.

        At the same time, there needs to be a line drawn somewhere where the person is clearly being malicious and possibly dangerous and is a lost cause. Stuff like “your body my choice”, using slurs, praising suicides of marginalized people, etc isn’t worth tolerating. Also when it comes to group activities, allowing these sort of people and ideas makes minorities uncomfortable, so when they leave to someplace more comfortable now your group is just full of Nazis. I seen no problem with cutting these sort of people out.

    • @Wogi@lemmy.world
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      416 days ago

      They think this is a culture war. They believe they are at war with ideas they do not like.

      They will not give ground until forced to do so. They will only do so begrudgingly, and insincerely, waiting for the day they can claw it back.

      They see you as an enemy, and they give themselves rage chubbies at the thought of refusing to negotiate.

      Absolutely, if you hear this nonsense, call it out, but be prepared for it to escalate.

      Let’s return to a time when saying that crap out loud was enough to end a career. Make them afraid to be bigoted in public again.

  • @Professorozone@lemmy.world
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    317 days ago

    I usually ask what the hell it even matters to them and I usually get the Republican talking points. They’re not going to change their minds because you shame them. Haters gonna hate. It’s a shame but humans have a very long history of hating those that are not like them. Keep trying though, you never know…

    • @electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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      117 days ago

      There’s real value in just letting them know you won’t tolerate that bullshit in your presence. It means you’ll hear less of it, for one, and it may actually affect their thinking depending on how they feel about you, and whether they have never received any push back previously.

  • JaggedRobotPubes
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    2817 days ago

    “I won’t let you talk to them that way” is a bad one that doesn’t belong on this list. It implies you’re in control of them, which you’re not. It’s essentially a bluff, and if they call it, you need to be able to beat them up.

    To add more good phrases to this list, the phrases need to imply that the person still has their own agency (because they do), and that it’s just a dipshit way to use that agency. The other phrases are great.

  • socsa
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    215 days ago

    This is legit why I have like two male friends left tbh. After 2016 I stopped giving a fuck. The problem… or maybe the cause in a way… is that I’m an oddly assertive introvert so it’s very easy for me to end up in a situation where I’m doing nothing but going off on people and making drama.

  • @felsiq@lemmy.zip
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    1917 days ago

    ITT: a lot of people reading this to be specifically and only for cis white men, but they’re talking about the power any in-group member has to shut down bigoted shit and that’s what we should be focusing on. In a space where the biggest in-group is black women this post would be about them, but the most common “in-group” (disproportionately so) is white cis men so that’s who they mention. If this is making you feel attacked or targeted then please set aside that part of it and don’t discard the actual message, because this is honestly something everyone should think about.

    Anytime you’re accepted somewhere, whether in public or among strangers, you have a lot of social power when it comes to setting the tone of conversation - one loud idiot can make a space feel extremely hostile to an outsider, and if everybody gives a polite laugh instead of speaking up that idiot learns saying things like that is okay and the “outsider” learns they’re not truly welcome. Literally one person who speaks up instead of letting it fly can solve this - the message is to be that person, not to attack anyone in particular.

    • @raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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      1217 days ago

      If this is making you feel attacked or targeted

      As a “cis het white man”, I wouldn’t dream to feel attacked by this and find it mind-boggling how anyone could be so fucking braindead and/or tone-deaf that they would feel attacked. But here we are, in a world where there is a “soon to be Nazi-America” where there was once the united states of America.

    • Track_ShovelOP
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      717 days ago

      Look at you, with the hemispheres of your brain actually somewhat separate from one another.

      It’s really refreshing to have someone actually get the meaning behind this meme instead of say ‘not all men’ or the equivalent.

      • @Soulg@sh.itjust.works
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        317 days ago

        I want to know why you, and so many others apparently, cannot grasp the idea of pointing out why one aspect of something is problematic without, by default, being an implication that the entire thing is wrong or that they hate all of it etc etc.

        I’m not even offended by it, but I get why someone would be, but that doesn’t take away from the point of the post either. It’s really fucking weird and feels intellectually dishonest.

  • AItoothbrush
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    1618 days ago

    The “do you hear yourself right now?” is a good one, gonna use it well

  • @electric_nan@lemmy.ml
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    3218 days ago

    These comments, yeesh. I am a cis white dude, and I don’t see how this post is offensive. As I’ve gotten older and more self-confident, I absolutely call people out for their garbage opinions/statements. Being a cis/straight/white dude it happens all the time that somebody says something racist/sexist/homophobic in front of me assuming I’ll be sympathetic. I’ve used all these “scripts” and encourage you all to use them also.

    • @captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      517 days ago

      Yeah I’m not cis, het, or a dude, but I do this stuff when people assume I’ll join in racism. I’ll challenge that shit and attempt to help lead them to the truth

      • @Ziglin@lemmy.world
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        117 days ago

        If I know I’ll have to talk to them again soon I’ll just awkwardly look away, hoping they figure it out themselves but other than that I try to be the exact same.

  • @ntma@lemm.ee
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    417 days ago

    Telling a dude to shut the fuck up works in any context. I yell it at strangers all the time

  • @whoisearth@lemmy.ca
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    918 days ago

    Honest question wtf is a “het” now?

    I’m pretty pronoun positive but seriously this shit is getting ridiculous.

    • .Donuts
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      618 days ago

      It’s got a space, normally it’s written “cishet” meaning cisgender, heterosexual

        • @killingspark@feddit.org
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          1818 days ago

          Cis is the opposite of trans, homo is the opposite of hetero, Cishet is a shorthand often used instead of “normal” because we’re all normal just different

          • Flying Squid
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            1218 days ago

            Not everyone knows and this person is trying to learn. Let’s not be critical.

            • @Wolf314159@startrek.website
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              1318 days ago

              I want off Mr. Bones wild ride.

              Sound pretty critical. This isn’t the take of someone that’s genuinely curious and asking in good faith.

              • Flying Squid
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                818 days ago

                Or is it the take of someone who feels frustrated by things they don’t understand?

                Considering they also said they looked it up and they get it now in response to you 10 minutes before this reply, I don’t think what you are saying is in especially good faith.

                • @Wolf314159@startrek.website
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                  318 days ago

                  Getting frustrated by things you don’t understand is an acceptable excuse? I saw your spicy reply before theirs in my inbox, that’s all. Not sure why you’re inserting all this drama into what was basically an very in context conversation.

                  Frustrated by new thing. Makes it weird

                  The new thing is this. Don’t make it weird.

                  Okay I understand.

                  Good. It’s not that you didn’t know, it’s the attitude.

                  Isn’t that the whole point of the post? Having conversations like this regularly.

  • @explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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    1818 days ago

    I’m going to use all of these except the “I won’t let you” because that could trigger the right wing persecution complex, and/or sound like fighting words.

    I want them to think normal people (not me tbh) are put off by their weird shit.

    • @lseif@sopuli.xyz
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      617 days ago

      it also reminds me of the whiteknighting “alpha” cliche; “i will protect u, my princess”. maybe thats just me.

  • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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    18 days ago

    Why do people like this talk down to straight men, while asking for the allegiance? As an older person you young people aren’t very nice or accepting to each other.

    You see all sorts of posts calling straight guys males, and telling them how awful and dangerous they are, but if you say “female” you’re Hitler. No wonder the young guys in the u.s feel hated

      • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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        18 days ago

        Ah. Yet another humorless dolt who is offended by a Simpsons joke. It must be tiring for you American authoritarian leftists, being the victims all the time, while you fuck up the world and look down on everyone who doesn’t follow your hard view to the letter

          • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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            17 days ago

            Toxic , disgusting bigots on both ends now. You Americans are all such terrorists.

            We stopped accepting trash ppl like you a long time ago.

            Racism and xenophobia even from the left these days ,wow.

          • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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            17 days ago

            Toxic, hateful American bigot. You guys used to come in just the red variety but this election they come in blue! If you’re even slightly to the right or left of someone, you’re instantly Hitler. I’m far more left than you, I’m just not a fucking baby and I know my duty to stand against fascist. You guys fuck the world then look down on everyone and moralize. This is why we hate you around the world. I used to hate your right wingers, now I’ve written of all you toxic, racist, disgusting fools. And yes, even racist leftists now. I’ve never experienced personal racism against me from the left until this election. You alienated me when you white kids called my native ass Hitler for disagreeing with you.

            Liberal is the new insult you kids picked to replace Nazi

            • @masquenox@lemmy.world
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              117 days ago

              I’m far more left than you

              Is that why you don’t seem to understand what a liberal is?

              I’m just not a fucking baby

              Weren’t you the person who was whining about the term “cis” just a while ago?

              You alienated me

              No, you did that to yourself.

      • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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        117 days ago

        What’s crazy to me is that anytime you try and defend CIS people you get downvoted and people assume you’re CIS and right wing. I’ve never in my life have voted for a conservative, and I’m bisexual, but I’m a “liberal!” I’m 2024 if I have an even slightly differing opinion. And liberal means Nazi now apparently? It’s wild.

        Your country has become super toxic this election cycle. Before it was just the right now it’s the left also. Go look at anyone in these threads with a differing opinion even within the left, and they’re not just downvoted but there’s a lot of name calling, insults, etc. It’s really depressing

    • @piccolo@sh.itjust.works
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      517 days ago

      Acknowledging people are assholes and making them accountable isnt talking down.

      Young guys feel hated because for a first time, they are growing up in a society that is no longer tolerateing toxic masculinity and unfortunately many have not grow up with good male role models, so they tend to latch onto peices of shit that teach them to blame all their problems on others and not self relfecting.

      • @kazaika@lemmy.world
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        217 days ago

        By generalising that X people are aholes you are talking down. What is your definition of toxic masculinity ? What would be a good male role model we have around ? iyo

    • Maple Engineer
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      18 days ago

      I came here to say this. So many use, “cis” as though it’s a slur then demand support from the people they are throwing the slur at. I’ve been an ally my entire life but I’ve been labeled a transphobe twice over the last several months because I expressed a belief that wasn’t a full throated endorsement of the extremist dogma.

      EDIT: The downvotes prove my point. Anything other than absolute unquestioning adherance to the totality of the dogmatic belief system is unacceptable. Keep burning those bridges.

      • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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        1118 days ago

        I’m native and I’ve been called a Nazi by white leftists this election cause I don’t agree fully with what they say.

        The left really went off the deep end this election and became just as intolerant of different people within their own side, as they are of the right.

          • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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            317 days ago

            I’m Canadian and the American left is wild this cycle. Hate. Name calling. Even racism. We’re all very disappointed around the world.

            • Maple Engineer
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              217 days ago

              Who is this, “we’re all”, that you’ve appointed yourself spokesperson for? Given the poll numbers you’re speaking out your ass.

              • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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                317 days ago

                Oh I was backing you up cause someone name called you, and got immediately turned around to be a name calling jerk lol. The toxicity spreads. Why are people so offensive to strangers online? Cause we’re faceless I guess? Easier to be inhumane and offensive when you can’t see the person huh? Real mature

                • Maple Engineer
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                  17 days ago

                  Calling a fascist a fascist is no more name calling than calling a Canadian a Canadian. Calling someone you don’t agree with or whose opinion you are trying to devalue a snowflake is childish name calling.

                  I’m fact, Mike Godwin himself said, “By all means, compare these shitheads to the Nazis, again and again. I’m with you.”

        • @Nuke_the_whales@lemmy.world
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          217 days ago

          Are you cis? Cause if not how would you know?

          I had to have a serious talk as a person of color with my gay sister in law and her wife, after she would casually refer to straight people as “breeders”. They couldn’t understand why I was connecting that word with racism, even after I explained what it meant in the slave South.

          I’ve rarely seen a tweet or post that begins with “cis men…” That ends in anything but negativity