Yeah, both sides amiright?
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there. The Palestinians had a chance under Harris. Instead of voting for a chance for the Palestinians, you did nothing or voted for genocide. You did it from the other side of the world, where you won’t have to suffer the consequences.
“A vOTe fOR hARriS iS a VoTE FoR gENociDe”
Fucking morons
Fucking Russians. Fixed it for you.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Doubtful: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/15/biden-israel-gaza-palestine
It’s not genocide if they aren’t people.
–Trump, Probably
The entire unhinged right wing has been declaring them UnPersons for decades. I remember in the 90s, possibly earlier, hearing wingers saying “Palestine is not even a country, it was made up by the libs/Muslims, using the term ‘Palestinian’ is talking nonsense”, and so on.
The Israelis have used that line since before 1948. Standard colonial cultural erasure.
“A land without a people for a people without a land” is an old Zionist settler colonial propaganda piece that is supported by Zionist liberals as well. This coincides with Israeli “culture”, which is a weird mix of vaguely European, vaguely Jewish-ish, and the appropriation of Levantine culture. For example, going around calling hummus and pita “Israeli foods”.
Just to help illustrate.
Given the stark difference in how Dems resoonded to the plight of Ukrainians vs. Palestinians, it’s clear that this is also the tacit Dem position and what upsets their voters is for it to be explicitly acknowledged.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
based on what data? You’re just making stuff up.
based on them trying to feel better about voting for genocide and losing. they got the worst of both worlds instead of doing the right thing and gathering support for a better party
The mighty democratic party ladies and gents, blaming their epic across-the-entire government, across every demographic loss on a tiny minority of voters they explicitely said they’d bomb —instead of owning the fact that they are out of touch with all of their voters who arent rich people.
Yeah, but they’ve stuck to their guns, and now they can stand proud next to the bodies, knowing they never compromised on their moral integrity.
We are not the ones complicit in this genocide. That is, in fact, those supporting the people committing genocide.
Please remember this statement when we see what exactly the Trump admin does to stop the genocide.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
No, they didn’t.
Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the night, buddy.
Right back atcha.
Well, to all the folks arguing with me on how voting for Harris was bad because of Gaza: CONGRATULATIONS! You REALLY made a point there.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders. The candidate and strategy that you embraced was a gamble tbat you could support genocide and still win the election if you just recycled enough bad faith talking points at the people who consistently oppose genocide.
As you can see, you were wrong. And yet here you are trying to blame others rather than learn this lesson. Do some self-criticism instead. I hope you can forgive yourself for supporting genocide for a cynical loser like Harris.
The Palestinians had a chance under Harris.
Harris, of the Biden-Harris regime, has had an identical line to Biden’s during this 13 months of US-backed genocide. Unconditional material support and some empty rhetoric trying to PR handle their base rather than change policy.
What do you imagine when you say, “had a chance”? Is it the current mass civilian bombing campaigns? Children burned alive? Mass starvation and malnutrition? Those are the things you’ve gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
you did nothing or voted for genocide
The people voting for genocidal candidates like Harris or Trump voted for genocode. That was something you seem to have done, but not I.
You did it from the other side of the world, where you won’t have to suffer the consequences.
You cannot make your support for a genocider into an anti-privilege clapback. Do some self-criticism because this is gross.
Yes, I hope you can take this time to internalize a lesson: you should not support genocide or genociders.
Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won? As in, showing more support for the genociding party and demonstratively siding in all points with the genociders with not even rhetorical pushback, just pure endorsement of the genocide? Which lesson will analysing this election yield again?
Sorry, what exactly is the lesson to be learned from this election, in which the candidate who more vocally supports the genocide won?
If it must be fully spelled out, it is that you cannot rope people whose politics is premised on empathy into supporting genocide and you will lose unless you demand better. If you want to fight against the forces of reaction, you cannot triangulate towards them, you have to actually have a semi-principled political program, not one premised on tokenization and “vote for us or the other guy will kill you even more”.
You seem to be wrong. Donald Trump didn’t demand better and he didn’t lose. The more pro-genocide party objectively won.
people whose politics is premised on empathy
You must not have read this part. Republican politics don’t rely on empathy, but democratic policy supposedly does, thus less turnout for a less empathetic democratic candidate.
That’s a very narrow grouping you draw there. Because in that group you are describing, the democrats got the most votes bar none. Nobody in that narrow category got even got close.
Those are the things you’ve gone to bat for, that is the realized vision of the Biden-Harris regime.
There’s a difference between making the best of a bad situation and going to bat for it. Your choices were someone who there is a chance of reigning in Israel or someone that told them to do whatever they want with weapons we send. The latter is obviously a bad choice unless you agree with Israel.
removed by mod
Weird how repeatedly calling for an immediate cease fire and a two state solution in Israel = “genocide”.
March - https://www.npr.org/2024/03/04/1234822836/kamala-harris-benny-gantz-gaza-cease-fire-israel-hamas
“Monday’s meeting in Washington, D.C., comes one day after Harris called for an immediate, temporary cease-fire in Gaza to facilitate an exchange of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners and detainees. Harris is expected to continue pressing Israel to pause the fighting and allow more humanitarian aid into Gaza.”
July - https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/25/harris-netanyahu-israel-cease-fire-00171315
“Vice President Kamala Harris met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in private Thursday and followed it with a strikingly forceful call on his government to get a cease-fire deal done and ease the suffering of civilians in Gaza.”
“Vice President Kamala Harris reiterated her call for a ceasefire-for-hostage deal in Gaza while expressing sympathy for both Israelis and Palestinians affected by the conflict. Harris condemned the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas on southern Israel but said “far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed” by Israel’s ongoing military offensive in Gaza.”
Do you get something out of mis-representing what she said and did? Or were you just not actually paying attention?
So what is your solution be since Gaza is so important to you? Do you want to be absolved of your voting decision?
deleted by creator
Let’s be real. The Zionists in charge are Nazis and there was never a path out of genocide in these elections.
It’s also part of the evangelical grifter prophecy that the Jews be in control of all of old Isreal before the apocalypse starts.
Trump will dismantle this country and the Christians will cheer it on as society circles the drain because the version of their book that was rewritten in the 70s says so.
It will at least be funny to see them all realize that the “rapture” probably already happened and they’re all still here XD
Trump will dismantle this country and the Christians will cheer it on as society circles the drain
These idiots should be disqualified for holding office, since at least some of them, and/or the people they represent, simply don’t think this world matters, but only their fictional eschatology.
It’s bananas when you actually talk to some of them. Weirdly, though, some of them are still preppers. Wait, I thought you will be one of the blessed chosen ones in the end times? WTF are they stockpiling MREs and thinking they’ll be hunting for deer with a bow and arrow or some shit…none of their plans - if you can call them that - make any fucking sense, but they want to rule so that they can drag more advanced people, cultures, and societies down with them into their lunacy and their absolute literal hellscape.
The Rapture happened, three Quakers, a Unitarian and a radical Catholic nun disappeared mysteriously, otherwise business as usual.
Such a fucking idiotic take… I’m sure Palestinians will take heart in this sentiment when they get gassed out of existence on January 21.
I’m not happy about it either.
The Zionist entity, generally speakinf, does not use gas. They use large scake bombing campaigns and white phosphorus. This has already been happening for 13 months, if you weren’t aware.
Everyone in north Gaza will be dead or deported before new years. That will be complete before Trump even takes office. How can you still pretend Biden is somehow better when the outcome is the same?
giving putin a free pass at ukraine will be after lunch, then?
He’s not sure, he’s still waiting on orders from Putin.
Putin isn’t waiting, he apparently started amassing troops within a day of the election.
removed by mod
removed by mod
Harris supporters never embraced genocide.Take your bullshit and leave.
But you’re ok embracing Trump genocide?
No? Why are you making things up?
Am I? If you don’t think we get more genocide with Trump you are willfully not paying attention.
Almost everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years. That happened entirely under Biden. Do you think Trump will kill them a second time?
We all know Trump is objectively worse but your argument is terrible; it’s like the Americans saying we should overlook Bush’s atrocities like Abu Ghraib because Saddam Hussein was worse. No, that’s just a fallacy.
Your premise is based on this: "Almost everyone in north Gaza will be dead by new years. "
Which is clearly and obviously false. Check back with me on Jan 1.
“Do you think Trump will kill them a second time?”
The Trump administration will enable the complete erasure of the Palestinian people and their land. Huckabee has said as much already. Israelis have said as much too. I believe them.
Finally, do you think nothing else matters? Do you think the consequences of a Trump administration beyond Palestine don’t matter? If so, I’d encourage you to spend less time virtue signaling and more time checking your privilege.
The UN has said it explicitly. Famine has taken place and aid is not allowed in. Biden withdrew his ultimatum and the Generals Plan is being implemented. But are you happy if only 70% of North Gazans died then man you sure showed me up.
It’s no question Trump is worse for West Bank and Palestinian aspirations, because he’s only accelerating the same policy that Biden agreed to. In terms of Gaza there really is no difference; the four years of Biden was worse for their lives than 4 years of Trump. But you’re being offensive by saying I need to ignore the Palestinian people whose funerals I attended because Trump is going to do the same thing in a nastier way. You dismissing my community’s real pain as virtue signaling just shows how out of touch you are and why Harris lost. Listen for a change.
In what way were we wrong? Did we ever claim Trump would be good on Gaza?
Yes. Now fuck off.
exit polls showed that harris lost mainly on the economy. You just want to pretend it was gaza so you can point fingers.
Nope, it was the apathy. Democrats that came out to vote for Biden 4 years ago stayed home. That’s a FACT you can count in the number of votes cast this election vs last.
You know what else is a fact? People that stayed home and didn’t vote DIDN’T GET EXIT POLLED.
Exit polls and polls leading up to election. Come on now, lets not mince words or pretend the data wasnt obvious. They did know. It was all over the news snce the day she started her run.
“The economy, particularly inflation and the cost of living, is the primary issue for a majority of voters.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm24g1nj364o
Bidens historically low approval rating was well documented, and the reason for it being low was well understood. She chose to say that “she couldnt think of anything she’d change” or something like that. She ran on a platform that had already ended up on the rocks long ago. Centrists just put their fingers in their ears and pretended Biden was the second coming of FDR whenever Biden was criticised, but the numbers were there waiting to be read if you cared about reality and dropped the infantile “rooting for your sports team, blue no matter who” mentality.
88% of Americans disagreed with how the US was acting in the Israeli war on gazans. Did you think that would be cost-free, or that Biden showed he had votes to burn in the last election or the ones before that? he didnt. Harris knew that wouldnt be consequence free. She ran with it anyway. Thats just Bidens stubborn rightwing-fellating petulant stupidity thats been the hallmark of his entire career bleeding into Harrnis’ campaign. A competent politician wouldnt have taken on that baggage when it was so obviously going to cost big in swing states.
“The vice president has said she would not change from Biden’s policies, and argued that Israel has a right to defend itself. But she has also said that far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed”
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4895174-democrats-middle-east-conflict/
She chose to say that “she couldnt think of anything she’d change”
She said she wouldn’t have done anything differently from what Biden did. When asked what the difference between a Harris and Biden admin would be, she said she would appoint a republican to the cabinet.
Exit polls are flawed in the sense that the people who don’t vote aren’t there to begin with.
Oh so now we trust polls. Got it.
Link or it didn’t happen.
Harris lost because of a lack of blue voters who didn’t get an exit poll.
There were more red there, and they claim to have voted because of economy because racism and hurting the other team wasn’t on the official ticket.
I bet you couldn’t even name a single example
There were two ways to vote for Trump. 1) Mark Trump on your ballot and turn it in, or 2) Not vote for Harris, not turn in a ballot at all.
Quit being coy, just take a bow and acknowledge your victory. You stood strong against genocide, and helped elect the only candidate who can’t be reasoned with and whose stated political policy was to SPEED UP THE GENOCIDE. Congrats! If you thought their blood wasn’t on your hands before, it absolutely is now.
There were two ways to vote for Trump. 1) Mark Trump on your ballot and turn it in, or 2) Not vote for Harris, not turn in a ballot at all.
By this logic a vote for Jill Stein would be a vote for Harris, lol. Question your political masters, this just isn’t logical at all.
Quit being coy, just take a bow and acknowledge your victory.
It is good for Democratic voters to have failed while supporting genocide. You shouldn’t support genocide and I shouldn’t have to lecture you like this. Be a good person.
You stood strong against genocide, and helped elect the only candidate who can’t be reasoned with and whose stated political policy was to SPEED UP THE GENOCIDE.
Israel already has unconditional support for its genocide and opened up two new fronts with the suppory of the Biden-Harris administration. Israel does not have one hsnd tied behind its back. The dominant global empire supports it materially and diplomatically.
Your lesser evil logic means nothing here. It is again just a thought terminating cliché from your political masters. Instead of justifying lesser-evil genocide, please go and inform yourself and work to help others.
Congrats! If you thought their blood wasn’t on your hands before, it absolutely is now.
Blood is on the hands of those committing and supporting genocide, not those who fifht against it. Look at how this political illogic has twisted your understanding of basic reality.
There were two ways to vote for Trump. 1) Mark Trump on your ballot and turn it in, or 2) Not vote for Harris, not turn in a ballot at all.
In that case, Trump has won with an overwhelming majority in every election he’s ever run in, since nonvoters are like half the population and all of them count as voting for Trump.
Back here in reality, that’s not how it works.
Genocide Joe has been an established term for months.
Most dissidents have been banned from .world to keep the echo chamber functional.
you’ve got .ml and others, that’s where all the “dissidents” hang out. Must be hard to be a dissident when everyone agrees with you.
.ml has some trigger happy mods but nobody gets banned for criticizing the democratic party for supporting a genocide.
You can tell how much of an echo chamber it is here since there are no weapons restrictions for Trump to lift. Because the democrats did not place any.
.ml has some trigger happy mods but nobody gets banned for criticizing the democratic party for supporting a genocide.
Oh you don’t get banned for going along with Russian propaganda? Wow, weird huh.
But then you do get banned for pointing out Russian propaganda.
Here.
That’s @davel@lemmy.ml pushing against BlueSky, spreading his usual bullshit links about “Nazis”. He thinks Ukraine is filled with Nazis and Russia was right to invade it. Now “BlueSky is filled with Nazis”
It doesn’t take a genius to suss this out, but that’s what the poorly educated Russians don’t get. Or they rely on Americans being equally stupid, which is a good bet, honestly.
But for people with a normal amount of media/political literacy? Lol.
True, anything vaguely pro Israel gets deleted and banned.
Wait, defending genocide is seen as a bad thing?
faints in bootlicker
Nuance and facts are seen as a bad thing.
I mean, assuming everyone on an instance has exactly the same views is kind of asinine. You won’t find me pushing that shit. And plenty of others from ml also.
Bruh, I’m just here for the memes. But I can start commenting on political stuff more to even out my instance’s biases if that would help. Honestly haven’t paid much attention to which trolls were from where, but I’ll take your word for it…
I don’t understand the downvotes.
It’s fine, the internet will internet. Unless someone tells me what I’ve done wrong, I’m just gonna assume one downvote gave it the initial velocity for more downvotes. Trying to understand it beyond that will make you go crazy.
removed by mod
Can we not use Fox News, please? They legally argued in court they are strictly entertainment and no reasonable person would believe them. In other words, they are literal propaganda.
But yeah, I hope the smug voters that sat this election out are happy…
That’s a misrepresentation of what they said. I hate Fox News too, but they argued them being called Fox News doesn’t make them exclusively a news company. Most of what they provide on their TV network is entertainment. Written Fox News is actually not the worst thing ever, though still conservative and far from my preference. I also think they still have an hour dedicated to news on the TV network, which is probably worse than having none because it gives cover for the rest of the garbage.
So, do you think that, in this case, the reporting is inaccurate? Or do you just wish they linked a non-Fox version of the same story?
You should default to assuming anything Fox says is untrue without a second source to verify. Because legally they can just say whatever they want and aren’t beholden to any type of journalistic standards because they aren’t news.
They have no more credibility than a random social media user.
Sure, okay, look at the source with skepticism - I certainly do. It just doesn’t make sense to not engage critically with the source. And, in this case, this story seems to be completely factual. Trump does intend to expand arms supply to Israel and ease restrictions. So, disbelieving the story in this case would not have brought you to the correct conclusion.
I guess “default to assuming it’s untrue” wasn’t how I should’ve put it.
If they told me the sky was blue, I wouldn’t say they’re wrong but I’d probably still look up just to be sure.
For sure. I totally agree!
Where my “Democrats are evil genocide people” posters now?
Russians don’t need to make them anymore.
I’m right here. Democrats are still evil for supporting a genocide, and your “lesser of two evils” logic continues to make us more evil.
What do you think of the 30 days the Democrats gave Israel to improve the humanitarian situation by measurable metrics? Israel failed every metric, but the Democratic administration ignores the results and continues to ship weapons to the genocidal regime.
What do you think of the dozens of international doctors who have been to Gaza saying they saw children with single gunshot wounds to the head almost everyday? Reports are widespread that israeli snipers are intentionally killing 100s of children each month.
What do think of Israels recent use of small arms drones? After an American/Israeli bomb destroys a civilian building, a dozen small drones swarm the area. These drones fire small cube-shaped projectiles with the force to pierce skin and break bones, using AI to target any human in the designated area. They are deadly accurate and fast, firing 3 at the head, 3 at the chest, and 3 at the groin. Doctors say these projectiles are especially hard to fish out of the bodies of the child victims as they rarely exit the body, instead they bounce around causing more internal damage.
Suggesting that the people upset about an ongoing genocide are just going to forget about it due to electoral politics is disgusting, and you should feel ashamed.
Hear hear.
People ignore that Biden’s policy was simply indefensible. He fought his own party, he fought his advisors and the media and he STILL lost the election. There’s no longer a need to carry water for him.
It still applies? Just because the Republicans are exponentially worse doesn’t mean the democrats weren’t supporting genocide too.
No, it doesn’t apply at all.
The point of the anti-Dem posts was to get people to not vote Dem when objectively allowing a trump win was worse.
You’re suggesting actively supporting worse is better.
That’s fucked up.
I’m not at all suggesting supporting worse is better and I have no clue how you came to that conclusion. Allowing a Trump win was absolutely worse and I agree it would have been better for everyone to suck it up and vote blue.
That being said its incredibly fucked up to pretend the democrats are completely innocent which is just blatantly not true. They are better by comparison, but definitely not innocent and still supportive of genocide.
I’m not talking about the posts, I’m talking about you guys trying to sweep shit under the rug. It doesn’t work like that.
There is no “you guys trying to sweep shit under the rug”. It doesn’t work like what you’re saying. Nobody is pretending the democrats are innocent. That’s fucked up. Nobody is.
There are people that realize that the current policy sucks, but the alternative is so much worse.
That is all.
Nope. The point was to pressure Biden to listen to his advisors and do the moral and correct and even politically popular thing and he refused.
To answer your question: It does not still apply.
deleted by creator
the blue maga can’t see anything with their tongue so up dnc cronies.
Boy those pro-Palestine folks that didn’t vote for Kamala to protest her stance on the genocide sure did own the Democrats. I’m sure they’re super happy about helping get Trump back in office and aren’t at all upset about the leopards gnawing off their entire heads.
deleted by creator
shit is horrible now
If you don’t think it can get worse, you’re a fool.
It will get worse with no policy change. It is an ongoing genocide with unconditional US support.
It’s gratifying to know you don’t mind recognition for being literally too stupid to vote.
Haha! So bad was so bad that picking worse was better? Good going there!
Biden put pressure on Israel several times and achieved temporary ceasefires and more humanitarian aid. Rafah would have been stormed months earlier without US intervention.
The headline is wrong but still congrats to you morons for enabling Trump. He is clearly a friend of the Palestinians and not Bibi’s buddy.
Usually abstinence prevents idiots from entering the gene pool; this time it may help get rid of some if Trump gets his way. Great work!
I am happy that Democratic voters did not learn that they can support genocide and still win elections.
If you tolerated genocide, you are the kind of voter that allows them to get away with these things. This enabled the current genocide - they expected you to fall in line znd it sounds like you did what you were told. It will also enable the rightward swings the party always wants to take in the interests of capital.
It would be better if you focused on becoming politically informed and worked against these forces rather than giving them legitimacy.
I am happy that Democratic voters did not learn that they can support genocide and still win elections.
Unlike every other time we’ve supported the ongoing Israeli genocide and still won elections.
Good thing the anti-genocide party w-
Oh, what’s that?
The message sent is actually “More genocide is a winning position to the electorate”?
Huh. Almost like this was a stupid idea from the start by privileged types who won’t suffer the consequences of their actions.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
They’re angry and looking for an easy scapegoat. Even though it’s obviously the wrong one. We all knew Trump was worse, which is why Mehdi Hasan and many others were pleading with Biden to please change course because he was destroying his re-election by his own hand. Biden overruled his advisors and the state department and pressed forward on an unpopular policy in hopes he could get republicans to vote for him and it failed. He undermined his own foreign policy and ruined his own career.
Most likely what happened was inflation and a whole lotta price gouging, and people think Biden was to blame. The same people seem to think that donvict has a magic wand.
It’s exactly this.
Trump promised easy solutions to the problems caused by the right, and by corporate oligarchs. They went along with it, and voted for him. They’re now in for a wild ride.
Yep. This is truly going to be the finding out stage for them, except, unfortunately, all of us are going to pay the price for their stupidity.
My wishful hope is that because some of the effects (i.e. prices after blanket tariffs) will be so demonstrably bad for their wellbeing, and will appear much quicker, rather than being delayed (i.e. inflation) that they will actually notice that their own side did something bad, and maybe the more moderate, single-issue voters (primarily those on the economy) will wise up and vote against them in 2028.
If we even have an election in 2028, that is.
it was all about the eggs.
What funny is, i never heard in news about democrats impose any restriction on israel weapon donation.
You see it is like the media reporting “hamas want a deal” even when hamas october 7 plan was aim at getting a deal to swap prisoner, agreed to Biden deal in July but then the US backtracked their statement.
i went to hamas website and the statement was “Trump should listen to what the American people want”
I believe all these post are by Zionist to create a division in supporting ending the massacres.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb? Instead of pointing their fingers at millions of trump voters, they are pointing it at people with empathy for having anti-genocider stance.
It’s because of do-gooder derogotation, and generally not caring about winning or learning from mistakes so long as they can save face and protect their egos.
Do-gooder derogation is a phenomenon where a person’s morally motivated behavior leads to them being perceived negatively by others.
One possible reason for do-gooder derogation is ‘anticipated moral reproach’. This describes a threat to one’s moral standing and to their sense of self-worth.
Research suggests that since people are highly sensitive to any criticism or challenge to their morals, they are more likely to put down the source of this ‘threat’.
It feels like they are just interested in finding a scapegoat to blame rather than asking the real questions, why did so many people voted for trump? Did kamala, despite having more funding, failed to convey her plan? What happened and why it happened and how can it be avoided?
You answered these questions in your very first line.
Why are americans so fuckin dumb?
What restrictions?
Currently, U.S. restrictions include an embargo on a certain weapons shipment and limitations on various combat-related equipment,
Read the article?
Implying that answers any questions?
only the ones that were asked
It really doesn’t. Especially when Biden already saying they aren’t continuing any…
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-aid-entering-israel-us-deadline-rcna176737
removed by mod
What restrictions?
You’re not a very intelligent person are you?
deleted by creator
Time for the 2nd stage of FAaFO for all those that fucked around.
No both sides were not equally bad choices for trying to stop the slaughter of non-combatants.
Non-combatants have been getting slaughtered none stop for over a year now with the help of the Biden/Harris admin.
If they were the better choice they could have demonstrated that, with actions not words.
Bidens 30 day deadline came and went and nothing changed because Biden doesn’t care about innocent life and the dem leadership are all in the pocket of aipac https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/11/biden-israel-palestine-gaza-aid-30-day-warnings-blinken-toothless/
Not going to debate what Biden (since as VP Harris has no actual power to do anything) has done or not done nor your opinions of what he’s done or not done. I do take issue that you think he doesn’t care, at a human level I just don’t think that’s true. What he’s done to express that humanity given geopolitical realities is the real issue.
But anyone who actually thinks Trump cares at all about innocent life, or anyone’s life but his own, or cares about the legacy he leaves behind may find themselves rethinking that opinion in the coming year.
Now that the election is over, I truly do hope something good gets done. We of course won’t know what Harris could have accomplished, but we’ll certainly know if Trump tries and if he succeeds. Keeping fingers crossed.
ETA: I’ll just drop this here https://www.reuters.com/world/us/muslims-who-voted-trump-upset-by-his-pro-israel-cabinet-picks-2024-11-15/
I do take issue that you think he doesn’t care, at a human level I just don’t think that’s true.
How would you have any read on his personal feelings at all? And why would you care that they’re being besmirched? His actions are what matter to the world and the only path by which any of us has to judge him.
You’re right I have no more intimate knowledge of his internal feelings than you do. I have however seen enough humanity in him to believe he has more empathy than Trump who has a very well documented history of narcissism bordering on psychopathy.
As for my “care” of his humanity being besmirched, I don’t actually. My issue was with your questionable assertion that he doesn’t care and the implication that maybe (but maybe not) you actually think Trump cares more.
As for his actions as the president of the united states, who has the full weight of international geopolitics, national politics, and an election to consider, I’d say the job is no where near as simple as you’d like it to seem and as much as I hate (or don’t hate but am resigned) to admit it, there is a limit to what the United States can actually do to make a difference in Gaza that might not have other undesirable results.
First, I’m not the guy you were replying to.
Second, there may be a limit to what the United States can do in Gaza, but we know for sure Biden didn’t ever even try to reach it. It’s a much more strained interpretation to believe a highly empathic person cared deeply about the harm he was causing and did practically nothing to reduce it than to believe someone who has spent their entire life pursuing greater personal power, including multiple times where he supported wars in the Middle East, might be a bit of a sociopath. Making the former work requires inventing these unobservable stresses and reasons to explain why a seemingly immoral response is in fact secretly moral, while the latter lines up with our general understanding of people at the highest levels of power and the plain observations. The morality of a genocide is not complex.
Didn’t say what was or was not moral or the complexity of genocide. I said that diplomacy is much more complex than either side wants to admit when they are emotionally invested (for very good reasons!) in painting the other side of the argument as heartless / savage / inhuman.
Regardless, my central premise hasn’t changed: I hope the whole situation can be brought to a peaceful conclusion as fast as possible with a framework for lasting peace. BUT, I don’t think Trump is the one to make it happen, I don’t even think the US can actually make it happen, and I worry there are a lot of US voters who will suddenly be realizing the Leopard actually ate THEIR face. But hey, maybe Huckabee and Stefanik will decide the Palestinians are real and care about them more than Biden or Harris and Trump won’t lift all military restrictions on Israel on the 1st day in office like the referenced article [shrug] I actually do hope so, but I obviously am not holding my breath.
removed by mod
It is possible for two things to be true at the same time. Sure Kamala might have lost for the reasons you suggest. And it can also be true that another group is about to Find Out what Trump is going to do. Just the last few days alone are giving a lot of evidence that the Palestinian people are not going to be better off with Trump in office.
As for it not being strategic, well, that depends if you think the strategy was ONLY to win the election as opposed to trying to do what he thought best in a horrific and complex situation; and ONLY if you think there was an alternative course of action that would have actually won the election.
I’m not sure why folks are only hearing, or responding to, the coulda/woulda/shoulda side of the conversation. A side for which I haven’t really disagreed with in spirit, namely yes Biden/Harris surely knew there were electoral consequences to their actions, among other much sadder consequences, but you continue to ignore the actual topic of conversation … What the future holds.
Okay I can take a guess why [shrug] but such is life. Feel free to have one more reply, I’m done beating a dead leopard.
Did anyone tell the Palestinians that this would have been the same and to not worry? We had brave, brave people who sat on their hands and did nothing in their name, so I hope they’re grateful for their “sacrifice.”
They were braver than that, friend! They took to the internet in droves, and in every comment thread they showed everyone how principled they were, commenting “I ReFUsE to VoTE 4 GENOCIDE!!!”, spreading their message to either vote 3rd party or don’t vote at all. They worked hard AF to spread their apathy far and wide!
This type of person doesn’t give a fuck about actual Palestinians. It’s just a way to make themselves seem virtuos and ideologically pure.
That they did. I’m sure Netanyahu is grateful.
The more common correlary was to sit on one’s hands and provide consent for genocide or to try to vote shame on support of genocidal candidates.
Though I think you know that those who stand with Palestine tend to be more politically active than your typical Democratic voter. I know I don’t see your type in the streets or running education programs or building connections to support Palestinians directly.
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn’t see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community, I’m afraid I didn’t see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of “not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe” which, you know, kind of got us here.
But perhaps it’s scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I’m unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn’t raise a bitch.
Don’t worry, we’ll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
Oh my, my type? Goodness, you know, I didn’t see your type either now that I think about it! When I went to protests and meetings in my community
Speaking about this as if they are over and not something ongoing says a lot. I’m leaning towards this just being a lie.
, I’m afraid I didn’t see you there, I only saw people who we trying to actually help people, you know, the ones that knew they were between and rock and a hard place, but actually tried to not hand the government over to a blood thirsty racist, while making sure the community was informed in what steps to take should he win and are now continuing to rally and make their voices heard instead of “not VoTiNg fOr GeNoCiDe” which, you know, kind of got us here.
I have never seen a pro-Palestinian protest with that message. That just sounds like you projecting your armchair liberal takes onto other people.
The people who organize pro-Palestinian protests are socialists and allied Palestinian groups, occasionally JVP. And while JVP is milquetoast and weak, even they aren’t that mealy-mouthed.
But perhaps it’s scary to stand for a belief off of the internet, but I’m unfamiliar with the feeling because my mom didn’t raise a removed.
I wonder what slur you used while calling yourseld a good person.
Don’t worry, we’ll handle it, sport. You just stay safe inside, okay? ♥️
It id also telling that this is the only part of my comment that you replied to.
What slur? Now you really have loss me. People in my community were realistic about what we could get done on 11/5. We didn’t call anyone a slur, we’re not Republicans. Naive? Foolish? Maybe, but what slur? I’m not calling myself a “Good” person, but I’m am calling myself a politically involved and empathetic beyond what is comfortable for me. I’m sure you also feel like you’re a good person, and maybe you are, I only know you from this interaction. But I’m at peace with what I did on 11/5 because I didn’t stop working.
I’m fine being down voted knowing that I did and will continue to do what I can. Just like I’m sure you’re fine feeling that you did and/or are doing the same.
I’m sorry, I’m just so angry that we are in this position, and that it’s even worse. It’s very, very frustrating (though I’m sure it’s the same for you).
Still not sure why you think we’d be walking around calling people slurs though 👀
Edit: Whoops, their account is gone I think? Sorry. I swear I didn’t report. 🙏🏾
But you clearly used a slur that was removed
Ah! It was the word “b*tch.” I thought he was saying a racial slur. Didn’t even notice 😂
What restrictions?, the article doesnt mention any, Bidens ultimatum came and went with no action.
Both sides were for unconditional aid to Israel, kamala may have added some laments about loss of life but she repeatedly said restrictions on military were off the table. Until someone can point to me a concrete policy that kamala had in her platform that was different from trump then yeah both sides are equally bad on this issue. Trump is worse on a lot of others but to a Palestinian they are both bad.
The article has a vague statement trying to make it sound like there were lots of restrictions, but I think it’s just the 2000 lb. bombs, and maybe some sort of guidance system (IIRC). Because it’s a fucking Fox News article for some reason.
Currently, U.S. restrictions include an embargo on a certain weapons shipment and limitations on various combat-related equipment, even if they do not involve explosive ordnance.
Allowing them is definitely more bad, but it’s going from like 95% of maximum complicity to 100%.
The only restrictions are stuff we don’t give to anyone. By the end of Trump’s term I will not be surprised if Israel has an Ohio class submarine.
We’ll see how many shipments of white phosphorus get sent now.
what a tool
Me trying to find the restrictions in question just like me trying to find Biden’s red line and also just like me trying to find Blinken’s endzone and also me trying to find the consequences of Israel’s actions for the past 13 months.
What a joke lol
This comment has some real manic desperation energy. Are you ok?
Posting memes in response to news like this… You’re showing everyone your ass, moron.
Take a breath, and maybe do some introspection.
I see that you have made no such comments towards the memers in this thread trying to crap on those who won’t vote for genocide.
I know this is a disgusting thought but, assuming there are ever free elections in the United States again, Gaza won’t be an issue in 2028. Palestine will just be a memory.
It’s already a memory for plenty. All the cool kids are upset over a squirrel killed in New York
The outrage is so selective. Democrats kill peanut, infringing on some guys right to have wild animals but you don’t hear a peep about the GOP sheriff who arrested a lady because her kid walked to the store. She is facing a year in prison.
I hear about that woman getting jail time for that on the regular, I don’t know what you are talking about, I see it one headlines from mainstream sources too.
Also, people can be mad about multiple things at once
I’m not talking about the news, I’m talking about the people who manufacture outrage about peanut being silent about the blatant trampling of this families liberties because it doesn’t advance a narrative that it’s all the democrats fault.
We operate in different circles then. I haven’t seen the squirrel in days now, and I am still getting people discussing the woman getting arrested.
They’ll just move on to Iran
Perhaps, but Iran has oil and a closer relationship with Russia.
Oh for sure. I wonder how many of the 5.5M they started with are even left.
Wait, the ~14,000 dead children complied with American restrictions? The damaging or destruction of over 80% of all structures in Gaza was within restrictions? Interesting. It’s honestly going to be tough for the victims of genocide to tell the difference. It actually may benefit Israel’s victims since America is likely to massively lose influence in the world with the clown car pulling into Washington. Many nations who likely want to push back against the genocide are under huge American pressure to stay silent and complicit, hopefully as America loses influence that could change.
Not saying that will occur, just an opinion.
There aren’t any restrictions, unless they mean the stuff we don’t give to anyone, not even NATO.
All Netanyahu needs is a half dozen F-22s to finally accurately target Hamas!
