Edit: Image description for Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
That’s an instance ban. Instance bans automatically issue community bans for local communities the user has been active in.
Ada, drag is sorry for sharing the screenshots. Drag didn’t think they were anything serious. Drag won’t share any screenshots without permission again.
Sharing DMs is a dick move.
Not if it is exposing admin/mod abuse.
good thing it wasn’t (source: i was the third party recipient of those shared DMs; they were fully irrelevant to admin/mod action, abusive or otherwise)
it absolutely is.
How so? On Lemmy, at least, they are absolutely not private. It is just a way for two users to communicate without cluttering up a thread or something. Not a way to communicate in secret.
EDIT: Oh, I missed the joke. DM = Dick Move. Woosh
It’s private in the sense that the DMs were made between 2 people. They are public in the sense that the admins of the instance(s) can read the DMs. Just like admins of any server can read anything that’s not encrypted at source.
so… only admins can read the mail but the counterparty can’t disclose their own mail?
wtf sort of logic does this rely on
No. Admins can read any mail. And everyone has access to their own mail?! And I mean everyone can disclose anything in their posession. It’s just not allowed and unethical. Though in most cases you’re allowed to publish what you wrote yourself. You just may not publish other people’s secrets or info publicly.
Almost everything you said isn’t true. Point to the rule that says someone can’t disclose a DM they were part of? Unethical? Sure.
And I mean everyone can disclose anything in their posession.
It’s just not allowed
Make up your mind.
Also Drag is a troll. Has suggested that several people commit suicide. Drag doesn’t get a pass. Drag is a piece of shit. Don’t be Drag.
Killing it with this one…
Also, drag didn’t feel genuine and that’s a deal breaker for me
You’re a shitposter, and I’ve told you I disagree with you more often than I agree. But fuck me, Drag is verifiably a piece of shit. When you don’t, and i say this with love, have your head up your ass…I’ll have your back.
I’m being catty. Hoping you vibe with the teasing. Work drinks, last joke before bed. Hope I nailed it… Just like I nailed your mum!
OK, I’ll stop for real.
Not sure where you live, and I don’t know much about US law, but for me, it’s §203 and §206 StGB. Get’s you either fined, or up to a maximum of 1 or 5 years in jail. And especially §206 is super clear and specifically mentions electronic letters. I can assure you, I’m 100% correct on that.
It depends on the state. My state is a one party state, meaning any person that is party to a private conversation can legally reveal everything in it to the public.
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html
If this is an accurate translation of the laws, 203 is about doctors, lawyers, government officials, etc. sharing priveledged information they had access to because of their jobs and 206 only applies to owners/employees of telecommunications or delivery services.
Edit: and to go one step further, Section 201: Violation of Privacy of Spoken Word means you can’t record phone calls without everyone’s permission, but Section 202: Violation of Privacy of Correspondence is about opening other people’s letters.
I’m from Canada and live in the UK. You’re allowed to, barring some very specific circumstances, record or repeat any conversation you are party to. If you were posting a DM convo that your friend was having, taking pictures of their screen while they were out of the room and then putting it online. You’re fucked. If you are an active participant of a conversation/DM chain then as party to said communication you have the legal right to tell anyone, record it for reporting to the news, or the cops, or your gf.
Not exactly something that requires top secret classification, yeah?
since the text is too small to be readable, nobody can tell; but in any case, privacy matters regardless of the classification. If drag cared they could’ve asked Ada beforehand if it would be okay.
But I guess courtesy is a one-way to drag.
Drag is sorry to Ada for sharing the screenshot of her saying she’d talk to spujb. Drag won’t do it again.
Nah. It doesn’t fucking matter.
Already said it in !main@lemmy.blahaj.zone but I’ll say it again so others can see it here.
It seems drag was banned from the site for sharing people’s DMs, though I’m sure that’s not the whole story, drag has a history of being banned for way more than just the thing on the label. Looking at the comments on drag’s home instance where it hasn’t been removed, it seems drag was sharing those DMs in attempt to libel Ada for not taking the action drag wanted. That’s on top of the fact that she did not give drag permission to share them. It’s an asshole move for sure, and I have to say if I were in Ada’s shoes I’d do the same.
Ada was also already wary of drag after the respecting pronouns rule announcement, because a number of blahaj users rightfully pointed out drag is still likely a troll. Fluff around and find out basically.
It ultimately isn’t surprising. Drag has been very sus from the beginning, drag exhibited a lot of behaviors that made me leery. Though at the time I didn’t say anything since it was only a hunch and most people were just voicing transphobic complaints about pronouns.
What made drag feel suspicious?
Either you have issues with reading comprehension or you are an alt of drag. When people say someone is being sus or has been sus they generally mean they as a person are behaving in ways that make others suspicious.
deleted by creator
And you deleted your comment immediately… that doesn’t make you look sus at all /s
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone I think I found one of drag’s alts.
I believe transparency is desirable and the single party consent rule in regards to private conversations should be the primary accepted doctrine here outside of any communique that is sexual/private and includes nudes and or personal data and could constitute doxxing.
That’s your opinion, but many people do not agree with you. I myself would be pissed if you shared our DM convo without asking me first, or even letting me know you were going to. I can see why Ada would and why she did what she did, it’s disrespectful and adversarial.
If its just a friendly convo yeah one parry would def be a dick to share that text dialogue but if you’re involved in a contentious dispute you should just assume your chat is going to be used against you. Single party consent is what allows us to put police and corporations in their place when they are doing shady shit being opposed to it just makes you look like you have something to hide. I know drag is a troll but banning him for posting dm screenshots is just shitty. And then pointing fingers as to who started what and who deserves what after the fact is also shitty. But what evs
Interesting that you say that
Single party consent, as I myself put my foot in yesterday, is by far not the norm.
Drag didn’t know Ada didn’t message spujb. Drag was making it clear to spujb and anyone reading the thread that drag wasn’t lying. Drag is sorry to Ada and won’t do it again. Drag tried to tell her earlier today, but drag couldn’t
Ironic considering how much flack blahaj got for defending that user.
I think Blåhaj handled this person well over all. Even if Drag wad just 100% troll, drag wasn’t being fed in Blåhaj and had to go elsewhere. But also there was always the chance that drag is just someone on a journey or with things to sort out. Some people have completely given up on being any gender and treat it like a joke in an almost nihilistic way. But clearly there’s a line between that and an actual troll.
Either way, I wouldn’t say that it’s standard heterosexual cisgender behaviour to go as far as Drag did just for the lulz. So maybe one of these days, Drag will have an awakening and remember how no one in the community either fed drag or shunned drag when drag was confused and behaving badly.
If Drag was trolling, the troll was exposing how shallow non-binary acceptance is for your average “progressive.”
“Not feeding the troll” in that case is treating their request with a minimal level of respect, and that was simply too much inconvenience for 90% of Lemmy.world and a very potent reminder of why trans and enby folks need their own spaces.
Including some people in this thread with an axe to grind and no self awareness to stop it.
I personally don’t think they were a troll but I am also not sure I agree with banning people for not remembering or wanting to use their unusual pronouns.
But I am not well-educated on the topic of neopronouns so if someone feels like educating me or suggesting some readings I am open to it.
No one was banned for not rembering drags pronouns or for accidentally getting them wrong.
People were banned for dismissing the validity of neopronouns or for deliberately and repeatedly getting pronouns wrong.
Was it dismissing or just not understanding? To be honest my recollection is a bit fuzzy.
I’m a little afraid to be having this conversation lest I be accused of prejudice against trans or nonbinary folks, a prejudice I try my best to fight against. But I don’t even understand the connection there since we already have well-established systems of pronouns for such people.
Personally, I truly can’t fathom why neopronouns are necessary and while I don’t want to disrespect anyone, they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them… especially when they are implicitly linked to having sex with non-human mythological creatures.
But maybe I am just ignorant. Drag was my first introduction to this concept. I’d like to learn more about this.
Was it dismissing or just not understanding?
Some folk require understanding before they offer acceptance. Those folk will frame it as “just not understanding”. I frame that as lack of acceptance. Acceptance isn’t contingent on understanding. You or I not understanding an aspect of someone elses identity has nothing to do with the validity of their identity.
If you wish to ask someone questions about their pronouns and identity, you’re welcome to do so, but remember they don’t owe you an answer, and whether they offer you an answer or not, and whether you understand their perspective or not, either way, gatekeeping and invalidating their identity is not on.
they are so uncomfortable to use that it just makes me not want to address someone who uses them
That was the other option I offered folk. If someone has stated their pronouns, either use them, or if you can’t bring yourself to use them, don’t engage with the person.
If the person is trolling, report them. But even if they’re trolling, the above statement still stands. Respect their pronouns or don’t engage with them as you report them.
How can one accept or reject a thing without understanding what it is they are accepting? Is not immediately changing the way one speaks without a reason or even an explicit request equivalent to denying someone’s identity? I don’t think my discomfort with neopronouns is because I reject anyone’s identity. I don’t even understand what such a person’s identity is. Unlike established pronouns, neopronouns do not have any meaning at all to me because I’ve never heard them before and no one has defined them. What do they signify? I assume something different for each one, so what is it? I’ve always been careful with my language, so using words without a clear understanding of their meaning makes me uncomfortable.
Language is a very meaningful topic for people. Both for the speaker and the spoken to. We have all been acculturated to speak in a certain way, and to understand the meanings of such speech in a certain way. I don’t think asking people to change the way they speak is as trivial as you seem to imply. Nor is declining to change the way one speaks the same as saying “I reject your identity”, unless such a meaning is intended.
And of course I understand that someone may not want to have this (or any) conversation. But I also feel that you can’t expect people to change without them understanding why they need to change. Most people hate change, it’s just human nature. So if you choose not to educate people, you’ll have to accept that they remain ignorant until such time as someone takes on that burden.
I’m trans. Cis people literally can never truly understand my experience or why the things that are important to me are important. Acceptance can’t be contingent on understanding they can never have.
Neopronouns are the same. You can work on your own understanding to reduce your discomfort but your discomfort should be your problem, not something you get to force on to others
I think the broader issue is, you say you’re uncomfortable saying something. And at the same time other people say the want to be addressed like that. And, now what? I mean those might all be valid concerns/feelings/whatever. But we can’t have it both ways. So what do we do to solve this? You need to find some agreement on how to address someone, or silence is the other option.
Or, do what my instance did, and ban him for being a transphobic troll that harasses people, which is the only sensible action.
Drag does not use he/him.
Absolute bullshit. I called drag out and ONLY drag. I made no mention of neopronouns or even said anything remotely dismissive of pronouns as I am a huge supporter of all of it.
Yet I was banned because I called drag a shit tier troll that was making a mockery of the trans community.
Your comments were removed. You aren’t instance banned
Community banned as I recall. And even removing the comments because I called them a troll and accused them of mocking the trans community was bullshit in light of the recent acknowledgment that they are- in fact, a troll.
They went to where they knew they could take advantage of the rules that protect the trans community- and then weaponized it to create drama and get shit removed.
I’m an instance admin. I don’t issue community bans. I issue instance bans. If someone community banned you, it wasn’t me.
That last part is transphobic. No trans person represents the trans community and setting higher standards for trans people than cis people is transphobic. You can call them out for being a troll, but using someone’s gender identity in an insult is always transphobic.
DragonRider’s pronouns are “Drag” not “they”, just because someone is a dick doesn’t mean you don’t respect pronouns. Gender isn’t a reward for good behavior.
You’re right. I honestly wasn’t even thinking. Going to edit my comment now.
drag has stated that drag accepts they/them as well.
Dragonfucker isn’t a gender
Drag is just someone with an unusual gender, bot has no qualms with that. Perhaps you should use Tumblr if you wanna see more people with out-there gender identities, the trans Tumblr community is part of the reason bot still uses that site
yay drone rights and such, am i rite?
Can you fill in the backstory? I missed this incident or possibly multiple incidents.
I can’t remember the exact details but I believe at least a few people were banned for suggesting that drag was a troll and refusing to use their preferred neopronouns.
People weren’t banned for criticizing them, they were banned for encouraging others to misgender people if they don’t like them. I don’t think anyone was banned for not using “personal” neo pronouns.
And drag was banned from BZ for telling people to KYS, then they went and made a new account on a different instance and have continued pissing people off, now the new acount is being banned from stuff because they’ve continued the kind of behavior that got them banned in the first place.
I got most if not all of my comments on that post removed because i called them a troll that made a mockery of the trans community.
And now they banned the troll.
I never saw much that made me think there was trolling going on but I won’t pretend to know anything for sure.
You got your comments removed for misgendering. Your mod log history is right there
I got comments removed because you protected a known troll. I didn’t misgender anyone. I called out a troll for making a mockery of the trans community.
And my modlog history shows nothing but me putting a shit tier drama-craving troll in their place.
That you can’t understand nuance enough to know the difference isn’t my fucking problem.
I really strongly suspect that in the middle of your argument with drag, you used pronouns in a way that didn’t match how drag asks you to use them, and that it was this that got your comments removed.
I think Ada is very consistent that calling someone a troll is allowed, but not using their pronouns correctly whilst doing so isn’t.
Of course when they ban him it’s not for being a transphobic piece of shit, but instead for sharing DMs. Sure, being a troll and using the trans community as a cudgel to harass people is fine, but sharing private communication? Well, that’s a step too far.
Blahaj is a joke.
Don’t forget flooding people’s DMs with porn. Drag loves doing that too.
Hey, it’s not sexual harassment, and you’re transphobic for saying calling out his bad behavior! Also, he’s just being quirky when he suggested people kill themselves!
Forgot the /s or /j there’s people who might take you seriously. Including dragonfucker.
You’re not wrong. They already have alts in the comments.
Yup, I’ve already seen a few. Including their main account.
Wow don’t share your DMs with us! Ban Snowpix for revealing the content of DMs.
Or creating hateful communities to personally harass and target you. It’s already happened to me twice.
No drag doesn’t. Drag has never done that.
???
Please don’t he/him drag.
Well said.
clown down.
legit you cannot convince me this wasn’t trolling, and the fact so many people haven’t been able to tell, for so long, is deeply funny but also somewhat depressing. I blocked them almost as soon as I encountered them. It reeks of bait turned up to 11, like an edgy 16 year old just heard about the concept of making your own pronouns and went “ok how can I make this as stupid as humanly possible to fuck with people?”.
I think with regards to the whole pronouns thing, just because they are a troll doesn’t mean you should ignore their pronoun preference, as it sets a dangerous precedent for when its right or not to do so.
You haven’t wandered the Fediverse enough, them. By the way, please just respect people’s pronouns, we may never know.
Yeah, it definitely felt like it, considering the amount of silly
Careful not to mythologize the characters of people who have just hurt others.
With 100+ comments already this is probably a message delivered too late, but if you are reading this be aware that comments here that digress away from simply keeping history into ogling and ridiculing serve only to feed the needs of a user who already has alt accounts drifting in as we speak.
I’m really amazed how they don’t try very hard to conceal their alts as alts. Change what they refer to themselves as in the third person, and everything else is exactly the same. Low effort.
Drag can’t control how drag’s friends talk. If drag were writing their posts for them, drag would be a lot more careful. Unfortunately, drag doesn’t use disguised alts, and drag’s friends write their own comments themselves. And drag is friends with other queer neurodivergent people who have personalities and values similar to drag’s.
If that is actually true, then I apologise for the assumption.
If you want to get to know someone, the best way is to treat them like a person. And drag would think getting to know somebody is the best way to find out who they are; drag, or someone else. Drag doesn’t think anybody has actually tried to find the truth.
Lemmy is supicious that drag’s friends don’t use Lemmy very often, and mostly just comment whenever drag is upset. Would you want to use Lemmy if your main experience with it was your friend crying because someone misgendered them? When you think of drag’s friends as people, their actions make a lot more sense.
I’m sorry Drag. I have seen enough of the person you show to the community not to want to get to know you. If you’re hurt that’s fine, and you have a right to express that. That right doesn’t extend to telling people to commit suicide. I have no interest in getting to know you further, or the friends/alts (whichever, I’m not currently arguing that point) who support you after having done so repeatedly. A real friend would call someone out for that behavior.
Regardless, I’m not interested in further interaction between us. Enjoy your day.Suicide?
Finally, the anti-trans troll falls out of favor.
Why is that troll not banned from ALL of lemmy? I don’t get it.
Oh, and for the record; this post and all the comments in it including mine- are exactly why they do what they do.
They feed on the drama. Ban them, and this ends.
That’s effectively impossible as a part of the nature of the fediverse. You could try banning alts on site but it’s really not that hard to have a dozen alts waiting across host of instances.
And when those alts call themselves “drag” what do you think will happen?
You’d have to distinguish drag from others using drag neopronouns for fun and or profit. Drag thinks this would be fun for a while, if only to prove drags point dragself.
Did they ever use dragself? I bet they did. We’ll never know now.
Pretty sure they did use “dragself” a few times. Can’t bother to dig up the comments
This makes my head hurt.
They usually don’t. Like with Newbuild, they change who they refer to themselves in 3rd person. But an account saying they are friends with Drag, speaking exactly like Drag, but referring to themselves as, in this case, Bot… Almost zero effort to conceal the alt as an alt.
Mods will ban them, they will make a new account and carry on.
Bans only work for normal people.
Correction bans only work for people who respect the paradigm of “not being allowed to sign up again when banned” and “not being allowed to lie on registration application” if it’s present on the server.
Normal people don’t get permabanned from servers left, right, and center.
Reeks of big brother, but I wonder if there’s a way to device ban.
If you could force users to use an app like Reddit does you could get device data. Though short of that not really. Browser fingerprinting and tracking cookie placement (What Reddit uses in their web session) is described that way by lay people (and people trying to fear monger or dissuade ban evasion) but Browsers like Tor or Mullvad defeat that very easily by not saving the data and randomizing the fingerprinting data.
Most Lemmy users wouldn’t use a locked down black box app similar to the Reddit app though. It would be a red flag for many of them. An instance which requires that would not be popular.
That tracks. And is a good thing actually. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Appreciate it!
I guarantee he’s very attached to the drama he has caused using the “drag” account. Staring all over with another one will be a pain in the ass.
Image description for my fellow Brits:
Dragon Rider (drag) being banned from the following communities for sharing DMs:
Do you think it would be helpful if I added this to the description?
Maybe, I wrote this because lemmy.zip geoblocks the UK so I had to use my VPN to see the image.
Drag earned a lot of bans because Drag is a troll. Drag can’t help but suggest that people kill themselves, and then demand people refer to them as Drag, as they identify as a Dragon. When Drag was asked if Drag stands for Dragon, Drag implied the person asking was stupid for not knowing Drag stands for Dragon Rider. Drag also intentionally made numerous posts on .world inciting violence against government officials and wealthy Dutch citizens. Drag claimed the posts were an experiment testing .world’s admins’ dedication to Dutch law vis-a-vis Luigi /incitement to violence. And finally. Drag refers to Drag in the third person. Drag is a troll. Fuck Drag.
I can see it, has the image moved?
Demigodrick (zip admin) reached out on matrix to say they were adding pictrs to their geoblock bypass, so now pictures from zip are viewable from the UK.
Getting banned from Blahaj.Zone is easy. Just disagree with the admin on anything.
If by disagree you mean intentionally misgender people then yes
deleted by creator
?
🤣 responded to the wrong comment. Deleting it. Sorry for the confusion.
I blocked them a long time ago
If they follow the rules, they are always welcome in Casual Conversation.
I do not understand the same reasons to judge them that everyone else seems to. They have never seemed antagonistic.
According to “drag,” you’ve already misgendered them four times. They’d report you for this.
They and I had a talk about that. I asked what their neo-pronouns would be if they followed the three basic courtesy rules, and they responded saying I could stick to they/them. They and anyone else are free to correct me if I relapse into he/him.
They also said that they are not a person, but instead, a “dragon rider” which would indicate one who rides dragons. So… Is a dragon’s rider a dragon that rides dragons? A race of non-human things that ride dragons? Neither of these?
Also, take a stroll through their comment history. They are very inconsistent over the months since their account was created.
It’s almost as if they were making it up as they went along.
Inconsistent with their gender/pronouns or inconsistent with who they are?
To be honest, when I first met them, my first impression was they might be otherkin, though I didn’t have those exact words to say.
Inconsistent with their trolling.
Is there a link describing “the three basic courtesy rules” that doesn’t go to Xitter? I can’t access that site (and wouldn’t want to even if I could, tbh.)
I tried searching for that phrase online and found generic “etiquette” lists, but without further context I can’t tell if I’m finding the same thing you’re referring to.
Rule 1: The way of referring to oneself should be translatable between mainstream languages. You can’t blame people of other dialects for botching certain words or having no equivalent word. Something there must be accommodated for.
Rule 2: It should be six letters or shorter. It would be misusage if problems were caused because it was longer, such as creating too much bureaucratic stress.
Rule 3: No shock value is involved. I can’t imagine people referring to you as a slur based on your instruction and being indifferent to it.
this is interesting and i think it would be valuable to have discourse about this outside of distasteful characters, thanks for bringing it to attention
my initial thoughts are “what does mainstream mean lol” and “why six letters” and “what about languages that don’t use the roman alphabet”
but i appreciate the stance of respect and pragmatism this seems to come from so that’s nice
The word “mainstream” is used as opposed to oddly specific obstacles. A dialect, like, say, Mandarin is just a fact of life, as opposed to, say, encountering someone who wants you to adapt what you say into Klingon.
“Six letters” is chosen because it matches average nickname length and is a good starter point for compatibility. Letters from most alphabets can be swapped with letters into other alphabets, so that is no issue. As for logographic ones, most Mandarin characters do equal a phrase that would equal six letters.
That’s really weird, because this is what Leni’s comment looks like on drag’s screen:
There are/were some instances of harassment with multiple accounts from them IIRC
How would anyone know it’s them?
Its been a while since I saw the posts, but it was not subtle at all; immediate reactionary posts from the same instance all badmouthing someone drag was arguing with, using the same phrasing and sentence structure drag uses.
Stop tolerating their ridiculous neopronoun. It was an obvious fucking troll. Grow a spine and start calling this fucking bullshit out instead of letting it infect the LGBT communities.
This “condensed” write up by @southernsamurai is, I feel, an excellent argument for why that isn’t true.
If you look through my various comments on this thread, you’ll see that I am…not a fan of Drag. They’re one of, again blah blah blah personal opinion, the worst types of person. Using rules in a safe space for vulnerable people against them, intentionally stirring the pot and garnering ill will across the Fed, some of it inappropriately aimed at the safe space. I’m not sure I believe that they are otherkin as they claim, but I’ll be respectful and call them what they want to be called while I tell them that drag should look dragself in the mirror and treat others with the same respect and decency befitting a fellow sentient that they weaponise the rules to force others to give them or be removed. And if drag cannot bring dragself to treat others well, cannot stop misgendering others, or telling them to KYS, Drag is not worth the piss it would take to put out a fire. But we’re presumably civilised, and I will use the terms drag wants used to refer to drag to politely tell drag to go fuck dragself off somewhere dragr behaviour is welcome. Which is definitely not here.^ pretty much sums it up.
Idk fam, I feel like weird use of language kinda pales in comparison to sexual harassment of other users, and the fact that the former is what most people seem to care about with DragonFucker is kinda concerning.
I didn’t know that that stupid motherfucker sexually harassed anyone. So the former was the only one relevant to my experience.
I think I’m willing to take a stance on, You can have he him, she her, they them, it, or some mixture of those.
Generally I just wouldn’t care however seeing that community bend itself into a pretzel over an obvious troll pretty much cemented my feeling on the subject. At some point you’re no longer being tolerant and are just being gullible.
Coincidences do happen. I got semi-banned from a place once, and a few months afterward, someone joined with a name that was near-identical. It was a real Guy Incognito moment.
These immediate reactionary posts, were they directed at various different people? Drag has been in drama and conflict with a lot of people on Lemmy. So if drag made the posts, it would make sense for them to be directed at all the people drag has had a lot of conflict with: spujb, Flying Squid, Pug Jesus…
Or, was the alt-account harassment all directed at a single user, and all at a time when that user had something to gain from playing the victim? Because if that’s the case, it seems like maybe that particular user is somehow linked to the cause of the harassment.
That user would correct your use of they and them to drag btw.
They gave me permission to use they/them.
well, we have a saying in Germany:
“Tja…”
Why? “Sharing dms” what happened
