While I agree this is a shit thing to do, I am looking forward to the influx of cheap hardware.
Yeah just who exactly out there can you go to, to simply ‘trade in’ a computer? It’s not like a car where you trade in a car for another car.
I don’t really see an awful lot of computer trade-in programs, they aren’t just going to give you a beefy PC with Windows 11 on it for a computer you’ve ran a good 5 or more some odd years with Windows 10.
Isn’t Windows 10 suppose to be the last Windows release? We changed our minds.
Correction: it’s MY last Windows release. I invite it to be yours too.
Cue the people freaking out about ‘ERM well only if it’s an offline machine’ lol
I think the implication is that they will switch to Linux
oh mb, yeah makes sense now
Weird hill to die on perhaps; but I’ll never forgive Microsoft for arbitrarily deciding to not support my Core i7 6700K 4Ghz CPU on Windows 11.
Simply because: I cannot find a single actual technical reason why it wouldn’t be compatible (yes, my mobo also has TPM). It’s even higher specced than many other ‘supported’ chips.
MS apparently just decided I hadn’t spent enough money lately. Well now I won’t - on your products - ever again, while this i7 will continue to run Win 10 for games and Linux for all else.
Gaming is great on Linux nowadays btw. I installed Fedora a few weeks ago and haven’t had a single problem with any of my games - I’m getting better framerates, too.
Any reason you went with fedora? I’ve been partial to fedora for a decade, but last I knew it wasn’t recommended for a daily driver given the upstream fuckery from redhat.
Asking cuz I’m about two weeks from kicking win10 in the dick and moving to alma or something.
I’m actually using Nobara, but it’s not very popular so I just say Fedora in day-to-day conversation. From my understanding, Fedora-based distros play better with Nvidia GPUs.
Best of luck to you my friend. Like I said, fedora was my go-to for years, and I regularly fought against the Nvidia drivers and kept going back to windows.
I’m running AMD now, so I’m hoping my experience is better than it was when I was using nvidia
I’m responding to you, but this is more for others to see since you moved to AMD.
I used Nvidia cards for many years on Linux and only recently switched back to AMD. The main issues I ran into with Nvidia were related to driver updates breaking things rather than things not working in general. So, I eventually found that holding Nvidia drivers to versions that worked without issues was the best bet and only updating them on occasion after they had been out for a bit and the consensus was that they weren’t breaking stuff.
Just to make things easier on others (or myself of the amd drivers have similar issues), how would one go about holding the driver at a specific version?
I’m on a Debian based distro, but it is super simple. To hold a driver, or any package to a version just use “sudo aptitude hold <name or package here>” to undo this at any point just use “sudo aptitude unhold <name or package here>”. If you use the GUI package manager, there is a “Lock Version” option in a menu that does it.
If you’re on a Redhat based distro, Federa et al, I believe the keyword is “versionlock” for yum or dnf, but I would definitely recommend looking at a reference for the command before blinding following me on that one.
Just to make things easier on others (or myself if the AMD drivers have similar issues), how would one go about holding the driver at a specific version?
Everyone should use the most polished, solid and up to date distros. Opensuse and Fedora. There is no fucked up. Fedora is a serious project that Red hat uses to base their distro on. And Opensuse is German engineering. Serious is not even the correct word here, they are state of art distros.
Good to know, thanks! Like I said, I’m going to be diving back into Linux in the near future, so I’ll be looking into the best distro to try.
If you’re into gaming, Bazzite is based on Fedora (SilverBlue, so immutable), and it works amazingly for gaming and everything else.
It was my first experience with anything Fedora after coming from Arch, and I have to say that I’m pleased.
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You’re also describing what happens on Windows. Gaming on PC requires some tinkering and knowledge. If you want to turn a machine on, install a game and play it you’ll buy a gaming console.
Regarding Mumble, Zerotier and XLink Kai, sorry to read that. Hopefully there’ll be something in their docs that help you or other alternatives you can switch to. Deep Rock Galactic can be a bit of a resource hog, but there’s probably a solution for that too. Have you used the latest community recommendations on it’s ProtonDB page? https://www.protondb.com/app/548430?device=pc
Three consecutive replies because of an app I’m testing. Sorry about that.
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Any good step by step explainers nowadays? Been over a decade sinceI set my last Linux machine up for a friend, and have been thinking about trying one for a Jellyfish server.
Knowing that my gaming PC could get a few extra frames might intrruige me into performing the upgrade there too if the jellyfish machine goes well.
Most distros have a great getting started guide.
If you have an Nvidia card, make sure you’re looking at distros with Nvidia support and are using the correct installer version for Nvidia support.
Some great distros to look into with above in mind:
- PopOS
- Ubuntu: Nvidia requires a few additional terminal commands unfortunately.
- Mint
- Fedora
- A handful of others that I’m sure you’ve seen mentioned
Also avoid Arch linux unless you’re ready to dive into the deep end of linux. As much as I thing it’s a great distro, and abstracts away a lot of the difficulties or Arch, Garuda Linux, should probabaly be avoided as well until you’re more comfortable with Linux due to its Arch roots (even if the docs are robust, they dive deep on tech concepts and require tons of requisite knowledge).
Awesome, that’s some great leads especially with a Nvidia card.
I’ll try and pick the easiest one without any grub work, I faintly remember my old school courses and have a faint reminder of hearing about grub. Didn’t sound like something to touch without the knowhow, Ill be careful.
Thanks!
I can help you through a fedora install, I just did it for the first two times myself. If you want to dual boot, it’s easiest to have windows set up first too, so you’re in good shape for that
Might take you up on that in a couple of months if I don’t feel like destroying the old gaming PC hahaha
That’s what’s nice about dual booting! You can add a hard drive and use both! Easy to set up so you can choose to launch windows or Linux when it boots up! Gives you the opportunity to play around and get a feel for it without giving up your tried and tested setup!
I’m in a similar boat. My computer meets all of the other requirements like TPM and whatnot, yet they are arbitrarily deciding that my processor is too old. And for some reason you can walk into your local computer store and buy a laptop with the shittiest processor and other specs possible that somehow runs Windows 11. Just because the processor on the new shitbox was manufactured more recently. Ridiculous.
I have that same issue. My older laptop barely misses the cutoff, even though everything meets the requirements except the cpu. I have a newer laptop with Win11, and the old one runs circles around it. It’s faster and has way more RAM, yet somehow won’t run 11? I’m going to keep it and just run Linux instead. I’ll use the crappy Win11 lappy just for MS office and keeping papers from blowing off my desk.
I’ll use the crappy Win11 lappy just for MS office
LibreOffice works very well. I use it often in a company that uses Office exclusively, and I’ve never had a compatibility issue.
I use power query and so far haven’t found a replacement that works in Linux. Otherwise I would drop MS office altogether.
In the same boat with the same CPU. The beast is running Cyberpunk 2077 fairly well at 1440p with a DLSS/ray tracing card but it can’t run Windows 11 🙄🙄🙄
It boils down the CPU microarchitecture
6700k is 64 bit.
They mean the x86-64-v1, x86-64-v2 stuff https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Microarchitecture_levels
I figured it was related to the hardware architecture, but I’m curious if this is for security reasons (potential exploits that the OS can’t resolve) and/or just a support bandwidth concerns managing 2 OS code bases (on top of the obvious revenue from new licenses).
If the hardware security isn’t the issue, then switching to Linux is a good money saving choice for those that are tech savvy.
I’m trying but the girlfriend refuses. She watches YouTube on the TV and does everything else on her phone; literally only uses the laptop to play The Sims 4 (which her 1080ti can handle just fine), yet she’s convinced that she will need a brand new gaming machine with a 4090/5090 as soon as Microsoft dumps WIn10. She’s afraid that she’ll completely break the OS if she switches to Linux. (Which is plausible, though unlikely.
I’m hoping she’ll change her mind as soon as she realizes just how much more GPUs cost these days, especially mobile ones.
Create a live USB stick and demonstrate it to her, without deleting Windows. Bonus points if you rice the fuck out of it with some kawaii shit for your GF and make Sims 4 work with Wine.
Wine need not apply. That’s old school. Sims 4 works great in proton. Basically just install steam and the rest is handled.
Better yet, install bazzite as your distro, gaming works out of the box.
Proton is based on Wine, when people say Wine in a gaming context, there’s a decent chance they just mean Proton. Also there’s absolutely no need for gaming distros in this situation, gaming works out of the box on any (semi-normal) distro, the most you’ll have to do is flick a switch in Steam.
Edit: Or in this case with the Sims install Lutris I guess, since it’s an EA game, but that also isn’t much more difficult
That’s fair, I’m a bit uninformed on wine and proton’s roots. However I’d argue that for someone like OPs girlfriend, a somewhat-immutable atomic based distro like bazzite might be better. Especially if it’s only used for gaming and YouTube 🤷♂️
But different strokes for different folks, so perhaps they’d be better off just installing steam on their distro of choice 👍
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It’s not fully immutable like steamos. But yes I do see your point, it could be confusing.
Use an immutable distro so even if she breaks it it’s easily fixed
Install win 10 LTSC
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history Windows 10 ltsc 1809 will be supported until late 2029 if you or someone you know is set on continuing to use Windows 10
Is she stupid?
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If all she uses the computer for is playing Sims 4, another option is just let her continue to use Windows 10. If she’s running it through Steam she’s probably got another 3-4 years before that stops working.
As others have suggested, I’ll probably just throw LTSC on it and call it a day. That’s what I did for my DJ laptop (the mixing hardware isn’t compatible with Linux), and it works phenomenally. It’s the perfect Windows OS for a single-use PC.
I have Linux on a jumpdrive can I install it on my main drive without it effecting my other drives?
Only the drive you install it on will be affected, but the other drives likely won’t be formatted to work with Linux.
Then how do I upgrade to Linux on my gaming computer.
Actually, Linux does support NTFS, although you won’t be able to run executables from it. I suggest getting an external HD/SSD to make a backup of all of your drives, then proceed with the switch to Linux.
Are you just wanting to back up save files? I agree with the other person here, just backup the files that matter to you onto an external drive and then install Linux
Dude I have no external hard drive that can store all the stuff saved on my two separate drives. No way to back all that up.
Buy one. It’s like 100$ and you’ll have a backup solution.
Guess I should will need at least a 3 terabyte one.
I always had a fat32 partion available for sharing stuff when i did dualbooting. Just for saving some stuff, but limited to 4 gb files then. Ntfs works as well so either partion or separate drive
It’s called dual-booting, and yes there are so many tutorials availiable. But you have to be a little more careful in that process. I do dualboot but almost never uses windows. I have heard situation where windows updates messing linux installs on same drive. The safest route might be to do what others suggested but it is possibe to install that way. Be careful with partitioning and formatting. You also have to determine the sizes for each partitions yourself too
I think so?
This is me. I’ve always been too lazy to switch (I have some of the worst hardware for it. I’m running my old surface pro into the ground and have hardly any internal storage so hard to dual boot for testing).
But now, well hey, Windows 11 is stupid, windows 10 has been spying since forever.
Linux it is, thanks Microsoft for giving me the push I needed.
You know, later in the year. When I have to.
I’m only human
I mean, what do you expect them to say?
“Time to install Linux, here’s how you chose a kernel:”
If I was responsible I’d learn about that stuff now but that sounds like an October 13 problem tbh
Get that dual boot going, you can learn now and switch later.
I got a dual boot going so I could try Linux and have a windows fallback. Mint went so smoothly for me I never used my windows boot.
Same. I took the plunge a few weeks ago and have been super happy. Got my wife switched over too, now just my kid is left
You’re right, I was just reluctant because my PC is really old and I was worried adding more stuff would just make it even more sluggish.
I asked my favorite AI and it told me not only was that wrong, but the opposite is probably true lol
Yep, linux runs way lighter than Windows and will probably run much snappier than you expect.
Innit 😂
What is October 13, besides being the day before my birthday?
Maybe they were referring to the Microsoft Halloween documents? Which were leaked on October 31 and was basically a manifesto against FOSS in general and specifically against Linux calling it “communist” software.
Oct 14 is last day of support for security updates without paying extra.
Oct 15 will be the day of Linux for sure
Instructions unclear, now I’m using the Windows terminal to launch Ubuntu and also have it running in Hyper-V. How does that help me if my windows is out of support? /s
Why does this exist lol
On the one hand, rare Microsoft w to help users transition to their competitor.
On the other, they kinda yadda yadda over probably the biggest and most important part: choosing which of the billion distros is best for your needs and preferences…
The distro choice isn’t that difficult, as if you have experience with Linux you know what you need, and if you don’t, just choose any beginner-friendly distro (probably Ubuntu flavors and Mint).
It would be funny if they struck a deal with Canonical to start offering an upgrade to Ubuntu 24.04 using some of the same dark patterns they use with Windows 11
“Trade it”
TO FUCKING WHOM? The whole point is that you made it useless.
(Unless this is Microsoft providing some free advertising for Linux)
Trade it in.
In other words, someone may be willing to pay you for parts, rather than you just getting nothing for it (recycling).
They are not going to recommend you use an alternative OS, and probably not because they’re worried about market share, but because they then have some responsibility for every time a person fucks up a Linux install.
In other words, someone may be willing to pay you for parts,
Except for the parts that Windows obsoleted. Not saying that they’re valueless, but they certainly tanked the value of otherwise useful parts.
SELL IT TO WHO, BEN? AQUAMAN???
My thoughts exactly. Didn’t think anybody would get the reference.
Time to encourage people to switch to Linux instead
If Linux had more support for games I would
Games aren’t much of an issue anymore, it’s the other software that keeps me from switching
Games with kernal anti-cheats sadly are the main issue still
Nah, the real problem is people willing installing rootkits on their computer because anticheat is somehow very important…
I don’t believe kernal anti-cheats add enough value for the risk they add but I still enjoy the games.
You’re begging to get hacked by installing that garbage
Ahyes, most sensible answer I’ve gotten on this topic as of yet
glad to help
Me spending 4 hours last night trying to get a repack to install in lutris for it to crash every 5 mins xD
Just play steam games. Then it’s only 90 minutes every other night of troubleshooting
(Mostly satire, proton has gotten incredible. I still have a windows install on my PC for gaming but I honestly don’t know the last time I’ve had an issue on my steam deck)
looks at empty wallet after paying for rent and food for the month :P
Yeh proton is pretty good and I know things are way better than they ever were before but things still aren’t always simple for people with no experience of Linux :)
Tbh, the only problems I ever had with gaming on Linux was:
- Nvidia driver bullshit
- Couldn’t do multiplayer on one indie game
Gaming on Linux is like 98% of the way there imo. It was overall a good experience, and we’ve got plans to switch the big family gaming computer to Linux when MS starts pushing their live service windows 12 crap
looks at empty wallet after paying for rent and food for the month :P
continues to choose a paid platform over an arguably-superior free alternative
I may have misunderstood, I was interpreting your comment to say that you were sticking with Windows — a paid commercial platform — while complaining about the cost of software.
Lol wut, my wallet is empty hence why I’m using repacks and my initial post was about the frustration of getting them to run on Linux… So what are you on about?
Oh no! Your pirated game isn’t working properly! Let’s blame the OS!
When did I once “blame the OS”? Just because I am frustrated with not being able to get it running I never once said it was the fault of the OS. In fact the opposite, I care about continuing to use the OS and that is why I spent so long troubleshooting my issue…
It was a sarcastic jab. I don’t agree with software piracy in general, that’s all.
I’ve been gaming on Linux for close to two years now. I believe there have been two games that actually caused some issues in getting them to run. But for the most part Proton does everything out of the box. And especially older games work way better than on Windows. There are no problems with compatibility mode or deprecated WinAPI-Calls. It just works.
The only thing I would advise is to install Steam and all your other launchers via Lutris. That will save you some hassle.
When’s the last time you tried?
I’ve been gaming on bazzite and haven’t found a game that doesn’t work. Haven’t had to touch a command line or anything, everything has been stable out of the box
How about Valorant? Its basically the only game (+ rainbow six siege / PUBG potentially, idk if these work) blocking me from switching. I know all my other games will work without issue cause they run on my steam deck as well.
EA’s fancy new kernel level anti-cheat is plaguing battlefield games. Also Rockstar broke GTA:O with their Anti-cheat (even though the Anti-cheat they use supports Linux)
The issue is that the Linux playerbase is so small, but its a self fulfilling prophecy. Players don’t play on Linux cause of the issues and the issues are there cause there are not enough players on Linux.
This simply isn’t true. Fragpunk, a brand new title, works without a single modification on Linux. It takes a negligible amount of effort for the developers, often just a single toggle in the anticheat config.
Depends on the anti-cheat bud
Bazzite runs really badly
Funny because I tried 4 different distros before I found one that would load on my laptop… Bazzite.
Same here
What games don’t work?
Most of the time, the issue is the drm on games or anticheat.
Ironically SteamOS is based on Arch Linux lol
If yoy have a fairly recent gpu, windows games run fine on linux. The exception is games with agressive anti-cheat.
If yoy have a fairly recent gpu, windows games run fine on linux.
I’ve been using my nearly 8-year-old GPU (an AMD Vega 56) in Linux just fine for nearly 8 years (i.e., since the day I bought it). Even in the first few years, before Proton existed, I had been playing Windows games on it using plain old WINE via PlayOnLinux.
The even older GPU I used to use before that (an AMD Radeon R7 260X) is still installed in my Linux home server, and I would expect to be able to play Windows games on it just fine too (at least in terms of compatibility, if not raw performance of decade-plus-old hardware).
All that is to say, I’m confused about what you mean by “fairly recent.”
Isn’t that counter to telling people to switch because their computer is too old for win 11?
Everyone should try it out by all means. I’d like everyone to use linux. All I’m conveying is my own experience. If you have an ancient GPU, and things are seemingly running fine on windows, you might yet find that it does not run fine on linux. I guess I should have emphasised that I am refering to hardware from a decade ago.
Yes but it is more “the manufacturer decided not to pay us to test it” rather than “it actually won’t work”
I’m not a huge gamer myself but the handful of games I do like to play every now and then all run on Linux.
Same here
Real, Valorant is the only game really keeping me from Linux at this point. Steam with proton has really improved linux gaming
Dude…c’mon now. Check my history. I am NOT a linux defender. I am more along the lines of a linux user mocker. I find the OS to be confusing, but I find the userbase to just be SO…SO mockable. Just making fun of linux brings them out in droves. And it’s so funny to point out how the whole OS is clearly terminal mandated to enjoy the OS. Just say something like that, and you’ll twist somebodies knickers.
That being said, of all the things that are legitimately awful about linux, you chose the GAME SUPPORT??? My god. Steam is THE storefront on PC. They have a vested interest in helping linux’s development, as long as that development goes towards making games work. The steamdeck is literally their financial incentive to make certain that your claim isn’t close to being true.
And sure, you could say you disagree with Steam’s practice of LICENSING you a game. Not selling. There is a difference. I get it. That is something that is in itself a problem, but that also doesn’t relate to your issue. Because even if you stayed on Windows, you’d still have to buy from Steam. They’re just as dominant on Windows, as they are on linux.
So, you COULD buy from GOG. The issue is, they specialize in retro games. So, their library may have massive gigantic gaps in titles. But again, this would also be true on Windows.
So…yeah, I don’t know how you would defend linux game support being lackluster.
I actually agree with most of what you’re saying but you could try to sound less insane. 😅
I had to check which comment you were referencing. I thought it was going to be the one where I said how hot it would be if Taylor Swift wore a strap-on, and made Mr Feenie (the teacher from boy meets world) her bitch. But about linux gaming? Me? Insane sounding? :O
username checks out.
I don’t like how you worded this because you overlook the fact that games with a kernal anti-cheat don’t work on Linux. This is the only reason I haven’t switched over yet. The only arguments people make is “just play other games” which is not helpful at all and suggesting dual booting which I’d have to do what? Daily? Maybe twice a day? Whats the use of having Linux then?
which game?
Valorant
ew
no, i’m kidding. that one’s completely on riot, their other games worked fine on linux until they turned that feature off. it’s shitty behaviour and they’re basically the only ones doing it.
100% its just riot being an ahole but its still the reason I’m not switching
Unless you use something other than iOS or Android, you’re also a *nix user. Have fun lol
Check out distros like Pop!_OS or Nobara. Linux gaming has come a long way recently due to Valve going all in on linux for the Steam Deck. Frankly even just the standard mainline distros aren’t terrible for gaming these days tbh.
I can’t get the more elaborate functions of my common Logitech mouse to work properly. And Linux systems like to cause my computer to periodically hang for some reason. In Windows, it used to BSOD, and I managed to fix the issue in Windows but it seems impossible for me to fix in Linux because of how vague of an issue it is.
Sounds like a bad piece of hardware if it spans OS’s.
Wouldn’t surprise me, but the point was that it’s fixable in Windows but not the Linux distros I have tried.
I’d ask which ones you’ve tried but I can tell you already made up your mind.
So far I’ve tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Pop OS. Although I only briefly tried Pop OS. Didn’t stick around long enough to see if it would have issues as well. There were other issues with that one that I can’t quite remember…I think it was that often the OS would decide not to boot. Something about a weird compatibility issue with the BIOS or something.
Hmm. All Debian based. I wonder if something not Debian based would work.
As much as I dislike Windows, it’s incredibly uncommon for it to blue screen unless there’s some kind of hardware fault. And if it’s happening in Linux too, you’ve got bad/dying hardware.
In Linux, if your system is hanging for a bit then coming back, then it’s probably a drying hard drive.
One thing you can check with is Burn In Test on Windows. It will stress all the individual components and tell you what’s failing.
Like I said, my computer no longer has BSODs in Windows after some settings I changed. I think I just ended up reducing the max percentage of the processor usage or something and it worked great after.
I do remember when I first got the laptop, it was frustrating because it would BSOD with relative frequency. I was very frustrated with the manufacturer…because the laptop would always pass hardware benchmark tests and the BSODs were random, so they refused to look at it under warranty. Errors were always super vague but primarily seemed to point toward the video card. The video card is integrated and not its own dedicated card.
I don’t think I have ever tried that particular set of texts before, though. I tried googling it…is it the one by Pass Mark? If so, I’ll check it out, thanks.
Re: hanging in Linux…no, the system would completely freeze up and never recover until I manually powered down the system. Interestingly, I found some other users stating that they had this issue with Firefox because of some resources issue or something. So I planned to try to switch to Chrome, but got frustrated with the features mouse not being compatible anyway. So I left it at that.
Do you remember what you fixed when you fixed it on the window side? Asking because what you’re describing almost sounds like you have a bad driver, which would explain why your Linux side would also have a similar problem, IE locking up completely auddenly, if it had the same bad driver and interacted with the hardware the same way causing a similar crash.
Honestly, if it’s fixable in the windows it’s definitely fixable Linux. It just might take a little bit more extra work to figure it out.
Just buy a working mouse, stupid
The basic mouse features work, stupid. It’s the gesture button/features that don’t work, stupid. No one has come up with good support for anything other than basic mouse features on Linux, stupid.
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Hold on to your butts.
Big influx of Linux-compatible office PCs hitting eBay soon.
This is the biggest garbage a tech company did to almost 256 million PCs in use and fully working. I installed Linux Mint on all three PCs I own. Free and works far better than I thought.
I took the last message I got from them as an invitation to ditch Windows for Linux. Now I wish I did that earlier!
“But don’t learn about Windows 10 LTSC IoT!”
if i remember correctly, some ltsc versions will get updated until 2029
“Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021” should be getting 10 years of updates, so until 2031.
The OneDrive plug at the end is *chefs kiss*
I love how in a world where we banned straws we are somehow OK with Microsoft pushing people to recycle their old but otherwise adequate system for what, to the vast majority of people, are some paper thin security advantages.
Anybody who asks me about Windows 10’s EOL date will be introduced to the option of using Linux before i’ll help them select a replacement system. Especially if they literally only use a browser there really is no reason to go through hoops or spend money to stick with Windows.
